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Portupgrade on FreeBSD

Posted by michael on from the up-and-up dept.

BSD Forums writes "In her previous article, OnLamp's Dru Lavigne took a look at the built-in utilities that can be used to manage the FreeBSD ports collection. In this article, she'd like to continue in that vein. She takes a look at portupgrade, a feature-rich port designed to help you get the most out of the ports collection."

119 comments

  1. I don't mean to be a jerk, by ignorant_newbie · · Score: 2, Interesting

    but is this a slow news day or something? portupgrade is at least 2 years old... It kicks ass, but it's hardly news (or, imho, as good as portage)

    --
    Sitting Walrus Blog
    1. Re:I don't mean to be a jerk, by __past__ · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you look at the last articles in the BSD section, there's been a lot of junk lately (like the gettext update). My guess is that they are up to something - maybe that's part of a wicked plan for the traditional premature announcement of the next FreeBSD release or something.

      --
      Programming can be fun again. Film at 11.
    2. Re:I don't mean to be a jerk, by kruntiform · · Score: 5, Interesting

      portupgrade is at least 2 years old... It kicks ass, but it's hardly news

      portupgrade is not news, but new user documentation is news. Well, if it's good documentation, then it's news. I read a few sections of it just now, and I think it's pretty good. It's written in a direct, readable style and has lots of examples. Since it answered some questions I had about portupgrade, it seems to me to be comprehensive. So, this is pretty cool. One of the best things about BSD is the quality of the documentation.

    3. Re:I don't mean to be a jerk, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      x-bit Labs qui a obtenu le dernier rapport de la tres serieuse firme Mercury Research (l'acces a ces rapports coute plusieurs milliers de dollars par an) nous apprend que NVIDIA detenait 60 % du marche BSD des GPU DirectX 9 pour desktop au deuxieme trimestre 2003.

      NVIDIA doit ce bon resultat au GeForce FX 5200, puisque la firme de Santa Clara s'octroie 70 % de parts de marche sur le segment des GPU DirectX 9 d'entree de gamme.

      C'est comprehensible, son principal rival ATI n'a que le Radeon 9600 (non-pro) a mettre BSD face au GeForce FX 5200, et il est plus couteux que ce dernier.

      On ne peut pas vraiment dire qu'ATI soit present BSD sur le marche des GPU DirectX 9 d'entree de gamme. Sur ce segment "value", dans sa globalite, ATI en est encore a DirectX 8.1 avec le Radeon 9200 qui mine de rien est base sur une architecture commencant a prendre de lage.

      Ceci etant dit, on se focalise sur DirectX9, alors que ce n'est pas forcement le cas des grands fabricants de PC BSD. On aura bientot l'occasion d'en reparler, ATI annoncera quelques design vin que NVIDIA aura probablement du mal a digerer FreeBSD.

      Sur le marche des chipsets integres Mercury Reseach rapporte que NVIDIA perd du terrain, ses parts de marche passant de 7 a 3% Neanmoins, ces chiffres ne sont pas significatifs car Mercury Reseach a modifie son mode de calcul BSD. En effet au premier trimestre Mercury Research prenait en compte les southbridge MCP dans le comptage des chipsets integres alors que desormais, et c'est plus logique BSD seuls les IGP sont comptabilises. Au deuxieme trimestre NVIDIA aurait livre 600 000 IGP pour 1.1 millions de SPP.

      Le marche des portables est toujours domine par ATI (voir cette news), et NVIDIA aurait encore perdu du terrain au deuxieme trimestre. NVIDIA compte neanmoins BSD sur ses GeForce FX Go pour se refaire un sante au troisieme trimestre.

  2. portupgrade is a port by JDizzy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The thing that tweaks me is that portupgrade should be part of the base system. Portupgrade and friends should be writen in something aside from ruby (becuse we dont' want ruby in base). It is probably the most usefull and powerfull package/port managment tool ever created since the freebsd ports is already the best package system in all of open source. FreeBSD ports is always immitated, yet never replicated in full glory. It nice that portupgrade traces down dependancies automatically (forward, or reverse), and can cleanout stale lib's and such.

    --
    It isn't a lie if you belive it.
    1. Re:portupgrade is a port by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      What high-level language is in the base system? Shell script? Forth?

      I'd rather have Ruby in the base than Perl, it's a pain to build. Ruby is (currently) much more lightweight, I even have it installed on my Zaurus handheld as a single executable (miniruby).

