Slashdot Mirror
Open Source in Oregon
Anonymous writes "MWVLUG's coordinator, Cooper Stevenson, has asked Linux Today to post this detailed history of events surrounding the battle to get open source software legislation enacted in the Beaver State in an effort to raise public awareness for the campaign."
Well this eurotrash in the UK is still chuckling at the term "beaver state"!
What's so srtange about having to justify paying for something, it being software or something else? I know I would like expenses paid for by my tax money to be justified.
Support costs will be added no matter what. Why not justify the extra expense of licensing?
The fate of a law is once again more influenced by what lobbyists want than what is in the interests of the people.
It may be one man, one vote, but that man is the picture of a dead president printed on green paper, and the more of them you have, the more votes you have.
Hey I happen to live in BEAVERton, Oregon. Thank you very much! I have yet to see a living beaver walking around though.. Oh that's right, You made hats out of them.
LOL die hard patriots will at most be staring at their mouse until they can get over their forein built hardware.
Karma: -2^0.5 . Mainly due to the imbibing of dihydrogen monoxide
a citizen lobbyist.
Interesting to see an amateur go up against a fleet of paid pros (BSA, MS, et al). It would be nice to see it work. You know, that whole account appeals to my root-for-the-underdog, iconoclastic, giant-killer streak.
Just to pick a medical nit, however, he did misspell his medication... it's Vicodin, not "Vicaden" (changing a letter or two in a medication name could cause a medication error).
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
The problem here is, again, that legislators are elected by people to represent the interests of those people but instead are acting on behalf of artificial entities such as corporations and/or other organizations which pay them money in turn for which the legislators then represent their interests, often in betrayal of the interests of the people they are supposed to represent. It's a most cynical and duplicitous perversion of democracy.
r rorism-Lif e-OR-SB742-27feb03.htm
/or which represent aims with which the legislators identify themselves, even if those aims are detrimental to the welfare of the people to whom the legislators should be wholly dedicated to protecting.
I regret that I have to say this, but a big part of what's so far preventing this bill from succeeding is John & Karen Minnis, a powerful but very misguided duo in Oregon's capitol. Look at this beauty from last session:
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2003/Te
This bill would define almost anyone, anywhere, as a terrorist and send them to prison for life without possibility for parole.
The Oregon open source law's failure to pass indicates that our legislative process has been quite effectively coopted by legislators who draw their power from the people, then use their power to protect and further the interests of organizations which pay them money and favors, and
Hopefully the bill will pass. Even so, the problem of our subverted legislative bodies will continue. And as it does, we are in deep, deep trouble.
Vote out the bastards and we can let the good times roll again.
I mean, there's the speaker of the house arguing against savings when other equally or more urgent sectors experience budget cuts. Don't voters care about such things? Aren't the voters ultimately the people responsible for just who's up there representing them?
Is it really worth while to line your pockets with campaign contributions when ultimately nobody will vote for you anyways because you sold them out?
to have it posted somewhere besides a site that already advocates Open Source solutions? I mean, how about local newspapers?
/. and LT readers are pretty well in favor of it already. How about telling someone who doesn't already know?
It's preaching to the converted, otherwise. I don't mean to sound like a troll, but c'mon guys.
To celebrate the occasion of my 1000th post, I will post no more forever on Slashdot. Goodbye.
Freedom of speech?
:P
Parody?
Humorous (note) criticism of the government?
Oh, I forget, you live in the US... that's not allowed anymore
What I found most interesting was that untill the people outside of governmnet noticed that open source could help them directly they weren't interested in how it impacted the government they voted for!
Politicians might be short sighted and highly influenced by lobyists, though it looks like the voters -- and all citizens in general -- also suffer from this.
Who's in charge? Counting on human nature to remain the same, what would be necessary to change this?
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
Remember that Munich (Germany, Oktoberfest, remember ?) decided to migrate 15,000 desktops to Linux? That decision was mainly based on the strategic argument that open source software would help local consultants and IT vendors better than MS software would.
The argument that open source software creates jobs for smaller entities instead of spending money on software from big companies located somewhere is a strong argument if you talk to politicians.
Baby Ruby says "bwarghhhhh!"
See, the lobbyists' money allows the candidate to get larger and more powerful advertising out to the masses, which brings in a number of votes. This is weighed by the savvy (read: greedy, corrupt) politician against the loss of votes due to voters' disagreement with his choices on policy matters. So, ax - bx = c, where a is voters influenced by political ads, b is voters influenced by decisions on policy issues, x is the amount of leaning towards the lobbyists, and c is the net votes gained or lost by the policy decision. Add other factors, like the opposing candidate, other notable practices, party affiliation and affinity with the voting district, etc., etc., etc., and you come up with why Joe Senator decides not to vote like you told him to.
