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Open Source at TiVo
CowboyRobot writes "ACM Queue has an article by TiVo co-founder Jim Barton, in which he explains how the company relies on open source technologies to create a closed-source product. A good lesson in how other companies can do the same. From the article: Careful management of our sources to abide by the terms of the GNU General Public License while protecting our proprietary developments is a small price to pay for this benefit."
Why do they have any incentive to be "careful" about their use of open-source? Why not just paste it into your proprietary, closed-source application? It's closed-source, so the chances that anyone finds out are slim to nil. Of course, you have to maintain that as the company line...
Indeed, given the "business ethics? we've heard of 'em" nature of business these days, carefully shepherding one's source code to respect open-source rights is a losing value proposition. It takes resources - time, employees' attention, assignment of responsibility, meetings - while helping the company avoid a terrifically small chance of a lawsuit. Not the *right* thing to do, by any means, but probably the *customary* thing to do.
I've been wondering quite a lot recently just how much respect closed-source developers typically afford to open-source code. I think the answer is a dirty little secret of the software biz.
- David Stein
Computer over. Virus = very yes.
was jsut browsing though dishnetwork.com and saw that they offer the software(minus some prop. stuff) fro thier PVR model
http://208.45.37.181/
selling hardware that forces you to pay monthly fees for unnecessary service, and leaving you with a useless piece of garbage when they finally die
I believe that TiVo has stated that if they do go out of business, they'll open the scheduling code so that users aren't left with useless pieces of garbage.
"My God...It's full of ads!" -Fry, about the Internet, Futurama
Preventive War is like committing suicide for fear of death. - Otto Von Bismarck
You are aware that there's a lifetime-service option, aren't you? I figure I got my money's worth out of that a year or so ago. If TiVo does go tango-uniform at some point, there are ways to keep the machine going without having it "phone home"...it's what TiVo owners in Canada and Australia are already doing.
(Yes, IHBT. BFD.)
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
Can anyone tell me... If they are going to create a closed-source product, why did they go the Linux route, instead of using (Free/Net/Open)BSD?
I am at a real loss to tell what the advantage is... In a non-embedded environment, it's reasonable, because you want to support the greatest ammount of hardware as possible. But with an embedded system, they only need support for one TV-capture card, one video card, one network card, etc. They aren't using any stock Linux software, it's all custom.
In fact, the things they say were needed in the article, (performance, stability, good vm) are unarguable better in the BSDs.
So why do they use Linux? Not trying to troll, just wondering what advantage it really has in such an embedded system.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
I think it is interesting that TiVo says they pay a lot of attention to the security of the device. That is true now, but with the first TiVo devices, getting a BASH prompt on the device turned out to be relatively easy. On boot a menu was available on the serial port with a hardcoded password. Using that password you could make all kinds of changes to the way the machine started up.
He also metions talks about people getting around using the service. For years, the TiVo hacking community has known how to partially emulate the service by creating slice files and manually loading them onto the device. Recently hackers have figured out how to get an unmodified TiVo to use a service emulator. What's interesting about these development efforts is that they are not putting TiVo out of business.
In the article, he makes no mention of the goodwill that TiVo has fostered with their users, even their hackers. Soon after TiVo was created, Richard Bullwinkle, their former "Chief Evangelist" started talking to people on bulletin boards. He was always very helpful and forthcoming, with only minor exceptions. He wouldn't talk about bypassing the TiVo service and he wouldn't talk about extracting video from the device. If you didn't talk about those things, he was perfectly happy to help out. Although TiVo was in business to make money through their service, they didn't screw over people who didn't want to subscribe. That's such a treat from a for-profit company. Imagine Microsoft, who also sells their set-top device at a loss, treating customers who don't want to use theirs for gaming without hostility.
When Andrew Tridgell, (the same guy who created Samba and rsync) figured out how to create TiVo slice files so he could use the machine in Australia, it was probably this goodwill which made him choose to not release the info to the general public. Instead, it remained a closely guarded secret.
Today, years later, the people who have followed in Tridge's footsteps, have refused to destroy TiVo's revenue stream. They have been very careful to try to make sure that only people who can't get TiVo service in their area are allowed to get around it.
I think the goodwill that TiVo has is partly because of their general attitude towards their customers (and towards the hacker community) and partly the fact they used open-source software, and followed the license requirements. And, it is this, not their security measures, which have ensured that they've maintained a revenue stream -- despite using the "razor and razor blades" pricing model.
I just wish Mr. Barton hadn't used a loaded term "service theft" to describe people who are using their TiVos without subscribing to the service. That term would be appropriate if people were downloading TiVo data without having a subscription, but not people who are simply choosing not to subscribe and are finding alternatives.