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An Enlightened Look at an Over-Lighted World

Saige writes "Every night, as darkness descends, countless street lamps and lights turn on to keep the darkness at bay, bathing countless square feet of the planet in light that sometimes rivals daytime. But has anyone stopped to consider what effect all this light may have on people and animals that have evolved to fit an environment where a significant part of the 24 hour day is spent in lightless conditions? Some scientists have, and they are claiming that all this light is causing numerous problems."

38 of 522 comments (clear)

  1. Sensationalism... by calebb · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "...a growing body of research suggests that excessive exposure to [artificial] night light can ... even trigger deadly hormonal imbalances in humans."

    riiiiight.... That's why everyone that lives in Alaska, north of the arctic circle, dies when they reach puberty. Man, what would life be like without those deadly hormonal imbalances due to excessive light during the summer in Alaska?

    Seriously though, I think the bigger problem is from the lack of light! If you go to those same regions (north of the arctic circle), you'll find abnormally high suicide rates during the winter due to depression from the excessive darkness.


    ."..people around the world use more than 2.2 quadrillion watt-hours of electricity every year for lighting, at a cost of about $200 billion."

    Ok, I agree that this is an incredible waste of energy. Lets keep our motives honest though! If we're trying to save money & our environment, then it's a great idea - but don't tell me that excessive light is killing people.

    1. Re:Sensationalism... by DaveTibet · · Score: 5, Interesting


      Seriously though, I think the bigger problem is from the lack of light! If you go to those same regions (north of the arctic circle), you'll find abnormally high suicide rates during the winter due to depression from the excessive darkness.


      As Mikka Luttinen (the vocalist for a reasonably well-known Finnish black metal band Impaled Nazarene) put it: "In Finland, it's dark for ten months a year. You either start a band or cut your wrists".

      And here where I live (a northern part of Russia), street lamps get turned off after 10 pm in August, so getting home after long coding sessions becomes an exercise in celestial navigation.

    2. Re:Sensationalism... by RatBastard · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Excessive light in the summer is a bad problem, here in Alaska. While the long nights of winter cause depression in some people, the endless days of summer really screw with people's sleep patterns and cause other health issues as well. They don't get the same press as the winter cases of S.A.D., but they exist.

      --
      Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
    3. Re:Sensationalism... by at_kernel_99 · · Score: 3, Interesting
      "...a growing body of research suggests that excessive exposure to [artificial] night light can ... even trigger deadly hormonal imbalances in humans."

      riiiiight.... That's why everyone that lives in Alaska, north of the arctic circle, dies when they reach puberty. Man, what would life be like without those deadly hormonal imbalances due to excessive light during the summer in Alaska?

      Seriously though, I think the bigger problem is from the lack of light! If you go to those same regions (north of the arctic circle), you'll find abnormally high suicide rates during the winter due to depression from the excessive darkness.

      You rebutted your own argument. As the article mentioned, living organisms (humans, for instance) have evolved to expect certain levels of light & darkness. It is the lack or disruption of these cycles that has the potential to effect humans & other life forms adversely. Like people that whack themselves due to SAD (seasonal affective disorder). The article (did I say RTFA?) mentions higher rates of breast cancer in women who work the night shift - they don't get a regular dose of darkness that their bodies expect.

    4. Re:Sensationalism... by wolftone · · Score: 5, Interesting

      regarding the over- and underlit situations you describe in the polar regions: we humans didn't evolve to live there, and therefore our circadian rhythms are not programmed to deal with polar extremes. of course, the article referring to 100% death rates of all people that get too much light would lend credence to your theory...

    5. Re:Sensationalism... by BFKrew · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It is not quite as simplistic as you make out.

      For a start, light at night makes it difficult to sleep at night. Try having a streetlight outside your bedroom window and you will quickly (as I found out!) find your sleep patterns are disturbed as you wake up easier and therefore find it difficult to sleep.

      Consider that for many of us in major cities, we cannot view the natural beauty of space. Our views are blocked by artifical lights that stop us from seeing the sights our ancestors looked upon and first asked the great philosophical questions.

