Oracle's Infrastructure Now Fully Linux-ized

mbadolato writes "An article over at InformationWeek reports Oracle is aggressively adopting Linux both internally and for its products, despite SCO Group's threats earlier this week that it may sue those who don't pay licensing fees to the company. Chuck Rozwat, an Oracle executive VP, says the company has moved its IT infrastructure to Linux, a year after CEO Larry Ellis issued the mandate. In the coming year, Oracle will move its base development platform to Linux, including putting the open-source operating system on the workstations of 8,000 developers"

Comments

Ellis?

[Anonymous Coward]

Since when did Larry Ellison drop the last two letters of his last name? Come on, editors...

Re:Ellis?

[The Old Burke]

I don't know about why the n is missing, but SCO has the exclusive right to use the o in their name.

SCO is no real threat

[The No Vlad Zone]

This move should prove to everyone that SCO's claims are complete BS. If a company with the resources like Oracle isn't bothered by their threats then we can assume that their lawyers told them that SCO's claims are baseless. Oracle's products are the mainstay of the database industry and moving to Linux shows that Microsoft does not in fact have a monopoly. If more Linux desktops are deployed Microsoft will become just another software company competing with all the others.

Re:SCO is no real threat

[buffer-overflowed]

Maybe they're taking a calculated risk. They could strongly suspect the claims are baseless, and even if they aren't it's not going to be resolved for a good 2-5 years.

When it is resolved, if SCO does win(and survives bleeding cash from legal fees), the infringing code will be removed and they're fine anyway. If the infringing code can't be removed [unlikely], then they're banking on Linux being a serious competitor around then anyway and worth the liscensing fees circa 2007.

I'd say it's a pretty safe bet.

Re:SCO is no real threat

[pong]

IMHO, there is one flaw in your analysis. Customer perception is very important so if Oracle expect the SCO law suit to hang around and get news coverage for a few years they sure as hell would not bet their money on linux.

Why is it that SCO show 80 lines of linux kernel source code that are identical to SCO Unix source code and keep claiming that there are hundreds of identical files. Files - not lines.

Re:SCO is no real threat

[mec]

Monday: Red Hat sues SCO.
Thursday: IBM sues SCO.
Friday: Oracle announces commitment to Linux.

This is a good way to do PR: a rolling wave from different sources.

Objectively, it's the same total amount of commitment to Linux whether everybody does it in one day or they do it three weeks apart. But this timing feeds the news cycle better.

I'm hoping that Google will issue a press release soon. And then a behemoth retailer, like Home Depot. And then a brokerage firm, like Merrill Lynch.

What'd they have before?

[groove10]

The article doesn't say what they were runnign before this switch. My hunch is that it was Solaris.

I get the feeling that most large desktop migrations happen from commercial UNIX to linux rather than from Windows to linux. That transition would seem much more difficult and costly.

Also are they using a distribution or are they "rolling their own"?

Re:What'd they have before?

[n3rd]

I get the feeling that most large desktop migrations happen from commercial UNIX to linux rather than from Windows to linux.

Actually Ellison (like McNealy) is a well know Microsoft hater. Althought Linux is one of the best developement environments available I wouldn't be suprised if the decision to swith to Linux was partially out of spite for Microsoft.

Re:What'd they have before?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm posting anonymously because I work for the company in question.

The major platform for development was Solaris (and still is at the current time for me and my group). There have been various projects ongoing for awhile now to migrate the development to be Linux based.
And to address the specific question about migrating from Solaris to Linux (not from Windows), there was a plan being deployed in various groups to change the development environment before the Linux plan. The earlier one was to move to small cheap Windows workstations as 'thin' (ha!) clients to rack Solaris machines.

So, the Linux-based plan still shows a large loss of potential Windows licenses (for all the MS-bashers out there).

Re:What'd they have before?

[Johnny Mnemonic]

Undeniably, a large loss for Sun, too. But this migration fails to demonstrate what many want: that a non-technical workforce can move from Windows to Linux. You have neither a non-technical workforce, nor a workforce that is trained and comfortable with Windows.