    2. Re:portupgrade is a port by drdink · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Portupgrade should not be part of the base system. If you look, you'll see that CVSup is not part of the base system, either. CVSup is the tool you use to update both your source and ports trees, and it isn't part of the base! I believe the current mindset among many is that the base should be smaller, and more should be offloaded to ports. For example, Sendmail shouldn't be part of the base system. Ports are a great tool, but they are not a necessary part of the system.

      --
      Beware, Nugget is watching... See?
    3. Re:portupgrade is a port by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Preferably C++. GNU C++ is bound to be as portable as C, and there shouldn't be any worries about "bloat" as this program isn't meant to be part of the Unix "swiss army knife" of standard utilities. Neither one of those are going anywhere anytime soon. C++ is probably better, maybe even somewhat faster than ruby-based portupgrade. But, yes, unfortunately this isn't even vaporware, it's "I don't have the gumption and talent to do it myself but I'll look a gift horse in the mouth and pretend I know what I'm talking about anyway"-ware.

      While I'm at it, I'm a bit perturbed that devd is written in C++ and doesn't appear to have usbd's capabilities sewn into it yet.

    4. Re:portupgrade is a port by Arandir · · Score: 1

      There is a bit of talk here about how portupgrade won't make it into the base system even if it were in C or C++. Maybe, maybe not. I do know that there's some work on revamping the whole package management system. If so, then portupgrade might very well be the candidate.

      I have thought off and on about rewriting portupgrade in C++. The only benefit of this would be to get it into the base system, since I don't think with all the disk i/o going on, that C/C++ will be any faster than Ruby in this context. But if anyone is interested, contact me.

      --
      A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
    5. Re:portupgrade is a port by JDizzy · · Score: 1

      I would be willing to help in this. I can write in C, and it really isn't that trivial of functionallity once I think about it. But we must realize that portupgrade is a suite of tools, and we would have to do them all. It would be nice to add some XML support to portupgrade, and the ports system in general as Jordan Hubard once suggested. Anyways, it seems easy to me to parse the pkgdb and act upon it. If your still interested, let me know.. you would have at least one person in your corner. =)

      --
      It isn't a lie if you belive it.
    6. Re:portupgrade is a port by Arandir · · Score: 1

      Okay, let's talk. How do I reach you? (you can reach me through my website)

      --
      A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
    7. Re:portupgrade is a port by JDizzy · · Score: 1

      I can be found on irc.freenode.net, in the obvious place (#freebsd). My nickname is "masta". I'll look at your site to find an email.

      --
      It isn't a lie if you belive it.
    8. Re:portupgrade is a port by kwerle · · Score: 1

      Amen to that.

      cd /usr/ports
      make upgrade or make update should do the right thing.

      I filed that bug and it got pissed on. More and more I'm thinking OSX will be my next server OS.

    9. Re:portupgrade is a port by Jellybob · · Score: 2, Funny

      Is there any reason you want XML support added, or is it just because everything should have XML support until the Next Big Thing comes along?

    10. Re:portupgrade is a port by JDizzy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      oh ya.....

      BSD is dead, I forgot about that when I installed it on my 5 local machines years ago. Silly me, how could I miss something like that? I guess I forgot that Finux is so l33t (like you) because it has less user than Windows. Then the Finux user discovers something with less users than even Finiux, and it has a license that is non-virus like. Oh no.... not something more free and stable than Finux, it couldn't be, it just can't exist... the World is in collision, you had better sink into denial and just say "BSD is dying". Yes, Yes ... thats it, it doesn't exist, it cannot be. Close your eyes, run around in circles screaming "BSD is dead", I'm sure you will convince yourself of it given enough time.

      Since BSD has been dying for 5 years now, and gainning a cult of devil (daemon) worshipers, it must be evil. Yes, that's it! It is the work of evil, like microsoft. Yes, anything that is not Finux must be bad, right? I mean, it has a license that actually is free. This must be a trick! nothing is free as in "free speach", and free as in "cost nothing". Why Finux is only free as in "cost nothing", but requires any modifcations to go back to the borg collective... er.. I mean the Free Soft Ware Foundation. Besides, The mascot is a daemon, and it has cute little horns, and that trident. Finux has a penguin, which is the mascot because Linus was travelling to Brazil in 94 and got biten by a cute little penguin. There for BSD is dying, yes... (running around in circles), BSD is dead.