      You imply that light is a good thing. It isn't. Well, not always. Of course we need light, but it needs to be used appropriately.

      Artificial light isn't a replacement for natural light. Aside from the voluminous amounts of electricity a lot of it wastes it does cause problems for people.

      Daylight is a good thing for animals, plants and humans on the planet. For people who live in northern Europe and the US/Canda there are higher incidencies of suicide, alcoholism and drug abuse than there are in places which recieve more natural light, and this has been attributed to a lack of natural light. Artifical light just isn't the same. You could have 12 hours of artifical light in a polar region and it wouldn't make any difference.

      On a small, and possibly more irrelevant scale to you, consider the number of insects that congregate around lamp posts thinking the worlds most beautiful fly/wasp/bee/moth/whatever is in front of them. In time, it will affect their and predators natural actions!

      It is very easy to mock and joke about this, but it is a very, very important issue for a lot of people, plants and animals! :)

    6. Re:Sensationalism... by killthiskid · · Score: 4, Interesting

      And here where I live in the midwest America, there are still towns with all white lighting. I hate the bland desynthazing effect of high power sodium lighting, but that seems to be the norm these days.

      I remember being a kid and driving through the country side at night... we're talking 1 yard light every 2-3 squares miles here, and the slow change when those lights started to go from white to yellow. I'd say the ratio is up to 9 sodium to every 1 white lights these days.

      I have friends that bought a few acres in the country, and the first thing they did was replace the sodium bulb in their yard light back to a white one.

      Sodium orange lighting sucks.

      To keep things on topic... what color are the street lights in your area of Russia? Do you have white or sodium?

    7. Re:Sensationalism... by abhisarda · · Score: 4, Insightful
      "Last year, Calgary, Alberta (population 904,987), began putting some of these measures to the test. Engineers downsized the high-pressure sodium lights in several neighborhoods, substituted 100-watt for 200-watt bulbs and 150-watters for 250s, and installed flat lenses that focus the light downward. Streetlighting coordinator Barry Poon says elderly citizens howled that less lighting would boost crime. "But police told us there's no correlation between light levels and crime. Breaking and enterings actually occur in daytime when people aren't in." The results agreed: The crime rate in the areas with the new lights went unchanged. Now, Poon reports, "I'd say we get 10 positive responses for every negative one." Budget watchers were also pleased; the conversion, which will cost 4.5 million U.S. dollars, will save $1.3 million in electricity each year. "

      Maybe you should RTFA?

    8. Re:Sensationalism... by nacturation · · Score: 4, Funny

      And here where I live (a northern part of Russia), street lamps get turned off after 10 pm in August, so getting home after long coding sessions becomes an exercise in celestial navigation.

      Wait a sec... you mean, the stars don't navigate YOU?

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    9. Re:Sensationalism... by LMariachi · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Actually the sodium orange lighting is much less disruptive to night vision than the blue-white. In several New York City areas, including along the borders of Central park, they've installed these awful bright lights, apparently with the reasoning that more candlepower is better. The result is pools of bright broken up by impenetrably dark shadows, since one's eyes can't adjust fast enough. You get the same effect with xenon headlights on luxury SUVs -- they make everything a little brighter for their drivers, but blind everyone else on the road. Which is not to say that sodium orange is exactly aesthetically pleasing; gimme some nice 3200 tungsten any day.

      (There should be a degree sign after 3200. Thanks for stripping special characters, Slashcode.)

  2. Argh by mao+che+minh · · Score: 5, Funny

    I don't care if the excess light inhibits further evolution or causes intense sleep disorder - I just want to be able to use my $350 telescope without having to drive to the fucking boonies!

