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Sun Mad Hatter Linux Desktop Revealed
magellan writes "Sun has released screenshots of its upcoming Mad Hatter Linux desktop. Mad Hatter includes GNOME, StarOffice, Evolution, and Mozilla. Sun has made minor modifications to Gnome to make it more familiar to Windows users. Sun's Mad Hatter, along with SuSE's new push on the desktop, could make Linux on the corporate desktop and laptop a bigger reality."
I love the Windows 200 style interface. I get around in it very well, and as long as I am not doing anything too useful (like compiling, etc), it is very responsive.
It is all the stuff UNDER the hood that suck-didly-ucks. I don't mind Linux grabbing a Windows look at all. If nothing else, it will make it easier to get users to move over to Linux from their Windows machines.
Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds. - Albert Einstein
There are a lot of good reasons.
First, we tend to focus on the flaws in Windows. Windows contains a lot of good ideas (which originated at many companies over many years...Apple, for instance, is a major contributor). Just because it isn't as good as it could be and isn't improving doesn't mean that it doesn't have value.
Second of all, many of the flaws in Windows are not UI-related. Windows has stupid file locking semantics...but that doesn't affect how you double click on an icon.
Third, even if Windows is a nonoptimal way to operate, many, many people know how to use Windows and Windows software. They're familiar with Windows interface conventions, and anything different from Windows will face an immediate barrier. Once folks are on Linux, we can continue working on making the environment better.
Fourth, many of the things that suck about Windows only affect folks that are writing software or do lots of network work. So Windows may be a poor OS choice for a typical Slashdot user, but that doesn't mean that its flaws are a big issue for a typical office user, which is who Sun is targetting.
May we never see th
Come on, what do you mean it's not clickable? what's so hard about gohere.com ? ;-)
t /2003-August/msg00117.html
Fine I'll do it myself:
https://listman.redhat.com/archives/rhl-devel-lis
Looks like you skimped on the reading.
-Peter
At least in Word, this "feature" can be disabled... quite easily. If something can be disabled, I don't mind it being there.
You also miss things in Windows. For example, the ability to navigate the main menu with alphabet keys (ie not cursor). Windows 95 had this. IceWM and KDE have it. I hit "menu a i m" for "Apps, Internet, Mozilla" etc. Fast and effective, and one thing missing from the otherwise slick and smart GNOME desktop now.
:)
Please, will someone add this? I'd file a bug report, but Havoc P would just kick my ass
Just going by Google's Zeitgeist, Mac users accessing Google outnumber Linux users 3 to 1.
The Navy buying Macs and installing Linux on them is about as irrelevant as it gets.
--
the strongest word is still the word "free"
Reasonable post, but there *IS* plenty of innovation going on in the Linux camp. Check out Fluxbox, Enlightenment, Ratpoison etc. for new UI ideas and implementations. Just cos most distros shove a bloated Winalike front-end as the default desktop, doesn't mean there aren't others around!
Virtual Desktops are available if you run a powertoy but most users don't need em....contrary to popular linux geek opinion.
Gorkman
...which is why there's a free Microsoft Powertoy for virtual desktops.
Next.
"Sufferin' succotash."
Does Cygwin work well on 9x? You bet your ass it does. However I think you'd do better with MinGW32 and MSYS/gnuwin32.
...well, as soon as I get rid of those headrats...
-uso.
"PathoLogic Linux+GNU"
Dreams, dreams, don't doubt dreams, dreaming children's dreaming dreams. Sailor Moon SS
You forgot to mention my #1 biggest UIpet peeve in Linux... if you copy text, data, ANYTHING to be pasted into another app, both apps must remain open. Some apps don't even allow copy/paste interactivity. Of course since Windows clipboard is system wide, this is not an issue for Microsoft. I hope this gets addressed soon!
read: not supported by Microsoft
Note We've taken great care to ensure that PowerToys operate as they should, but they are not part of Windows and are not supported by Microsoft.
$cat
Just for the record: NT lets you move FILES that are open, but not delete them. You are entirely correct about directories.
As for symlinks, the NT kernel certainly does support symlinks (fsutil hardlink in XP from the command line), it's Explorer that doesn't use them. In general with Windows there's a lot of confusion about "Windows" vs. the NT kernel. "Windows" certainly has a lot of legacy design (such as shortcuts) in it that predates NT, but the NT kernel does the same sort of attention as the Linux kernel.
But the Linux & NT teams also have entirely different design philsophies. Linux obviously comes from Unix, which of course was a rebellion from Multics; the goal being to Keep It Simple, Stupid. But NT comes from VMS, and NT is partly a rebellion from Unix (remember all of the NT is going to kill Unix stories from a decade ago?).
Just to give you some concrete examples of what I mean, the NT kernel supports things such as a threadpool, IO completion ports, and a very robust synchronization API where many kernel objects (files, processes, threads, all represented in user space by handles) can all be "waited" on. Another good example of how NT is more advanced than Linux is that it doesn't kill processes "by heuristic" when it runs out of memory. It just quitely denies memory allocations in a reliable fashion, allowing programs to attempt to handle the OOM condition.
As for the file deleting issue, I think there's some interesting arguments about program integrity here. But first let me point out: Windows offers a FILE_SHARE_DELETE flag when opening files, that allows other processes to delete that file. Given that flag I think it becomes obvious that guaranteeing an application's file will be there is actually a feature to enhance program integrity, rather than some weakness in NT.