      --
      It isn't a lie if you belive it.
    11. Re:portupgrade is a port by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget to add Bobby Bonds to your list. He died a few days ago. And keep up the good trolling. :)

    12. Re:portupgrade is a port by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      x-bit Labs qui a obtenu le dernier rapport de la tres serieuse firme Mercury Research (l'acces a ces rapports coute plusieurs milliers de dollars par an) nous apprend que NVIDIA detenait 60 % du marche BSD des GPU DirectX 9 pour desktop au deuxieme trimestre 2003.

      NVIDIA doit ce bon resultat au GeForce FX 5200, puisque la firme de Santa Clara s'octroie 70 % de parts de marche sur le segment des GPU DirectX 9 d'entree de gamme.

      C'est comprehensible, son principal rival ATI n'a que le Radeon 9600 (non-pro) a mettre BSD face au GeForce FX 5200, et il est plus couteux que ce dernier.

      On ne peut pas vraiment dire qu'ATI soit present BSD sur le marche des GPU DirectX 9 d'entree de gamme. Sur ce segment "value", dans sa globalite, ATI en est encore a DirectX 8.1 avec le Radeon 9200 qui mine de rien est base sur une architecture commencant a prendre de lage.

      Ceci etant dit, on se focalise sur DirectX9, alors que ce n'est pas forcement le cas des grands fabricants de PC BSD. On aura bientot l'occasion d'en reparler, ATI annoncera quelques design vin que NVIDIA aura probablement du mal a digerer FreeBSD.

      Sur le marche des chipsets integres Mercury Reseach rapporte que NVIDIA perd du terrain, ses parts de marche passant de 7 a 3% Neanmoins, ces chiffres ne sont pas significatifs car Mercury Reseach a modifie son mode de calcul BSD. En effet au premier trimestre Mercury Research prenait en compte les southbridge MCP dans le comptage des chipsets integres alors que desormais, et c'est plus logique BSD seuls les IGP sont comptabilises. Au deuxieme trimestre NVIDIA aurait livre 600 000 IGP pour 1.1 millions de SPP.

      Le marche des portables est toujours domine par ATI (voir cette news), et NVIDIA aurait encore perdu du terrain au deuxieme trimestre. NVIDIA compte neanmoins BSD sur ses GeForce FX Go pour se refaire un sante au troisieme trimestre.

  3. Wow by Sevn · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm humbled. I used ports forever, even dabbled with portupgrade on FreeBSD and still was of the opinion that Gentoo portage was "better". If anything, I'd say they are neck and neck now. VERY good article. From someone that has to manage a whole bunch of FreeBSD machines, this article hit the spot. Now I'll just add portsdb -Uu and pkgdb -F to my nightly cvsup cron job. If you take the time to set up your cvsup stuff in /etc/defaults/make.conf, updating your sources and ports is as easy as:

    cd /usr/src
    make update

    To translate for Gentoo users:

    emerge -upD world becomes:

    portversion -L "="

    and emerge -uD world becomes:

    portupgrade -arR

    Oh, and etc-update has always been:

    mergemaster

    Though mergemaster does kinda suck until you get used to it. Not that etc-update is an e-ticket ride either.

    --
    For every annoying gentoo user, are three even more annoying anti-gentoo crybabies. Take Yosh from #Gimp for example.
    1. Re:Wow by pillohead · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Are you a developer? I can't think of a reason why you need to cvsup nightly. Also you can have one machine do the cvsup then export /usr/ports via nfs to the other machines.

      I wouldn't edit the /etc/defaults/make.conf, in fact I wouldn't edit anything in the /etc/defaults folder. Copy that file to /etc/make.conf it will override the default without altering it.

    2. Re:Wow by Sevn · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I cvsup nightly because it really doesn't matter. That and a lot of these machines are commercial webhosting platforms. One very tiny nightly cvsup is going to take a lot less time than a weekly or monthly update. If it's done nightly, chances are that any security update I hear about from freebsd-security-announce is already there. Also more likely any port with a security problem is upgraded also. That's why I cvsup nightly. I admin 300+ machines that are all facing the world. On each network, I cvsup ONE machine, then push the packages out to the other machines in the farm. In keeping with my "hands off, zero administration" approach, I prefer using cron'd rsync to keep a package directory updated instead of using nfs which is sometimes thought of as an acronym for "NO FUCKING SECURITY". My scripts then install my pre-approved packages from the local package directories on each slave machine. Editing /etc/default/make.conf is of little concern to me because I know the meaning of every single line in the file as I've been using FreeBSD since version 2.1.7. I suppose I could copy it to /etc and only put the differences in there, but it's really not that big of a deal. Rc.conf is something I don't mess with though. I do edit the one in /etc and leave the one in /etc/defaults alone. FreeBSD is kinda how I pay for my car and my house and my food. But hey, thanks for the tips!

