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Fry's Electronics - Selling Linux... Or Not?
TheMadPenguin writes "For those of you who may not be aware, Fry's Electronics has been selling a Linux desktop PC loaded with ThizLinux for quite a while now. The question is, are they really selling it? The answer is a definitive no."
The thing that really scares me after hearing this is that the rest of the computer sales world is, by and large, well below Fry's in terms of knowledge and selection. The Fry's I frequented in Sacramento was full of people who could tell me the average failure rates of the brand name RAM vs. their generic stuff, whether a 5400 or 7200 RPM hard drive would make a difference, etc. When I moved to Washington, DC and found that the best computer store around was MicroCenter -- a horribly overpriced, understaffed, and generally terrible store -- I about cried. More to the point of this story, though, if Fry's is this clueless about Linux, I hate to see the rest of the computer stores out there attempting to sell it. Heaven knows that may cause a step *backwards* in terms of adoption by the general public!
How To Get Humans To Mars
I get the feeling you've probably never come across one of these machines and you just wanted to show off your impressive Linux knowledge.
... it's how you say it. The sign over the display PC reads (paraphrased by article's author):
This computer is running the Linux operating system. It is easily removed and can be replaced by Windows 98 or higher by formatting the hard drive and loading Windows. We will perform this service for you for a fee.
Had they said that it's running ThizLinux and could be changed to any PC OS, I might be a bit more understanding. But they're just trying to sell computers without the MS tax, and increase their OS sales.
The text showing up in Chinese could be the result of someone messing with the computer, rather than Fry's setting it up badly. OTOH, the author does a good job vilifying the Fry's staff.
Cheap boxes are good for small standalone terminals and for Joe Sixpack checking his email. Cheap boxes that make Linux look as awful as the article states are not helping our cause. If it were a single store, I would suggest a user group get involved. Being a chain store, the manager may be unwilling (or unable) to improve things.
Fry's will sell just about anything if you can get in to the right people with little regard for quality. This just emphasizes that. If it is something they think will move, they'll try it.
You also have to be careful, because Fry's will take an item in as a return from a customer, and will shrink-wrap it and put it back on the shelf. Supposedly with a label, though I've bought shrink wrapped items that did not have a label and were obviously somebody's returns.
I returned a web-cam that did not work, and they put it with stuff to be "returned to shelf". Moral here, if you see a lot of items with "return" labels on them, outnumbering the non-returned items, avoid that product as most seem to be returning it for whatever reason and Fry's is just putting it back on the shelf.
I also purchased SuSE 8.0 Professional the weekend it was on the shelf, only to find out one enterprising person stole the CDs out of the box. I get the box home, open it up, and no CDs or DVD. I had to fight with two store managers and threaten public disclosure (hint: asking them for their first and last name and for them to spell it for you will often make the managers nervous) and who knows what just to get them to exchange the product so I could get disks. [The first box had no signs of tampering.] I opened the second box in front of the manager before leaving the store just to make sure I got the disks that time.
As a customer of Fry's I have had to return about 50% of the computer components I have purchased from them. Either they were DOA, they did not work reliably if they did work, or they would fail within about 48 to 72 hours. [Just to be fair, others I've talked to have not had the same experience, however I shopped at 2 different Frys in the Bay Area with the same results.]
The SuSE incident is also the last time I shopped at Fry's for anything other than a cable.
I'm also about to find out how well they honor their "extended warranty". I bought a five disk DVD player for the house (my wife bought it as an anniversary gift), less than a year ago, and now it failing too.
. 62,400 repetitions make one truth -- Brave New World, Aldous Huxley
In the UK here we have PC World, a chain of large out of town stores owned by the wonderful Dixons Stores Group (who also own Dixons, Currys and founded Freeserve).
Anyway, the staff in these places are generally pretty braindead. There are exceptions - two friends of mine currently work in our local branch and they do know their stuff, but most of the staff just read whatever it says on the card next to the PC. Their technical support staff in the little in-store kiosks are usually dire. They know next to nothing about maintenance. I worked for a local company doing much the same thing, and we saw many a PC the guys at PC World had 'repaired'. One they deemed totally dead, never to work again actually turned out to have two bent pins on the hard disk. PCW kept it on a shelf for about 2 weeks before saying it was kaput.
