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Ministry of NanoEthics?

hlovy writes "Here's part of a blurb that promotes, Nanotechnology: Atom and Eve in the Garden of Eden," an upcoming conversation between Foresight Institute founder Eric Drexler and ETC Group head Pat Mooney: "Recent studies indicate that nanoscale materials now being commercialized pose potential hazards for human health and the environment." The "studies" were actually incomplete surveys of inconclusive toxicology reports, commissioned by ETC Group, itself. Even Greenpeace admits that no complete scientific study of the toxicity of nanomaterials has been yet been performed. Read Howard Lovy's NanoBot for commentary."

17 of 171 comments (clear)

  1. early by Boromir+son+of+Faram · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think that while this is a good idea, it's maybe a little too early to be thinking about nanoethics. Existing nanomachines are simple automata with no sort of intelligence or self-awareness. Therefore, issues of ethics and morality do not apply to them. We have several more decades before nanoethicism is needed.

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    Boromir, son of Faramir, King of Gondor and Minas Tirith
    1. Re:early by cwernli · · Score: 4, Interesting

      IMHO the ministry is used for governing the use of nano-tech by human beings - after all, there are some potentially serious implications in deploying, or even developping nano tech (take Billy Joy's article, or, for that matter, Vonneguts Ice-9).

      Now it doesn't really matter if those scenarios become reality anytime soon, but the mere thought of them becoming real convinces me that a governing body is needed, the sooner the better.

    2. Re:early by s4m7 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      it's not about whether the 'nanomachines' are sentient... it's about chemical properties. apparently folks at the ETC seem to fear something like the old anti-atomic camp used to claim, something like if we manage to make a molecule that's just promiscuous enough, that it will start a cataclysmic reaction eventually turning all of space, or some significant portion of it, into homogenous 'grey goo'

      It's certainly an interesting idea. But there isn't much reason to believe it is any more likely than the moon spontaneously converting itself into a duck.

      Now these extremists tone down their argument a little: "nanoscale materials are toxic". The problem is that most nanotechnology is just unusual applications of exisiting natural chemical processes.

      It IS high time to start the ethics discussion on nanotech, and the first step is to throw out the debunkers. We waited far too long to publicly have the genetic ethics discussion, and look at the stupid stem-cell research laws that were proposed.

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    3. Re:early by og_sh0x · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Do not assume that just because it is "natural" then it is inherently safe. After all, asbestos is a natural mineral mined from the ground. It is dangerous in it's natural form and needs no processing at all. And it's particles are microscopic in size. Perhaps nanotechnology is non-toxic, but the "natural" argument holds no water.

  2. Nanotech can be dangerous by kinnell · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Nanoscale particles can pass through the skin, and therefore can be dangerous if the particles in question contain toxic substances. It is important that this is studied proerly and the appropriate regulations put in place before manufacturers start selling us carcinogenic toothpaste. It's also refreshing that they're addressing real issues, rather than paranoid sci-fi nonsense like grey goo.

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    If I seem short sighted, it is because I stand on the shoulders of midgets
  3. Does anyone really believe that... by YanceyAI · · Score: 5, Insightful
    "...we run the risk of reducing the biosphere to gray goo, and if so, what should we do?"

    I'm a bit sick of reactionary fear of technology. I work for a major university and deal with "outcry" to many of our "potentially dangerous" research projects. I hate to tell the reactionaries this, but the people capable of, say, bioengineering plants to extract toxins from the soil, are also the most competent ones for putting in safeguards and policing themselves.

    The IT world is a perfect example of what happens when the uninformed start trying to regulate an industry they don't understand. I'm not saying everyone whould have free reign, I'm just saying that the fanatics should get maybe work on getting their PhD's if they are that concerned. Of course, then they might then find that they can solve problems with technology that they create, instead of wasting their time fearing what the can't comprehend.

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    1. Re:Does anyone really believe that... by kahei · · Score: 5, Insightful


      I agree that those capable of doing the work and understanding the systems involve are the best qualified to use (or decide not to use) a new technology.

      The trouble is that it's not them making the decision; once the technology's become available it's up to the upper management of Del Monte and Exxon to decide how it's used. And they are neither well qualified nor disinterested.