      --
      For every annoying gentoo user, are three even more annoying anti-gentoo crybabies. Take Yosh from #Gimp for example.
    3. Re:Wow by dodell · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not to troll, but your hostility is completely unnecessary. You could have said you were familiar with the process you needed to take and say thanks anyway. The sarcasm is really unnecessary. It adds to an "elitist" outlook on the BSD community (one that OpenBSD already contributes enough to) and discourages people from migrating. The dude has no way to know you've got such experience with FreeBSD.

      Granted Linux has got a whole lot of these pissing contests going on all the time... we don't need them in BSD.

      --
      www.sitetronics.com/wordpress
    4. Re:Wow by Census+BSD+User · · Score: 1

      You have been registered. 1

      --
      Read here about the slashdot
    5. Re:Wow by Sevn · · Score: 0, Troll

      I think I pretty much summed up that I was familiar with the environment that I live on, and that I'm not "stupid". I don't think you are either. Someone new to FreeBSD has every right to think the way you do. I'm just too "oldschool" to do everything "correct". Neither one of us are right. I just have a system based on an old way of thinking that works for me and the businesses I support. Traditional UNIX is FUELED by elitism. It is sad, but true. Back in the "good ole days" of UNIX, that sadly I'm old enough to remember, RTFM was the way things were done. Everyone had an attitude problem big enough to push a barge up the mississippi. The BOFH mentality. I try to filter as much of that out as possible. The problem is.... IT WORKS. That elitism inspired the right people to "fuck off" and do better and inspired the "wrong people" to just fuck off completely. There was no room for amatuer hour at the levels I've been at. If you sucked, you had better adapt quickly or perish for the sake of the enterprise. People like me are now a dying breed. My attention to detail is razor sharp because of years of competing with conflicting points of view. I survive because I continue to fight. Guys like me don't fit in well with the fortune 500. I preach things that HR reps are scared of. And I'm DAMN lucky to have the clients I have. Because I KNOW damn well what I'm talking about. That is the only thing that saves me. I still get to have my pride. I still get a fraction of the 300k+ paycheck I used to get for about 3 times the work. But I don't have to change. And I know what I'm talking about.

      --
      For every annoying gentoo user, are three even more annoying anti-gentoo crybabies. Take Yosh from #Gimp for example.
    6. Re:Wow by dodell · · Score: 1

      Ever gone to a shrink about that ego problem of yours? I've plenty of experience with BSD (mostly with FreeBSD, but I can manage well in Net or OpenBSD) and I don't agree with this at all. Neither would most of the people on the FreeBSD mailing lists.

      I don't think that anybody should just "fuck off". FreeBSD has a lot to offer (for a secure, stable networked future) and if people aren't willing to spread the knowledge, I don't see things coming very far. I'm sure the BOFH mentality gets you far in life and makes you a lot of true friends. I know that if I walked around telling my coworkers to go fuck themselves that they'd absolutely love me. I'm sure I'd stay at that job for a long time.

      In any case, a good understanding of successful and appropriate social conduct helps. You really don't come across as a person who's learned either.

      Good day.

      --
      www.sitetronics.com/wordpress
    7. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As far as I know Windows has had native support for Java for ages. Actually since Microsoft and Sun signed an agreement about this back in 1997 that deals with this issue. So the fact that FreeBSD only recently got this is fine but not exactly revolutionary.

    8. Re:Wow by Sevn · · Score: 1

      Amazing how you analyzed me from one post. You are brilliant. I'm not judging you but you sure are passing judgement on me. It's probably time for you to take a long look in the mirror. Oh, I see you childishly added me to your foes list because of your difference in opinion. Very mature. I made sure to add you to my friends list. :) Perhaps you should look at a lot more of my posts before going off half cocked and reread a little more closely what I actually wrote.

      --
      For every annoying gentoo user, are three even more annoying anti-gentoo crybabies. Take Yosh from #Gimp for example.
  4. No by cperciva · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The ports tree is good. Better than the base system; stuff in the ports tree is split into nice self-contained packages, while the base system is a single monolithic mess.