    1. Re:Argh by BWJones · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You joked about sleep disorders, but I used to run a sleep lab, and I can tell you this problem is a significant one. We have a direct path from our retinas to a subset of cells in a structure in the brain called the supra-chiasmatic nucleus. This pathway, the retino-hypothalamic pathway mediates light information to set our intrinsic sleep/wake rhythms that are normally set by light during the day. The advent of the lightbulb has transformed our society into a 24 hr/day affair that can cause problems with entrainment and now we have computer screens that we stare into until the wee hours of the night. Sleep disorders resulting from poor circadian entrainment can have influences on our lives that can be dangerous. Other than breathing or rem movement disorders, disorders of circadian entrainment can cause depression, failure to maintain alertness at important times (flying a plane or driving a car for instance), and recent evidence indicates that circadian period may also have an influence on the efficacy of pharmacologic treatments among other serious implications within our lives.

      --
      Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
  3. For more evidence, see S14E09 of Simpsons!! by phreak404 · · Score: 5, Funny

    From fox43.trb.com: Scuse Me While I Kiss The Sky March 30 03 SI-1409 British filmmaker Declan Desmond (guest star Eric Idle) heads to Springfield in order to film a documentary on the lives of American elementary students. Springfield Elementary is chosen as the school to be filmed and Bart and Lisa quickly find themselves at the heart of the film. Bart plans on showing how cool he is by hitting kids with dirt clods, but Nelson hits him first and Bart loses his status as a cool kid. Things get worse for Bart when Nelson steals a hood ornament and becomes king of the schoolyard, prompting even Milhouse to tell Bart how big of a loser he is. Principal Skinner wants to show Desmond the more enlightened side of the school and introduces him to Lisa. However, Desmond isn't impressed and belittles her into thinking that her life has no direction and she'll never succeed. Lisa becomes depressed and heads to the Springfield Museum to find inspiration. After deciding Paleontology and Geology aren't for her, she's captivated by the planetarium and decides to devote herself to astronomy. Lisa convinces Homer to buy her a telescope and she sets off to discover the wonders of the heavens. But, much to her dismay she finds that Springfield's light pollution is impeding her ability to view the stars. Lisa starts a petition to rid the city of it's nighttime lights, but after Mayor Quimby shuts down the lights, crime soars and the residents demand more light. Quimby turns on so much light that night becomes day and no one can get any sleep. Bart and Lisa, with Homer's help, overload the power plant and bring night back to Springfield. An angry mob is about to tear the kids apart until a meteor shower shows them just how beautiful the night sky is. Anyone who's seen this episode can agree, those animals (and humans) were doing some weird stuff from all of that light! And we all know, if its on Simpsons, it must be true!

  4. evolution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Evolution has given us several adaptations that allow us to be in darkness as needed.

    I think they all revolve around configuring sendmail.

  5. Displacing Animals by TheIzzy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Building houses right on the animals homes is probably a lot worse for them than shining lights during the twilight hours. At midnight in my town we don't have coyotes and mountain lions roaming our streets; they stay out in what wilderness is left. And somehow I think my little wooden box has more to do with it than the light it emits.

  6. Note to all moth researchers by soundsop · · Score: 5, Funny

    From the article:

    "Never argue against something on behalf of moths," he warns. "People will just laugh at you. Talk about ecosystems instead."

    Point well taken ;)

  7. This is not a new phenomenon. by James+A.+A.+Joyce · · Score: 4, Informative

    I live in England and a popular BBC science TV programme, "Tomorrow's World" was doing reports on this phenomenon as far back as 1998/1999. If I recall correctly, they even asked viewers to do an informal study whereby they looked at the night sky through a toilet roll tube and counted the number of visible stars, then to send in that number and geographical location in so that they could figure out where light pollution was worst. As far as I can tell, the south of the country was a lot more afflicted than the north, with major cities (particularly London) often having no stars visible at all at some times.

    1. Re:This is not a new phenomenon. by sTalking_Goat · · Score: 3, Funny
      I grew up in one city or another for most of my life so you can imagine what a shock it was to me when I was 14 and visiting some distant relatives in rural Barbados (redunancy) when night fell and the sky lit up with stars from horizon to horizon. Really freaked me out. Its like that torture machine from hitchikers guide where they show you how small you are in the galaxy.