Wake me when Geico moves their entire org, including sales agents, to Linux. Until then, while these moves are good, it only demonstrates the preference of engineer types, not marketing types. Unfortunately, there are a lot more marketing types than engineer types in the world.

Re:What'd they have before?

[nettdata]

Dude-

Don't make the assumption that everybody at Oracle is a code writer... there are LOTS, and I mean LOTS, of non-technical people working there. Just because it's a software company doesn't mean that every, or even most, employees are technical. And, most of them were initially running Windows.

Hell, Larry himself will be running Linux instead of Windows, as that's no different than all the marketing people, product managers, doc writers, etc., that are not "technical".

That's about as much of a non-technical workforce as you can get in modern business, even though they may have technical components.

It's not like the coders are going to drop everything and teach people how it all works.

8000 developers?

[YetAnotherName]

...and they still can't make an sqlplus client that supports readline.

Yes, I'm trolling. You would too, if you had to deal with Oracle on a daily basis---contractual obligations, you see. (Where's my MySQL when you need it?)

Re:8000 developers?

[Papineau]

Could this have something to do with readline being GPL'd, and Oracle not wanting to release sqlplus under it?

Of course, readline (although it already exists) is something, functionnally, which could be reimplemented relatively easily by 8000 developpers.

Re:8000 developers?

[Permission Denied]

Could this have something to do with readline being GPL'd, and Oracle not wanting to release sqlplus under it?

Most likely.

The readline folks are real fanatics. They've continually denied requests to put readline under LGPL - they want to make sure the only things that use readline are GPLed. That is, they're doing this on purpose.

Because of this debacle, the *BSD camp was forced to come up with the editline library for all their stuff. And then you have stuff like Sun's dbx that has its own readline replacement. And Oracle's SQL client, and Sybase's isql, and sqsh, ....

Now, it's not quite trivial to write a readline replacement because you have to deal with all sorts of crufty, non-portable *nix terminal arcana, but it's also not difficult. The problem is that all readline replacements are incompatible with each other. You can customize readline applications through .inputrc - this is really cool because you can make one binding and it works in bash, gdb, your (GPLed) console mp3 player, etc. However, these bindings won't carry over to FreeBSD's cdcontrol program or Sun's dbx.

The GPL also means that I can't use readline for some program I write for a client because these programs are usually internal company things that the company owns and can license however they want - they won't pay me if I stipulate that the code I wrote (which belongs to them) must be licensed under GPL for such a trivial reason. Since my clients won't be too happy paying me to write stupid terminal IO routines, I'm forced to either use plain old fgets or use editline, which (IMHO) is not as nice as readline.

The fanaticism is costing the *nix community some useful functionality, which is kind of sad.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Linux on the desktop

[chunkwhite86]

"Oracle will move its base development platform to Linux, including putting the open-source operating system on the workstations of 8,000 developers"

Maybe this will answer the question "Is Linux ready for the desktop?" for other major corporations. Yes, a developer workstation is a "desktop" if it's their main business machine.

A heavyweight desktop-linux push is what is going to get businesses off the proprietary MS office file formats. When people realize that they are tied to .DOC .XLS and .PPT - and not tied to Windows per se, this is what will cause the widespread adoption of a truely open business document file format.

Oracle in Austin, TX

[Yiliar]

I went for an interview at Oracle in Austin. Being a SUNOS/Solaris person for over 15 years, it was an eye opener to see the Austin facility was nearly 100% Linux.

When I suggested at the beginning of the interview that a person would have to be crazy to want to administer 8,000 diskless Linux servers tied to NetApps storage, the interview prompty ended. :)

My conclusion, however, was that Oracle is indeed committed to Linux. In fact they are betting the company on it.

QANTAS, Linux, Sun, Oracle and MS

[thelandp]

I work at QANTAS (Australia's largest Airline), and we're using Oracle alot, but not using Linux anywhere - we are basically a Solaris shop. The next major changes to our software infrastructure involve commiting more fully to Oracle. That may involve switching to Linux for servers, but probably not for desktops - they will stay as Win NT 4.0.