    We need to hack parts of the base system off and put them into ports (like kerberos), not add more stuff into the base system.

    --
    Tarsnap: Online backups for the truly paranoid
    1. Re:No by JDizzy · · Score: 4, Informative

      I admit you have an intersting perspective, and i would point out that you can build your system without kerberos via make.conf options. Same for Sendmail, etc...

      --
      It isn't a lie if you belive it.
    2. Re:No by cperciva · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes, you can *rebuild* the system without those; but that's really the point of packagizing code. If sendmail, bind, and other similar software was taken out of base and put into ports, people would be able to add or remove them as distinct packages. Right now, if you've installed a RELEASE and you decide you don't want sendmail around, you need to work out for yourself which files to delete.

      --
      Tarsnap: Online backups for the truly paranoid
    3. Re:No by AndyElf · · Score: 1

      Problem is that in this case your system would hardly be usable out-of-the-box. Then again, the sam ething as has been done for perl (and applies to X as well) could be done: remove from base, but provide a package as part of the install process.

      --

      --AP
    4. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      The End of FreeBSD

      [ed. note: in this text, former FreeBSD developer Mike Smith gives his reasons for abandoning FreeBSD]

      When I stood for election to the FreeBSD core team nearly two years ago, many of you will recall that it was after a long series of debates during which I maintained that too much organisation, too many rules and too much formality would be a bad thing for the project.

      Today, as I read the latest discussions on the future of the FreeBSD project, I see the same problem; a few new faces and many of the old going over the same tired arguments and suggesting variations on the same worthless schemes. Frankly I'm sick of it.

      FreeBSD used to be fun. It used to be about doing things the right way. It used to be something that you could sink your teeth into when the mundane chores of programming for a living got you down. It was something cool and exciting; a way to spend your spare time on an endeavour you loved that was at the same time wholesome and worthwhile.

      It's not anymore. It's about bylaws and committees and reports and milestones, telling others what to do and doing what you're told. It's about who can rant the longest or shout the loudest or mislead the most people into a bloc in order to legitimise doing what they think is best. Individuals notwithstanding, the project as a whole has lost track of where it's going, and has instead become obsessed with process and mechanics.

      So I'm leaving core. I don't want to feel like I should be "doing something" about a project that has lost interest in having something done for it. I don't have the energy to fight what has clearly become a losing battle; I have a life to live and a job to keep, and I won't achieve any of the goals I personally consider worthwhile if I remain obligated to care for the project.

      Discussion

      I'm sure that I've offended some people already; I'm sure that by the time I'm done here, I'll have offended more. If you feel a need to play to the crowd in your replies rather than make a sincere effort to address the problems I'm discussing here, please do us the courtesy of playing your politics openly.

      From a technical perspective, the project faces a set of challenges that significantly outstrips our ability to deliver. Some of the resources that we need to address these challenges are tied up in the fruitless metadiscussions that have raged since we made the mistake of electing officers. Others have left in disgust, or been driven out by the culture of abuse and distraction that has grown up since then. More may well remain available to recruitment, but while the project is busy infighting our chances for successful outreach are sorely diminished.

      There's no simple solution to this. For the project to move forward, one or the other of the warring philosophies must win out; either the project returns to its laid-back roots and gets on with the work, or it transforms into a super-organised engineering project and executes a brilliant plan to deliver what, ultimately, we all know we want.

      Whatever path is chosen, whatever balance is struck, the choosing and the striking are the important parts. The current indecision and endless conflict are incompatible with any sort of progress.

      Trying to dissect the above is far beyond the scope of any parting shot, no matter how distended. All I can really ask of you all is to let go of the minutiae for a moment and take a look at the big picture. What is the ultimate goal here? How can we get there with as little overhead as possible? How would you like to be treated by your fellow travellers?

      Shouts

      To the Slashdot "BSD is dying" crowd - big deal. Death is part of the cycle; take a look at your soft, pallid bodies and consider that right this very moment, parts of you are dying. See? It's not so bad.

      To the bulk of the FreeBSD committerbase and the developer community at large - keep your eyes on the real goals. It's when

  5. Nice.... by Robowally · · Score: 1

    Nice work Dru!

    --
    Karma? Sorry, i don't believe in superstition. http://talk.thinkingmatters.org.nz
  6. Re:BSD Problems by Palshife · · Score: 1

    20 minutes? Sounds like you may have either a badly configured system or a hardware problem.