      Thats why I always carry a maglight.

      DOWN WITH DARKNESS.

      --

      My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle...

    2. Re:This is not a new phenomenon. by Omestes · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I know that the parent was funny, and supposed to be, but to me it high-lights (pun not intended) a serious problem. What happens when people get completely disconnected from the enviroment/universe. Get fully accustomed to a completely artificial condition, and prefer it. Are we becoming disconnected from who we are, where we came from, and what spiritual/intellectial/philosophical/political problems does this make for us as a species or culture.

      When we get disconnected from something we no longer respect it, we fear it, loath it. In cities we're disconnected from the enviroment, and see no qualms about destroying it except for the enviromentalism trend (which shouldn't be confused with an actual caring about the enviroment, hence the word 'trend'). So whats going to happen when we become completely disconnected from the heavens, and gleefully accept this. The stars have guided thousands of years human spirituality and philosophy, what happens when we loose that?

      I would consider most urbanites as severely mentally ill, with our odd paranoia about darkness. We must ALWAYS cloak ourselves in light and noise to protect us from ourselves and our enviroment. What are we REALLY afraid of?

      OT but related, ever go someplace nice and notice that they HAVE TO pipe noise into it, ALWAYS. Out here in Arizona in the Verde Valley there is a casino/resort with a WONDERFUL view of an ancient lake bed and pristine desert, looking out from the entrance way is just great, except the fact that there is CONSTANT piped music, it makes it impossible to EVER relax. The same goes for all this damn light everywhere, it becomes impossible to EVER relax, or dissassociate yourself from society, even for a second.

      Turn off all the lights, or light generating things (monitor, case mods, TV, whatnot), turn off all the sound, fans, whatnot, and look and listen. Odds are, if you live in a city or even a small town it will be noisy and bright. The only way to get away from it is to travel hundreds of miles away, and even then there are still flight paths and stupid tourists, lost urbanites, and partying teenagers.

      Sad. But then again I am a tech-savvy luddite.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
  8. Only a brief mention to the loss of the Milky Way by corebreech · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Throughout history all mankind was treated to this incredible sight, and now for most of us, it's gone.

    Some of my most memorable experiences were when I made it out to a deserted area, free of light pollution, and allowed to take in the night sky as it really is.

    What's the loss of that? It goes beyond seritonin levels... there's something we've lost that connects us to the universe, that can so easily awe us. What are the consequences of that on our psyches? On our very soul?

    I say a bunch of us should get together, pool our resources, and buy up a couple of thousand square miles of land and have it designated a no-light zone. Make it out in the desert somewhere, while it's still vacant. The only people allowed to travel/live there would be those who voluntarily consent to certain rules designed to keep light pollution down to zero. No driving at night for instance, or if you do, doing so using some sort of special equipment like night-vision goggles say. All windows would have to be equipped with zero-leakage blinds or curtains. No outdoor lighting of any kind, whatsoever.

    Call it Dark City. Like the movie, only darker (and hopefully more friendly people.)

    I wonder how many of us would want to live there?

    How many of us have actually gotten to see the night sky as it really is?

  9. I'd forgotten the stars were there by tarquin_fim_bim · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Having been a city dweller for more years than I care to remember, I recently had an assignment in Mongolia. I was working about 50 miles from the nearest group of tents, which is the closest thing you get to a village in that part of the world, and hundreds of miles fom the nearest town, I continuously found myself staring upwards muttering expletives to myself, a truly awsome sight. Perhaps soon to become one of the wonders of the ancient world.

  10. how to tell a funny by Tumbleweed · · Score: 4, Funny

    Okay, here's the joke I was gonna make, "Take back the night sky, Springfield!"