Now, I think Linux is technically great, and I hate the business practices of Microsoft. However, experience at QANTAS says that for us, Linux is not really any threat to Microsoft, it is much more dangerous to Sun. If we switch over to Linux here, we'll be doing Sun out of business, and Microsoft is unscathed. How is that good for the world?

Adoption of Linux on the desktop is a much bigger threat to Microsoft, and much harder to achieve because of inertia.

So with all the cost savings they're getting

[Flower]

by deploying linux, does it mean they'll pass that along to their customers?

Sometimes I just crack myself up.

Re:Hey SCO!

[hedley]

I am sure they got one of the 1500 letters sent out. Them and nVidia are two very big linux shops in the CA Bay Area. nVidia in particular has video of their data centre touting how many 1000's of SMP machines they have.

I am sure SCO hears the dinner bell. Too bad all they are going to eat is the ashes of their stock certificates.

MySQL/Oracle = Apple/Orange

[SuperBanana]

(Where's my MySQL when you need it?)

Comparing MySQL to Oracle is like comparing a leaking dinghy to the Queen Elizabeth II. MySQL may be used by a lot of companies, but it's still a joke compared to even other open source SQL databases like PostgreSQL. Not to mention it seems like they're always having licensing issues(to the extent that MySQL support has been pulled from the PHP 5.0 development branch).

You want a serious, professional, stable database? Oracle, DB2, Sybase, etc. No money? Try PostgreSQL. MySQL substitutes some crazy locking in place of real transaction support. PostgreSQL not only doesn't need to lock tables for most operations, but it also supports very sophisticated locking. Oh, and did I mention PostgreSQL is object-oriented? The only two thing PostgreSQL is lacking is good replication support in the main release(it's still in development, I believe). That and full text searching is kinda funky(although very sophisticated).

I've seen so many "performance problems" that were due almost entirely to lack of proper database functionality in MySQL.

I can hear the scriptkiddies(PHP scriptkiddies) now chanting "it's lighter weight, it's faster". Guess what? You can make PostgreSQL just as fast if you turn off various sanity checks(these checks are better than what MySQL does) AND the more complete implementation of SQL actually lets you do more powerful(or perhaps efficient) queries. Who finishes a house first, the guy with a hammer and saw, or the guy with a truck full of tools?

Re:MySQL/Oracle = Apple/Orange

[kcbrown]

The only way to edit a column definition is to delete it and readd it with the correct properties, which means taking the DB offline, copying the whole table to a temporary table, deleting the offending column, readding the column, and then moving all of the data back into the old table from the temporary one, and now since your columns are in a different order, you have to play fun games to get that to work right.. then you can delete the temporary table, and put the DB back online, PURE TORTURE.

You, sir, are full of shit. Witness (the output isn't exactly what you'd see because of the crappy lameness filter and the limited Slashdot HTML options):

kevin> \d
No relations found.
kevin> create table foo (x integer, y varchar(20), z float);
CREATE TABLE
kevin> insert into foo (x, y, z) values (2, 'hello', 20.5);
INSERT 16997 1
kevin> select * from foo;
x y z
2 hello 20.5
(1 row)

kevin> begin;
BEGIN
kevin> alter table foo add column z2 integer;
ALTER TABLE
kevin> update foo set z2 = z;
UPDATE 1
kevin> alter table foo drop column z;
ALTER TABLE
kevin> alter table foo rename column z2 to z;
ALTER TABLE
kevin> select * from foo;
x y z
2 hello 20
(1 row)

kevin> \d foo
Table "public.foo"
Column Type Modifiers
x integer
y character varying(20)
z integer

kevin> rollback;
ROLLBACK
kevin> \d foo
Table "public.foo"
Column Type Modifiers
x integer
y character varying(20)
z double precision

So: not only can you do the operation without taking the database down, you can do it while within a transaction, and even rollback the entire change if you screw up!

This is under PostgreSQL 7.3.3.