    As for reasons to use *BSD above other operating systems? I use it because of the flexible software support and vigilant security team.

    To each his own.

    --
    Attention deficit disorder is a complicated issue, spanning several major... HEY LET'S GO RIDE BIKES!
  7. Excellent by thanjee · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Dru Lavigne writes so many really useful articles. Has she got a book on the way?

    --
    Saying your OS is the best because more people use it is like saying MacDonalds make the best food
  8. sense of humor by doiuf · · Score: 5, Funny
    Dru's written some excellent articles, and she manages to put in some humor as well. Keep up the good work :)
    "If you're ever asked to run pkgdb -F, do it. However, don't interrupt this command, or you'll end up with an inconsistent database. If you're ever in that unfortunate situation, this command will fix the inconsistencies:

    % pkgdb -fu

    That's a pretty easy switch combo to remember, as similar thoughts will probably be running through your head at the time."

  9. But.... by xA40D · · Score: 4, Informative

    Reasonable article.... But running an automatic portupgrage without paying attention to what's actually being upgraded is a really bad move.

    Upgrading Apache for instance will trash your running config. Whereas MySQL is a bitch to upgrade as by default it will fail if there is an existing DB.

    I find portupgrade -ai is a much better option.

    And a backup of /etc/ and /usr/local/etc would be a good idea first....

    --
    Do you mind, your karma has just run over my dogma.
    1. Re:But.... by OpperNerd · · Score: 5, Informative

      I always use the -P option:

      portupgrade -aRrPv

      this does check if there's a package available. Saves a lot of time.

      --
      -- unix is for people without a social life - Patrick van Eijk
    2. Re:But.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      always use the -P option:

      portupgrade -aRrPv

      I just click Windows Update, and click OK whenever prompted.

    3. Re:But.... by Fudgie · · Score: 2, Informative

      Upgrading Apache will not trash your running config as long as you remove the symlinks to the *-dist directories and make your own dirs. Which is the whole point of having the ports install *-dist files/dirs.

      MySQL upgrades just fine, as there is a flag called SKIP_INSTALL_DB=yes for mysql323-server. Set this in your pkgtools.conf and upgrade all you want.

      mysql40-server and mysql41-server don't require this, as they use a flag to install the db instead.

    4. Re:But.... by xA40D · · Score: 1

      No, /usr/local/etc/apache/ does get trashed.

      --
      Do you mind, your karma has just run over my dogma.
    5. Re:But.... by Fudgie · · Score: 1

      Oh, you mean httpd.conf-dist, access.conf-dist, magic-dist, mime.types-dist, srm.conf-dist, and apache.sh-dist? Look at the makefile for the port if you still think it hoses your config files.

      None of the Apache ports touch your config files if they differ from the -dist installed files.

      Most FreeBSD ports install config files with a -dist extension so they don't trash your config.

    6. Re:But.... by xA40D · · Score: 1

      No. I mean portupgrade trashes /usr/local/etc/apache. Not the port, PORTUPGRADE - the thing the article was talking about.

      Before a port is installed by portupgrade THE OLD PORT IS DELETED. Which I've discovered - twice - trashes the current config directory. Hence the "run interactive & make a backup" caveat.

      --
      Do you mind, your karma has just run over my dogma.
    7. Re:But.... by Fudgie · · Score: 2, Informative

      .. and how does portupgrade delete a port? By using the ports own 'make deinstall', which leaves your config files in place.

      I just did a portupgrade -f apache, and lookie here:
      -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 37691 Sep 1 20:12 httpd-std.conf
      -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 38645 Jun 23 17:57 httpd.conf
      My config wasn't touched. Maybe it happened earlier, but I've never had a problem the last year or so.
    8. Re:But.... by xA40D · · Score: 1

      Kewl, looks like you're right. But I I do a portupgrade -f apache+mod_ssl-1.3.28+2.8.15_1, I get this before:

      -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel - 20859 Aug 22 12:46 /usr/local/etc/apache/httpd.conf

      And this after.

      -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel - 47887 Sep 1 19:44 /usr/local/etc/apache/httpd.conf

      So it also looks like I'm right. Sure glad I've got a backup.....

      --
      Do you mind, your karma has just run over my dogma.
  10. my wang is dying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    maybe we can get the "goatse" and "tubgirl" trolls together with the "*bsd is dying" folks
    can you imagine the children?