    See? That's all you had to do to get a funny. You're like the kid that turns in a 200 page essay when the teacher requests a 2 page book report. :)

  11. Holiday by Jason_says · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I think there should be a national star gazing holiday, when everyone one would turn off their lights and look up at the stars.

    the only reason i cant see the stars at night where i live is becuase of the lighting in a walmart parking lot, that is ten miles away(the parking lot is huge)

    so if we can convince walmart and the city to turn off every other one of their lights maybe we could see the stars, and if we did this nationaly once a year or so, then scientist could get a good view of the sky without all the light pollution

    yeah i know i cant spell

  12. Sea turtles also light sensitive by PoisonousPhat · · Score: 5, Interesting
    National Marine Fisheries Service:

    Artificial lighting can cause disorientation and misorientation of both adults and hatchlings. Turtle hatchlings are attracted to light, ignoring or coming out of the ocean to go towards a light source, increasing their chances of death or injury. In addition, as nesting females avoid areas with intense lighting, highly developed areas may cause problems for turtles trying to nest.

    Guess they missed the PBS special.

    --
    Losers choose to abuse the use of "loose".
  13. I have, and I only want to visit it occasionaly by YllabianBitPipe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yes the night sky is very pretty without the interference of lights. However, in my ordinary day to day existence, driving to work, trying to make a living, I can only imagine the horrible place night would be without artificial light. For one obvious example, driving a car would be impossible without headlights. Second, if you took away artificial light, people would be forced to adapt the work day to the hours of sunlight. Despite daylight savings time, in more northern areas like Washington, it's dark at 9 and dark at 5. So without artificial light, work would have to start at 10 and end at 4. Ain't gonna happen.

    So yeah, I agree with you, the night sky sure is pretty, but that ain't worth turning the whole society over. And I do think you'd be able to find a handful of people to go along with a "no light zone" but these are likely going to be the same people who want the cities burned, enjoy weaving pants out of hemp, think a space ship will take them to the next plane, and want men eradicated from the human race etc.

  14. Re: True... by calebb · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Very true. I'm sure those reasons are actually much more valid than the lack of light. I've read documentaries on small small villages in northern Canada & their economies don't really exist - they live off of whaling & seal oil. The kids hear enough about the rest of the world that they want to leave, but with no money, a lot of them don't think they can. So in some areas, the suicide rate is actually highest among teenagers / young adults. However, even with all these other factors, the suicides end up happening in the 'night' season.

    To tie this in to my original post, it's interesting that in areas/times where daylight levels are the lowest, death rates are much higher than in areas/times where daylight levels are the highest.

  15. Heat vs. Light by twisty · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's great to see the mention of the wattage and infrared inefficiencies of light sources, but it'd be better still to get numbers on what this does to global warming. If you think about the Terrawatts we're pouring into the atmosphere, there has got to be some measurable totals for temperature increase.

    Heat polution can be more direct than light pollution. Light pollution is measurable in how it impedes stargazing, and thanks to this study how it sickens the biosphere... but what of the heat expelled in the generation and consumption of all our electricity?

    Anyone flying in a plane at night knows there are a lot of billboards and lit buildings pointing their beams inefficiently into the night sky. I'd love to see some calculations on how many megacalories it takes to warm the earth's atmosphere a couple degrees. Chances are, we're literally consuming our own planet in wasted heat polution.

  16. Lighting 101 / Cost Savings of CFL's by calebb · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There's a good section in that article called 'Lighting 101,' with a few facts about different types of electric lights. Check it out if you didn't already.

    I live in a ~1000ft^2 duplex (three bedroom, three people) in a rural University town in Washington - electricty is relatively cheap compared to some cities. We pay 4.777 cents per KWH (First 600), 4.777 cents per KWH (601-1300), 5.718 cents per KWH (1300+)

    Last year, during a three month period, our average cost per KWH was 5.25 cents. Since I changed all our lights to CFL's, our average cost per KWH is 4.90 cents. (We're buying less @ 5.718 cents per KWH).

