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Beige G3 Resurrection Project
jgardner asks: "I have been a Mac user since '84, and lust for the latest hardware with the best of them. However, my bank account is less than accommodating. My current machine is a Beige G3 266. I use it for Quark & Photoshop work, and would like to move to Jaguar if the performance hit isn't too great. Does anyone have advice and/or experience that will help me save a few bucks and avoid any potential pitfalls?"
Is it me or are we getting desperate for movement here kids??
Fill 'er up with RAM. If you buy any other upgrade, you're half way to a new eMac.
would like to move to Jaguar if the performance hit isn't too great
Seriously, why do you need to use OS X at all? What does it provide you that you can't get in Mac OS 9 currently that you absolutely need? I would seriously sit down and think about that one. Then, I would add up how much it'll cost you to upgrade you Mac to use OS X. Don't forget to include: hardware you'll absolutely need to buy, Mac OS X itself, native versions of QuarkXPress and Photoshop and anything else you might want, and the time you're going to use up upgrading your system and trying to get it to work with Mac OS X.
IMHO, the price is just too high unless you can simply buy a new computer, especially with the time you'll need to put into it.
The biggest problem I see (and I became a Mac user in 2001, so beige Apple boxes make me think of the Apple IIe) is how much OS X needs RAM. 512MB minimum. Really.
Not saying it's impossible, but how would you benefit by running Jaguar? You'd be running slower, you'd have to upgrade your software--I mean you're not going to slow down your system by installing Jaguar just to run Photoshop under Classic are you? Kind of defeats the purpose. Upgrades for Photoshop and Quark alone will run you $400 (don't remember how much Quark is, but PS upgrades are typically $200), not to mention whatever other software you use day-to-day. And the $100 or so for Jaguar. That's $500 there. You can buy a used iMac for that much and be a lot happier even if you're running your current programs in Classic (but this time on a machine that's able to handle Jaguar in the first place).
At any rate, you're better off asking this question on a Mac site. Mac OS X FAQ at http://www.macosxfaq.com is a good place to start. Best of luck if you try it, but I wouldn't bother. Especially if you want to get any work done.
The best advice I can give you is to throw your G3 266 in the nearest dumpster.
Mac OS X has trouble running on some of the older iMac's which came out after the PowerMac G3 your talking about. MacOS X simply doesn't have the hardware drivers for the older Mac's, and since Apple does both software AND hardware, it's unlikely that you'll find any third party drivers you can get your hands on.
You can get a good iBook, or eMac for under $1,000 these days if you're looking for something with OS X, I'd go with a G4 though. The G3's are slowly being phased out completely. I'm pretty sure that what ever version of OS X that comes after Panther won't even support most G3's.
Keep in mind that it has always been the pratice of Apple to 'encourage' you to get the latest hardware by making the latest OS require it.
Why? Well, it's fast enough to handle those jobs but not much else anymore (the latest Adobe products are total bloatware), it has an AppleTalk printer port, and a real live SCSI port.
Bottom line--save it for those OS9 apps you really just want to savor without the headache of Classic Mode.
Danke tres mucho, tovarishch.
I have a beige G3 and have experimented with OS X on it, aside from simply being and old and slow computer the big drawback for me is the lack of support for peripherals. It uses ADB and Serial bus instead of USB, SCSI instead of FireWire (though that probably is less of a problem) . Since it is the ONLY model to both support OS X and use these older standards nobody is ever going to bother writing drivers for anything that uses them. My serial printer isn't supported, my ADB Wacom tablet, etc.
Your priorities seem to be a little off. Let's assume you work at some regional print shop. If you're running Photoshop and Quark, that means you're getting paid to do the work you're doing.
So let's see. You're willing to pay for (let's hope) Photoshop and Quark, but you can't find it in your budget to upgrade your Mac for a measly $1500, which will get you a brand new G5?!?
If that's true, you need to get into a new line of work, and if there's no jobs available there in Idaho, move somewhere where they got them.
I'm having a hard time putting your story together into a cohesive whole that makes any sense. If you said "all I do is web and e-mail and I can't afford to upgrade" then the answer would be "then don't". But when you name a couple applications that cost more than $1000 retail, but can't spend the cash on a new computer, and are the kind of apps you use for a business, you've got your priorities screwed up.
If I were you, and I were working with Quark and Photoshop, that indicates that I make my living off graphic design apps. Each hour I spend is either billed to a client or belongs to me. If you value your time, you'll constantly be buying the latest and fastest computer because it means your work can be done quicker, giving you free time, or getting you extra billable hours/projects.
If you can't afford to buy a new computer, you can't afford to go to OS X, because OS X will run Classic apps slower than OS 9. And if somehow you've recently splurged for OS X versions of Quark/Photoshop, then you really should have kept the OS 9 versions and gotten a new computer instead.
Any way you cut it, your priorities are way off. To answer the question, NO, your computer will NOT run OS X well, and even if it did, it wouldn't do well saddled with Classic on top of that, and then your memory hungry OS 9 based apps on top of that.
* Max the RAM (which, IIRC, is 768M), but is getting more expensive since it's special voltage RAM for this line.
... plus, if you do this and later want to move to a slightly faster machine like a Blue&White G3 , which can be had for as little as $100 in 400mHz/0M/0M configs, the RAM and video card will carry over.
$180 don't forget - its not just voltage - its gotta be THIS ram, else its too tall for the case.
* Get a G3 CPU upgrade either new or used (G3 Upgrades are hundreds less than G4 Upgrades)
$169 for a G3/500, 300 for a G4/500 and $500 for a G4/1GHz (on a 100 mhz buss, YEAH!)
* A new video card, if you're still using onboard video. A Radeaon 9200 PCI is $80 from Compusa and probably be several orders faster than the onboard Rage Pro chip.
pffff.. okay.. i'll give you this. $80.