To reduce the effectiveness of lobbyists, therefore, simply increase b and reduce a.
Well, okay - seeing as it means educating voters and reducing apathy, it's not all that simple, but it's our only hope for a democracy that works. VOTE!
Nicholas Eckert
vidstudent
Given that the U.S. is doing its best to lose any technological edge it may have once held, I think your advice is stupid. Remember, it was the Japanese and German car makes who helped the U.S. car makers get back on track. The U.S. car I bought in 2000 to replace my Japanese car has been more reliable and cost me way less to operate than its predecessor. You had better embrace Linux, Apache, etc. because it may be our only hope out of this mess that we are getting into.
Open source needs more CAREFUL representation. If one quotes this article to literate people, putting the '[sic]' disclaimer after every pitiful grammar and spelling mistake, it becomes a sic, sic article. A good cause and informed debate can carry the day, Mr. Stevenson, but why handicap yourself with such juvenile writing? How about asking your English-major girlfriend, of SOMEBODY, to look things over before you publish them? Did the information on that CD contain such poor and distracting writing?
[troll]
Maybe if he had at least typed it in Word, he would have gotten some spelling and grammar checking?
[/troll]
I'm sorry, but open source word processors have spelling and grammar checking too. You couldn't tell from this article. If that CD Ken Barber is passing around is this pathetic, he is hurting the cause at least a little.
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. - Geek's corollary to Clarke's law
You ever have that stuff?
:(
I wish I had more wisdom teeth to extract.
How about, instead, a bill that requires:
This way, instead of the "or else" tone of the original bill, you get a more "let's level the playing field, and open the books to the paying public". That might get your legislators more amenable to passing that kind of bill.
Just a thought..
OK, so the legislators who are being coddled daily by bigtime special interests are a problem, but what's THE problem? As previously mentioned, that article is a terrible perversion of the most basic grammar and spelling rules. I realize not everyone has taken the time to gain even a basic mastery over their native language, but Christ, at least run a freaking spell check over it.
Next, let's point out that, while the Minnis crew is undoubtedly corrupt to their rotten cores, there's an enabler here: the people they claim to represent. You're preaching to the choir here, but what good would it do you to post this information anywhere else? Most of the sheep-people I talk to get googly eyed when you tell them to double-click something, think a license allows you to drive or indicates a corny spy movie is coming up on TNN (spike.. sorry, whatever), and couldn't tell you what "proprietary" means in the software world if you typed it into webopedia for them.
Until people stop reelecting the festering carcasses of self-important, money-grubbing, crooked, backwards, slimy, snake-oil politicians and demand some level of accountability from the government, what chance do we have to get things set straight? I think the part of this story that really speaks volumes is this:
They're not even saying they SHOULD use Open Source in Oregon, just that they should CONSIDER it as a viable solution to technology needs and it's still floundering. I would never say that people should be required to use OSS, but to not even be required to CONSIDER it? Would someone like to call shenanigans?
I can't wait to tell my wife. She'll giggle herself silly over that term.
absolutely. The US government is on track to be the last one in the whole world to wake up to open source. Yes, I know places like the D of D use it, but in other countries it is the people at the top of the government who are leading the oss charge.
On a related note: does anyone know if George Bush uses a computer?
Just to pick a medical nit, however, he did misspell his medication... it's Vicodin, not "Vicaden" (changing a letter or two in a medication name could cause a medication error).
He also used "past" when it should have been "passed". This slight changing of a few letters speaks volumes about his (lack of) education, and harms his credibility.
Some people say I'm obnoxious and lazy
I'm uneducated...my opinion means nothin'
Uh-huh.
Also don't forget about a wonderful pub called "Wanker's Corner". http://www.wankerscorner.com
when legislators in a financially strapped state insist on paying _more_ for something then they need to. Even if they have no intention of using anything but Microsoft software, the minute they present open source as a viable alternative, Microsoft will swoop in offering massive discounts as incentives to stay locked in to their proprietary solutions. Why anybody would intentionally work to block this negotiating tactic can only be explained as corruption. But then, these are the same people trying to introduce a bill to pass a law preventing the city of Portland from buying the local electric utility (PGE) from the now discredited Enron -- despite the fact that Portland had made no attempt yet to do so. Again, they're effective tying their own hands; in the latter case, they are preventing the city of Portland from using the threat of Eminent Domain to extract concessions from Enron. Why anbody would do this, short of being handed a stack of unmarked bills under the table by company executives, is beyond me...