    We don't use all lights in our duplex equally, but for the sake of statistics, we save about $1 per month per CFL. (16 bulbs replaced = ~$16/month)

    I bought the CFL's at Costco for ~$4 each (large, 23watt, 100watt equiv) and ~$2 each (small, 13 watt, 60 watt equiv). The initial investment was ~$55 & It paid for itself in 4 months. Supposedly, these bulbs will last 7 years, but even if they last 1 year, they will save money, electricty & some Sockeye Salmon! (Hydroelectic power... some politicians swear they are responsible for declining salmon populations)

    In a region with more expensive electricity, you could save significantly more on lighting. If you can't stand the 'color' of fluorescent bulbs, you can do 50/50. Our dining room as two CFL's & one incandescent bulb.

    Well, this was almost off topic, but it's still within the scope of the article I think!

  17. NASA image of man-made light. by Alsee · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ah, a perfect opportunity to post a link to my favorite NASA photo! It is a composite image called the Earth at Night. It shows the intensity of man-made light on earth. The brighness level is a facinating combination of population density and economic development.

    An interesting feature is the the Nile river on the top right corner of Africa. Each bank of the river is densly populated, beyond that is uninhabitable desert. That makes it an insanely narrow bright white line in the middle of the pitch black desert.

    Another interesting feature is North/South Korea. They are just to the left of super-bright Japan. South Korea is a bright square just below North Korea. North Korea is a pitch-black area. The dividing line of bright to dark is like a knife-edge. North Korea is so dark it looks like empty ocean, making South Korea look almost like an island.

    North Korea and South Korea have roughly equal population density. The entire difference is due to development. South Korea is quite prosperous while North Korea is suffering famines while they allocate a crushing 30% of their gross national product to supporting the third largest army in the world (China has the largest, USA is second). North Korea says they want to "Liberate".

    -

    --
    - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    1. Re:NASA image of man-made light. by Kenneth-K · · Score: 3, Funny

      In other news, this image led to the capture and subsequent execution of an unidentified man by the north korean government for the posession of an itty bitty book light.

  18. pseudoscientific babble by maynard · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There's nothing 'insightful' about this post, it's simply an ideological diatribe maligning the work of real scientists without offering any kind of factual rebuttal. Several scientists and physicians (including a neuroendocrinologist) made many very specific claims about the effects of light pollution on humans, insects, and plankton. Your rebuttal is 'Yeah... Riiiiight.' I didn't read a single valid counterpoint to any of the claims presented in this article.

    You probably don't care about the plankton, insects, and other environmental effects presented, so let's get straight to the human outcomes listed: increased cancer rates among humans; dangerous breathing disorders during sleep; decreased attention during critical events such as driving, etc. Real scientists and clinicians made factual statements about problems they're seeing due to light pollution, and you simply toss it off as 'sensationalism'. Not a factual word about why they're wrong other than the implied 'it can't be'. That is the argument of a ideologue.

    You'll notice that the scientists interviewed didn't make policy recommendations, only the city planners interviewed did. You might also notice that none of the city planners recommended shutting off the lights, only a move toward a different kind of city lighting. And, to top it off, they're recommendations save money due to increased energy efficiency. Gee, that's 'sensationalism' for ya.

    From a factual standpoint, your argument simply doesn't stand muster. It's pseudoscientific babble based not on scientific study and open debate, but on derision of the scientists for their conclusions; regardless of the data they collected. Your skepticism is poorly placed given the argument you presented. JMO.

    --Maynard

  19. Re:White vs yello (was Sensationalism) by WasteOfAmmo · · Score: 3, Insightful
    It interesting that you have seen the switch from yellow to white street lighting and that you have liked it.

    Where I live (Saskatchewan, CA) I have watched the transition from white mercury lighting to yellow sodium lighting. At first I was concerned about reduced lighting, security, etc. but in the last two years of living 2 doors down from the street light I have grown to like the sodium lighting better. I should also mention that last summer the city upgraded the lighting in my area by installing more street lights (1 per half block vs 1 per block).

    I know find more then adequate lighting on the street without an excess in my backyard due to bleeding from bright white light sources. The new lights seem to have better shielding so as to light the street and not the neighborhood. Also the yellow lights do not provide as much of a distraction, fucus point, or blinding glare as the white lights when driving.