This isn't to say PCW are totally bad though. They've lately started stocking a lot of OEM kit, and case mods. Their prices are coming down, and the range of kit they sell is pretty good. Rough with the smooth I guess.
Just walk on out and say "No, thanks" if they ask. Works every time. Its quite amusing to see a line of sheep waiting to be searched when you walk right past them. They stay in line, though.
Plus, I hate stores that make you "clear customs" before you can leave. Geez, if I managed to sneak an article past the cashier, what makes you think you'll catch me? "No, sir, that's not a CAT-5 spool in my pocket... I'm just glad to see you".
I used to be a door nazi at Fry's. And the reason why they are the way they are, is that they get a commission on "recovered" items. I caught a woman who had a 500$ laser printer on the bottom of her cart that she neglected to tell the cashier about. When I told her that it wasn't on her reciept she argued with me. I said "Your receipt totals 100$ and there is a $500 price tag on the printer" So she turned around and paid for it and I got a 50$ commission. The loss prevention people are always at odds with the cashier manager. Because our commission comes out of there budget. I had been verbally assaulted by the cashier manager on several occasions because I was "costing his dept too much money" I said "well maybe your cashiers need to lean over the counter and LOOK in the carts!" Finally he made up a story about me refusing to help a customer carry something to their car (even though loss prevention is expressly forbidden to do so)It turned out the "customer" was another loss prevention person who was carrying something out for someone else and he thought they were the customer. The store manager tore me a new a-hole.
Finally they gave me the "option" to take a position in any dept of my choosing. I chose the computer service dept of course, as that was where I had been trying to move into since it was Incredible Universe. The store manager was fired shortly after I left.
Um, you folks are missing the point. The whole reason Fry's is selling this box with Thizlinux on it is to avoid the M$ tax and be able to hit a low pricepoint without pissing off M$ by selling a box with no OS. A friend of mine bought one of these boxen. It did actually work, and I don't recall Chinese, but the functionality as-configured was minimal. And guess what - he put Windows(tm) on it. While Fry's may not sell a good system with Linux installed, somebody in the buying chain is certainly aware of the penguin. There's usually a decent selection of Linux distros and even apps sometimes - I've seen the obscure Xess on sale there, and stuffed plush Tuxes!
BSA: "Would you like a free Software Audit"? me: "No, thanks. My software is all Free".
"Maybe I shouldn't care... and in reality it isn't going to make a difference in my day whether they sell those boxes or not. It just bothers me that Linux is being portrayed this way to the general public. My message to the people who run Fry's Electronics (and any other outlet who may sell Linux PCs) is simple: If you are going to sell Linux boxes, please educate your staff on the subject, rather than allowing them to sound ignorant in front of your customers. It is an embarrassment to you as much as it is to the Linux community. Since you are selling Linux boxes, please make sure that they are set with a language appropriate to your locale. If your local to France, sell a French 'speaking' machine. It's that simple. One last thing: Load a distribution that is consumer friendly. This should have been consideration number one, but since you missed it entirely, I'm pointing it out now."
I agree with this, but I also realize that the people in these stores are not computer experts of ANY kind. They can't answer questions about Windows either, although they are more inclined to react to Windows questions with something out of their own experience.
One of the biggest problems with Windows right now in fact is that there is so little DEFINITIVE reference material on it from a users point of view. Microsoft stopped documenting anything beyond the APIs a long time ago and now everything your read about Windows is speculation. Diagnosing Windows problems has gotten to be a voodoo art more than a well defined process. All the more reason for it to wind up in the sh*t can of history where it belongs.
As far as the bad version of Linux this thing is running, I bet the hardware AND software came bundled to Fry's from China at a super bargain price.
On the other hand, if my intention was to buy a cheap machine to run Linux on, I'd feel a lot better about getting one of these than one of the cheap Windows machines. Chances are the cheap Linux machine has more generic components that will operate with ANY version of Linux, while the Windows machines are more likely to include some proprietary component to make you either dependent on the manufacturer, Microsoft, or both.
If I were in the market for a laptop right now I'd probably get one of those $700 Lindows version and then install Debian on it. I bet it would work just fine.