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
Even as one of those unemployed consultants, I still suspect you are exagerating.
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
I happen to live in BEAVERton, Oregon. Thank you very much! I have yet to see a living beaver walking around though.
You see them sometimes in Greenway Park (near where I grew up)
"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys" P. J. O'Rourke
Most people in Oregon let alone people outside the state don't know what Linux is, let alone open source.
Besides, aren't those goons in Salem too busy trying to get a baseball team to Portland to create a few minimum wage jobs for the trailor park crowd here??
write a short letter, e-mail or place a short phone call.
/. readers.
I had some involvement with this while it was in the house general committee. The combination of AeA lobby and the Minnis couple are what is holding this bill back.
I got a chance to speak with some legislators on a one for one basis. Most of them do consider well written / spoken input and are happy to have it.
When you do write this letter or place a phone call, be sure and ask for a response to a question. Not only is your input catagorized and considered, it will take time. They will give you some sort of answer; otherwise, they are on the defensive for later conversations.
Interestingly enough, if you mail Minnis, you get a short form indicating in advance exactly why you will not get a direct response. (Really shows where the attention is here doesn't it?) Anyway, phone calls and fax work best for her because both of those take actual time and resources from her staff. Your legislator may vary...
Example questions:
What is your position on SB 589, the Oregon Open Source bill?
Given the number of unemployed IT professionals and the potential for savings HB 589 holds, why not work to keep Oregons dollars here where they can do some good for those struggling to find work in tough times?
Can I count on your support in committee regarding SB 589?
If, they express support, ask them how you can best help them move the bill forward. --Then do it. (Won't be bad, just a couple phone calls, friendly discussion or a letter.)
If against, ask them "why?". Take those answers and do some research and get back to them.
Finally: (The guilt approach)
Cooper Stevenson along with Rep. Phil Barnhart's staff have worked very hard on this bill against a powerful lobby. Many people across Oregon, myself included, devoted time and energy to the task of education for our legislators the first time around.
After about a month of hard lobbying, phone calls, letters and appointments, I personally believed Minnis had stopped the bill. We have a second chance people! Passing a bill like this is worth it! Spend a little time, feel good today --why not?
This is damn good news coming at a time when the legislature is looking for money anywhere it can. Perhaps ongoing pressure from the people of Oregon can make a difference. There must be at least 10,000 Oregon
This is a lot of noise people. If you have never done this before, it's easy, please start now and get two other people to do the same.
This group deserves an hour or two of your time.
Cooper, Sally, others... --good job!
(Off writing and calling as you read this...)
Blogging because I can...
All the beavers where run out of town by all the damn nutria (sp?) that got let loose in the 50's when they stopped being the "cool" pet to own. I've seen dozens of those things every time I get new a river or a pond. They look just like beavers, but they have a rat-like tail.
Space for rent, inquire within
You are forgetting they went with IBM, an American company, as well.
While IBM may be headquartered in Armonk, NY, USA, it is very much an International company. Almost all of the hardware is manufactured in Asia nowdays.
Hey buddy, get off his case!
PSaltyDS had a valid point about looking good in print, and just 'cause he made one eensey schmeensey error doesn't mean you have to get all hypercritical and rub it in and... [rant fades off in to the distance]
My other car is a 1984 Nark Avenger.
You must love the "Honk if you love Jesus" bumper stickers. I understand our Aussie friends enjoy seeing Roto-rooter drive down the road.
- and for wich it was not necessary
- there really wasn't anything to preven state agencies
- I might accept the argument that they just weren't sure yet of Linux as middleware accept for
- this Bill can only really be past with support from you.
and my favorite:- As I approached Sen. Atkinson's office I called to him, "Senator Atkinson," I said, "would you at least consider this legislation?"
The "he" was Senator Beyer, not Senator Atkinson."I'll tell you what I'll do," he said, "if Senator Atkinson says it's okay, then it's okay with me--he's the tech guy.'"
Nothing for 6-digit uids?
Amazing...this post gets flagged as a troll, while my very next one gets bumped up to a 5. I'm proud of both, and the content is just as good...very strange.
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
Someone (editor of story..cough..) should be killed for this. I don't feel like doing the exact math, but only about 40% of the posts in this whole story were 1 or better. And I think about 50% are -1. Just fucking wow.