Most statistics show Macs at about 4% of the market. Linux generally grabs between 1% and 2%.
I'm really sorry the numbers don't agree with you, but that's the way it goes.
--
the strongest word is still the word "free"
Frankly, though, I think user interfaces for linux apps are pretty much OK now, and most, if not all users can easily cope with slight variations and inconsistencies. *Using* preinstalled apps is really not a problem for anyone. Installing and maintaining apps, and configuring devices is what's really difficult, and GUI's for configuring settings often fail to expose the underlying organization of config files it modifies, and thus don't work as intended a lot of the time.
Windows 2000 Professional, Windows 2000 Server, Windows 2000 Data Center, Windows XP Home, Windows XP Professional, Windows NT 4.0 Server, Windows NT 4.0 Workstation, Windows Me, Windows 98, Windows 98SE are all still in wide use. In fact, I've yet to see anyone running Windows 2003 Server, especially around work, since none of our software is certified for anything but Windows 2000 (SP 3 at that). We only got rid of the last NT server in our group last fall after one of our vendors finally certified their product for Windows 2000. I would imagine they'll support Windows 2003 Server sometime in 2005.
Actually, as at least one other person has noted, the correct way to do it would not be with simplistic "yes/no/cancel" dialogs, but with verbs. This is part of Apple's UI guidelines for the Aqua/OSX interface, and one of the commenters below notes that apparently this is a rule for Gnome as well (if, apparently, and ignored one).
Think about it, which is clearer --
Can you even parse out how "no" and "cancel" are different, or what would be the expected behavior if you chose one? Usually you end up seeing silly hints such as this:
Note to UI designers: if you have to add explanatory footnotes to your dialogs, your dialogs are broken .
You can argue all your want about the sequence of the buttons. Some of the people responding have alluded to UI research suggesting that "NO" "YES" is more intuitive for people than "YES" "NO", but I'm not familiar with that research so I won't get into it. I do know, however, that people are very good at unambiguously interpreting what simple verbs mean, and don't have to think through the consequences of a simple "do this" or "do that". On the other hand, figuring out what "yes, no, maybe" in response to a seemingly simple question, like the one above, can be annoyingly ambiguous. Quit making this mistake!
Yes/No/Cancel may be the UI model that Windows is stuck with, but there's still enough wiggle room for Gnome & KDE to avoid that trap. I hope that they manage to do so. Don't you agree?
DO NOT LEAVE IT IS NOT REAL
That's a very good point. I never though much of it, but NeXTStep had it right 15 years ago (and therefore Mac OS X does now).
Close an unsaved document in Edit.app, and you get a dialog saying:
Save changes to UNTITLED.rtf?
[Cancel] [Don't Save] [Save]
Save is the default (activatd by pressing Return)
If you quit Edit.app, then the dialog is:
There are edited windows.
[Cance] [Quit Anyway] [Review Unsaved]
Review Unsaved is the default. Clicking it brings up the aforementioned Save dialog. It makes perfect sense. Much better than Yes/No/Cancel.
"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
One little problem with your one little issue: Sun paid SCO after SCO publicly announced they hired David Boies.
SCO hired David Boies on or before, January 10, 2003.
SCO Threatens to Press IP Claims on Linux
On January 22, 2003, SCO made their public announcement.
Has SCO Fired Shot to Start Linux War?
Sun closed their deal, paid their money, and received their stock warrant on or after February 1, 2003.
SCO 10-Q
I think Sun knew what SCO was planning to do with Boies, especially since SCO and IBM had already held talks by then, and Sun negotiated an equity stake in SCO as part of Sun's deal with SCO.
We'll find out more when SCO files their next 10-Q.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Mod up the parent For those that don't use "OS X", Quit is no longer under the File menu, it has been moved to the left most menu that is named after the application.
hmm, my XF86Config has this in it:
# Uncomment this to disable the <Crtl><Alt><BS> server abort sequence
# This allows clients to receive this key event.
# Option "DontZap"
but trying to secure a terminal via software-locks against somebody who has physical access to it is a race you can't win.
Get VirtualWin. Edge flipping, small, configurable keys, and it's even GPL.
Eh? Why do you figure that people would pull to the left in an emergency? Can you cite research to support this? Does it have something to do with typical people (right-handers) using the typical dominant hand (the, err, right hand) to push the steering whell, and so cause the car to go left? If so, how would lefties like myself be expected to react -- by pulling to the right, away from traffic?
Here in the USA, the rule is similar, but possibly simpler: private dwellings open inward, public buildings open outward. The only exception is if a building has dedicated "in" and "out" doors, in which case the "in" doors swing in, and the "out" doors swing out. (Private homes basically never have in/out doors, so the division doesn't come up on that side.) With things working this way, if there's an emergency in a home, emergency personnel can storm in efficiently, and you typically don't have to worry about a stampede of people leaving a private home all at once, even if there's a fire. (If a fire broke out when everyone was sleeping, which is the case I think these rules were designed for, getting emergency personnel in quickly is more important than allowing a "stampede" of residents to come out.)
The decision about which doors to build which way makes sense, if you think about it. I'm not sure if the arrangements are quite the same in Denmark, but it doesn't sound like it's completely out of step with this organization.
DO NOT LEAVE IT IS NOT REAL