    1. Re:my wang is dying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Moderation 0
      50% Insightful
      50% Overrated
      Extra 'Insightful' Modifier 0
      Total Score: 0

      wow, the trolls and moderators are one in the same!

  11. Might i suggest NetBSD, then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since that comes with about 'nothing' and one can about completely chose all the stuff by default. Gentoo is a bit like this as well.

  12. Re:YHBT. YHL. HAND. by Palshife · · Score: 0, Troll

    bsd is dood.

    Dude. Get help.

    --
    Attention deficit disorder is a complicated issue, spanning several major... HEY LET'S GO RIDE BIKES!
  13. BSD troll is dying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I mean, write some new material at least

  14. Haiku by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Upgrade, yes we must
    In BSD we all trust
    Without ports we cuss

  15. Is it just me, by luekj · · Score: 1
    Or are things getting really desperate when people start having to chat about updating thier ports?

    I mean, seriosuly. Keep that in teh coffe room with all the 'I just totally recompiled the kernel on my 76 Kaufna Commodore Toaster!

    Oh, and don't forget the classic "don't worry, I can just tty in later. Hahah! Get it? TTY, Later?"

    Okay, so I'm just trying to see how easy it is to rile these bsd folks....

    --
    Many Thanks,

    Luke

  16. Developer laments: What Killed FreeBSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    The End of FreeBSD

    [ed. note: in the following text, former FreeBSD developer Mike Smith gives his reasons for abandoning FreeBSD]

    When I stood for election to the FreeBSD core team nearly two years ago, many of you will recall that it was after a long series of debates during which I maintained that too much organisation, too many rules and too much formality would be a bad thing for the project.

    Today, as I read the latest discussions on the future of the FreeBSD project, I see the same problem; a few new faces and many of the old going over the same tired arguments and suggesting variations on the same worthless schemes. Frankly I'm sick of it.

    FreeBSD used to be fun. It used to be about doing things the right way. It used to be something that you could sink your teeth into when the mundane chores of programming for a living got you down. It was something cool and exciting; a way to spend your spare time on an endeavour you loved that was at the same time wholesome and worthwhile.

    It's not anymore. It's about bylaws and committees and reports and milestones, telling others what to do and doing what you're told. It's about who can rant the longest or shout the loudest or mislead the most people into a bloc in order to legitimise doing what they think is best. Individuals notwithstanding, the project as a whole has lost track of where it's going, and has instead become obsessed with process and mechanics.

    So I'm leaving core. I don't want to feel like I should be "doing something" about a project that has lost interest in having something done for it. I don't have the energy to fight what has clearly become a losing battle; I have a life to live and a job to keep, and I won't achieve any of the goals I personally consider worthwhile if I remain obligated to care for the project.

    Discussion

    I'm sure that I've offended some people already; I'm sure that by the time I'm done here, I'll have offended more. If you feel a need to play to the crowd in your replies rather than make a sincere effort to address the problems I'm discussing here, please do us the courtesy of playing your politics openly.

    From a technical perspective, the project faces a set of challenges that significantly outstrips our ability to deliver. Some of the resources that we need to address these challenges are tied up in the fruitless metadiscussions that have raged since we made the mistake of electing officers. Others have left in disgust, or been driven out by the culture of abuse and distraction that has grown up since then. More may well remain available to recruitment, but while the project is busy infighting our chances for successful outreach are sorely diminished.

    There's no simple solution to this. For the project to move forward, one or the other of the warring philosophies must win out; either the project returns to its laid-back roots and gets on with the work, or it transforms into a super-organised engineering project and executes a brilliant plan to deliver what, ultimately, we all know we want.

    Whatever path is chosen, whatever balance is struck, the choosing and the striking are the important parts. The current indecision and endless conflict are incompatible with any sort of progress.

    Trying to dissect the above is far beyond the scope of any parting shot, no matter how distended. All I can really ask of you all is to let go of the minutiae for a moment and take a look at the big picture. What is the ultimate goal here? How can we get there with as little overhead as possible? How would you like to be treated by your fellow travellers?

    Shouts

    To the Slashdot "BSD is dying" crowd - big deal. Death is part of the cycle; take a look at your soft, pallid bodies and consider that right this very moment, parts of you are dying. See? It's not so bad.

    To the bulk of the FreeBSD committerbase and the developer community at large - keep your eyes on the real goals. It

  17. Re:Turn out the lights, the party's over by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Amen to that, brother.