* Faster hard drive. If you're stuck on some old 5400RPM your perfrormance can suffer -- this goes in hand with the next thing:
$80 for your average everyday 80 gig 7200 RPM hard drive.
* New IDE controller. The onboard IDE doesn't do DMA/66/100/133 and is a real dog performance-wise. Something new can give you a surprising performance boost.
i'm sure we'll be using it not only for Photoshop, but for video editing too... so lets get ATA 133 and USB 2 and Firewire all at the same time... because i'm starting to wonder wtf all these PCI cards are going to go in a machine with only 3 slots....
$180
* Ethernet controller. If you have to push the limits, can even think about a new ethernet controller that will have less CPU utilization.
personal experience tell me this is a $20 item.
what's that all cost us bob???
$710 for a screaming G3 Frankenmac with every slot filled much like a high priced porno actress.
add $140 for a G4 500 to give you an amazing, unaccelerated, PCI based 500 megahurts piece of shit for $850 flat!
I mean - its only got a worse video card, slower bus speed, and no free 17 inch monitor when compared to a perfectly overpriced eMac.
i need to drink less dr pepper before bed.
guns kill people like spoons make Rosie O'Donnell fat.
What a bunch of wet blankets. If you're pretty much happy with what you've got, want to learn OS X in preparation for the future, why do so many suggest you dump Old Reliable in favor of an iMac, iBooks, etc.?
I'm assuming you have a reason for wanting to upgrade what you have. Maybe you can't afford $600-1,000 for a nice used blue and white G3. Maybe you have some SCSI peripherals, serial devices, or an ADB sketch tablet you don't want to replace. Whatever, you have your reason for wanting to go this route.
First, upgrade the CPU. There are lots of options with G3 and even G4 ZIF upgrades for under $100. Sure, you can run OS X on a G3/266, but you will find it sluggish. And after you get the faster CPU, experiment with overclocking. A lot of G3s can be pushed to 66 MHz faster, and almost all can go at least 33 MHz faster than rated. Details on overclocking on lowendmac.com among other places.
Second, buy two or three 256 MB sticks of memory. Under $30 each -- check ramseeker.com. This will make the biggest difference of all.
Third, if you still have the stock Apple hard drive, by all means get something faster. The bus in only 16.67 MB/sec., so no need to get the latest and greatest, but the stock Apple drive only uses about 2/3 of the busses potential.
If you buy a drive larger than 8 GB (hard to avoid these days!), YOU WILL HAVE TO PARTITION IT. The first partition must be 8 GB or smaller, and that's the only place you'll be able to install OS X. A bit of a nuisance, but you're trying to avoid the expense of a newer Mac. Drive should be under $60.
Shop around for a copy of Jaguar (OS X 10.2). You can often get it for under $100.
Bear in mind that the beige G3 apparently will not be supported when Panther ships. An unsupported install may be possible, but 10.2 may be the end of the OS road for your vintage G3.
For about $300-350 you can turn your old beige G3 into a faster machine that will perform decently under OS X.
Future upgrades you may want to consider -- but try living with this setup first:
1. A Radeon 7000 video card, about $70. No Quartz Extreme, but far better than what's on the motherboard.
2. A USB/FireWire card. $30 or so -- they are getting cheap.
3. A faster ATA controller. Anything over Ultra66 is overkill on this machine. About $60.
If you plan on going this far, then the others are right. Stop right now and look into at least a blue and white G3 -- faster system bus, Ultra33 drive bus, much better video, includes USB -- or one of the older G4s. $300-350 to get a decent OS X machine isn't unreasonable, but $500 in upgrades and software would be.
Best of luck with your project.
Buying an eMac makes much more sense. there are a few things you can buy for a beige G3 that will make it better. I've hot-rodded 4 or 5 beige g3s. Here's a quick list:
:) But for your purposes, a new eMac will be almost as cheap for far better performance.
Radeon 7000 PCI card, $100-125. Dual display 32MB card. Pretty much the only game in town as far as video card upgrades go.
G4 Processor upgrade - I've seen a G4 366 ZIF chip as cheap as $89. Sure, its not the $500 1GHz G4 upgrade, but it gives u Altivec and twice the cache.
Max 'er out w/ RAM - about $75-100 for 3 256MB PC100 DIMMs.
For storage, HDs are pretty cheap. Spend about $50 for 40 or 60 GB of storage.
I've seen a Combo drive that can be made to work with OS Xfor $50.
So we're now sitting at around $399 worth of upgrades, not including USB/FireWire (another $50), and if you want a faster processor (and you are going to want a G4 for the Altivec) you're looking at an additional $200.
So right there, for a decent speed (500 MHz) G4, plus USB and FireWire in the above mentioned price, its $649 worth of upgrades, and you STILL have slow ass 10T ethernet.
For $250 more than that you can get a Combo drive eMac w/ more HD space, faster networking, AirPort extreme capabilities, more USB ports, new (optical) mouse and keyboard, a later generation G4 processor running almost twice as fast, a better graphics card with AGP as opposed to PCI (think Quartz Extreme support for Quark 6!), and a really nice built in 17" monitor, etc etc etc.
Buy the eMac. Seriously. Not to mention the software trickery involved in getting all those upgrades together and working in OS X (editing the CD-RW driver support files, G4 cache enabler, tricking it into installing the DVD player, etc.)
Plus the beige can't boot from FireWire, and if you want decent HD performance you'll need an ATA card as well (another $50.) See how it all adds up in favor of just buying a new eMac? Its faster, easier, will give you WAY less headaches, and will perform better for what you want.
Now, if you were just a hobbyist looking for a cool project to trick out a beige, I'm the guy you wanna talk to