      P.S. I, for one, welcome our new nanoparticle overlo -- oh, whatever.

      --
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  4. Small != Dangerous by Pork-Chopper · · Score: 4, Funny

    I fail to see why materials with features of a particular scale are implicitly more dangerous than those of another. I suppose I'm afraid of centitechnology, especially bullet sized things.

  5. Fear? by henbane · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Why do these people assume that scientists have no ethics? Is it currently possible to do research in a cutting edge field without moronic protestors telling you what you are doing is wrong and stirring up the general public to believe you are breaking the laws of nature?

    GM foods bad! Embryo research bad! Cloning bad! And now Nanotech bad too. Obviously scientists have no morality or sense of social responsibility. Arse!

  6. Here is when to really fear nanotech... by blcamp · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...When they start making nano-sized black helicopters.

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    The problem with socialism is that they always run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher
  7. Re:why is it so hard by FooAtWFU · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why is it so hard for people to see that public-key cryptography can be used for ill and will be very hard to stop?
    Why is it so hard for people to see that atomic energy can be used for ill and will be very hard to stop?

    Just because something can be used for Bad Things does not mean it should be instantaneously squashed. Just about any technology you want can be used for ill, and many of those would be very hard to stop. What about it?

    --
    The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
  8. Common Problem.. by Talia+Starhawke · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I have to admit, when I first learned about nanotechnology, I thought it was cool, but I didn't truly understand it. I don't really think I understand it still, after doing a bit of research on the subject.

    It's similar to a lot of technology that has really become commonplace in the media. Recently, a local TV news headline in my area had the audacity to say, "Food from Cloned Animals... IS IT SAFE?" Everyone in the room who knew a bit about cloning rolled their eyes. But later that evening, my grandmother called me, wanting to know if I was going to watch the broadcast.

    "Recent studies indicate that nanoscale materials now being commercialized pose potential hazards for human health and the environment."

    Yeah, and milk from cloned cows is going to make you grow three stomachs! Details at 10!

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    +5, Female ;)
  9. BAN POTATOES NOW!!! by kinnell · · Score: 4, Funny

    Potatos, when propelled at high velocity, can be used as a deadly weapon. We must band together and stop these evil vegetables from reproducing before it's too late. Potato farmers must be eradicated.

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    If I seem short sighted, it is because I stand on the shoulders of midgets
  10. Let me consult the Magic 8 Ball (tm) by Rogerborg · · Score: 5, Funny

    Oh wise and all knowing Magic 8 Ball, will this debate be fruitful?

    Concentrate and ask again.

    Hmm, perhaps a little vague. Will this ethical debate drag on for years?

    Signs point to yes.

    And while we debate whether we should use it or not, will the technology be put into production in some foreign asspit who don't give a mouthful of spit about ethical issues?

    You may rely on it.

    And after that happens, will we terminate our debate on the basis that the cat is out of the bag, and that American industry needs to compete or be destroyed by the Foreign Menace?

    Most likely.

    And after this happens, will the hissy fitters who predicted the imminent end of the world over this suddenly forget their claims, and instead find a new technology to shriek and gnash their teeth over, as they always do?

    Better not tell you now.

    Thank you, Magic 8 Ball, your answers are most enlightening.

    --
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  11. flying carpet ethics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Worrying about the ethics of nanotechnology is like worrying about the ethics of flying carpets. Sure, somebody might fly over the Sultan's garden and peek at his wives---but he has to build the damn thing first.

  12. I am convinced by Timesprout · · Score: 5, Funny

    that in the future we will have nano technology embedded within us to enforce RIAA etc type infringements by punishments such as inducing bouts of uncontrolled urination and defecation in public. People will see you crap yourself at the touch of a button and say 'ahh he must have been using P2P again'

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  13. Smaller can be safer as well. by ahfoo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Take the case of microsilica AKA silica fume. This is a material used in a vast number of products but perhaps most famous for making ultra-high strength concrete.
    There are two common forms known as amorphous and crystalline microscilica. The amorphous product is not known to produce the lung disease silicosis while the larger scale crystalline variety does so quite readily.
    So, substances don't necessarily become more dangerous at smaller scales, the opposite can also be true.