Try that with your vaunted MySQL.

More info

[mbadolato]

There's another article here which offers a little more information, including the following, regarding PHP support:

Rozwat also provided new details on the launch of the Oracle Open Source Development Center -- an online service available through Oracle's online developer network, OTN. The new service will provide developers with software, sample code and extensive tutorials, free-of-charge. Additionally, the company has extended its support for scripting language PHP, including full integration and shipping with Oracle 9i Application Server.

"It is our goal to be a value-add to the developer community," added Rozwat. "With the development of the OSDC and our extended support of PHP, we continue to invest in the Linux development community. This will be an ongoing priority for us." Rozwat also noted that there have been more than 1 million downloads of Oracle software for Linux, illustrating the extensive, growing use of Oracle together with Linux.

But what happens when open source comes after them

[The Revolutionary]

Sure, it's easy for companies to see open source as a platform or environment for their products, but what happens when open source starts to move into their territory?

Of course Microsoft doesn't like open source solutions. Open source solutions are already, and are increasingly so, in direct competition with the products that make up their revenue stream.

Not all of these companies that are jumping on the open source bandwagon are going to be understanding and cooperative when open source comes knocking on their door: their revenue stream.

In fact, I'd venture to guess that the majority of them will be anything but understanding and cooperative. These companies are not adopting open source solutions because they want to advance the common good. They are not doing this out of community spirit. These companies are jumping on the open source bandwagon because they see it as a good economic decision; this is the bottom line.

When their bottom line is threatened, they will turn around, lash out, and bite the hand that feeds them.

They may not succeed, but they will try, and I for one know that I do not want to be the developer contributing to software that infringes whatever wealth of patents they are holding when that time comes.

...at least not if I can be held liable, which, if I am a start-up distributing this competing open source solution as part of a package to support my service-based company, certainly I can be.

I do not trust our new corporate bed-fellows.

I do not trust our legal system to protect me from them.

I do not trust our policy makers to even care about protecting me from them.

Oh that I could. Fortunately, or unfortunately, people like me just don't matter in this country of ours.

Well, if nothing else, at least our votes can help the existing power structure project the illusion that we ever had a real, actualizable opportunity to have our interests represented.

And that should be good enough for me, right?

Right?

?

Re:But what happens when open source comes after t

[roystgnr]

Sure, it's easy for companies to see open source as a platform or environment for their products, but what happens when open source starts to move into their territory?

They either freak out and commit SCOicide, or they try and find more territory.

So far Oracle seems to have been doing the latter. It's not as if there aren't any open source databases, it's just that people trust Oracle to provide features and performance beyond what the alternatives currently deliver. If the alternatives catch up, then Oracle will have to produce something else to make their products more valuable.

And really, is there anything wrong with that? It isn't exactly common economic practice to make a product once and then expect to sell the same product over and over again until the end of time. The Econ 101 rule that price tends toward marginal cost is oversimplified, but it's not that far off, and with software your marginal cost is zero. Even if you never had price warring competitors or open source alternatives to worry about, eventually you run out of customers, who don't need to purchase your product twice because it never wears out.

So Larry Ellison is the new Hero???

[btakita]

Hmm,

Here's Larry Ellison. He told us he wants to buy out People Soft and lay off a bunch of people.
But, He's the hero because he likes Linux (more like he hates Microsoft and will use anything to make him top DAWG).

And then look at the "evil" Bill Gates.
He donated $15 Billion to charity and has plans to employ 5000 people.

Yes, I'm happy that Linux is being widely used, but Is it fair to create such a dichotomy of Good and Evil??

Will we demonize Bill Gates and trumpet Larry Ellison as a hero? Aren't they the at least the same breed?

And then, are we any better than Bill Gates? All the "wonderful" things we "would" do if we had his money.

I hate to throw religion into this, but don't judge your neighbor for having a speck in his eye when you have a plank in your own.

Tux Crossing

[hackrobat]

Folks, check out these signs all over Oracle HQ if you happen to pass by that area. They seem to have been around for quite a while.