    Over all considering factors such as: security lighting, convenience lighting, driving, and yard privacy I have to say that the yellow lower lumen sodium lighting wins out in my mind.

    So far as farm yard lighting goes, I can understand wanting to light the yard up more as you have a much larger area to monitor for security purposes. Also we used the yard light on our farm as general lighting when trying to work in the late evening or at night. This is not the case for city street lights as typically each property owner has there own method of lighting their yard for their own purposes.

    As a final point on yard lighting, if I am just navigating my yard a night as opposed to working in it I will shut off the outside lights as I can see better (read as: more of the yard but less detail) with the general illumination from other light sources outside my yard (city lights, moon, etc.) then I can by flooding part of my yard with a flood light.

    Merlin.

  20. Ahh, to be nice and dark... by AvantLegion · · Score: 3, Funny
    ...just the way grues like it.

  21. Dark Sky Assoc. by athorshak · · Score: 3, Informative

    I haven't seen this mentioned yet. I would urge everyone concerned with this issue to become members of the International Dark Sky Association. They have wonderful information on the issue and are very active in trying to get light pollution laws enforced.

  22. Beauty of the sky by chill · · Score: 4, Informative

    Last month I drove from my old home (Orlando, FL) to my new one (Spokane, WA). I was amazed at the difference in the night sky between the two places.

    The last night of my drive, I stopped at Lookout Pass to camp for the night. Since it is summer, and the ski facilities are closed, there were only three cars besides myself up there.

    Lookout Pass is 4725 ft. up in the mountains, right on the border between Montana and Idaho (Exit 0 on I -90).

    Not a small town for miles, and not a city of mention for 50+ miles in any direction. Almost zero light pollution.

    I've never been able to see so many stars before. The Milky Way stood out and was easily visible. I was able to watch sattelites pass overhead. You can understand how the ancient Greeks saw the constellations -- it really helps when you can see the fainter stars.

    It is all out-of-sight, out-of-mind. Most people don't know what they are missing with all the light pollution.

    --
    Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
  23. Light and acoustics by adzoox · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Light also effects accoustics and sound. Flourescent light in particular has a noise cancelling effect on some tones. There was a study I saw on TV (not sure if it was PBS or Discovery) where kids actually retained more information being taught in a dimly lit room than in a bright one.

    Related: Has anyone ever been to MGM in Florida and done the THX sound effects studio? You sit in a pitch black room with headphones on and it sounds like you are actually getting a haircut, getting your hair blow dried (and you feel heat - but there's not any), + you get annoyed by a fly in the room ... I remember the voiceover saying that the darkness of the room tuned your senses - particularly your ears.

    --
    Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
  24. I got better uses for that power by bluGill · · Score: 3, Insightful

    True, but there are better uses for that power. My parents' water heater only turns on late at night, and then the hot water is stored for the next day. The power company controls this (for a big discount to my parents) to fill in the peak demands. They have in the past had the highest useable for the entire day be at 12:14am, when a lot of the load was this water heating!

    That is just one example use for all that power. There are others. Start thinking.

  25. Re:Stupidest thing ever by aziraphale · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Load of rubbish. Yes, power stations need to keep running for efficiency reasons (not safety reasons - you can turn off the turbines and just vent steam if you really don't want the energy coming out of a coal furnace or nuclear reactor). But we can do a lot better than streetlights as a tension load on the electricity grid. Why not, for example, pipe the power into a pumped storage station - use it to lift water up a mountain. Then the next day, let it run down through turbines to generate electricity when it's needed.

    Pumped storage is like a rechargable battery for the electricity network, and they can be pretty damned efficient at it. Instead of just burning off electricity all night because you have to generate it anyway, a good pumped storage network will let you pool about 60% of the generated electricity and let it go when you need it. And pumped storage stations can be brought online and switched off almost instantaneously - there's one in Wales (the electric mountain plant at Trawsfynnydd - basically a hollowed out mountain) that claims the fastest response time of any power station in the world - something like 6 seconds.