Slashdot Mirror


Software Customer Bill of Rights

Cem Kaner of Badsoftware.com has written up a Software Customer Bill of Rights. Very appropriate considering our recent stories about Microsoft viruses, Dell's BIOS-clickwrap licensing agreement, etc.

13 of 293 comments (clear)

  1. Live up to marketing???? by EDA+Wizard · · Score: 5, Interesting
    "3. The product (or information service) must live up to the manufacturer's and seller's claims."

    When has any product ever "lived" up to the marketing claims? If I expected everything I bought to live up to their claims, I'd be dissapointed with every bar of soap, every beer, and every Big Mac.

    1. Re:Live up to marketing???? by cyril3 · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Few ads make claims that are lies. Claims are either

      accurate but useless (shown in clinical tests to contain the active ingredient X, i saw this one the other day, I'm not kidding, they made no claims about the effectiveness of the stuff, just claimed that clinical tests showed the stuff contained one of the ingredients)

      or

      subjective as all hell (any adjective incl best, fastest, biggest, or claim to surveys, used by more popular cheerleaders than any other brand of laxative)

      If you can show they lied you can make big money. If they do lie then they won't have much money in the first place.

      Lies by omission are a little different but even in ads there is no law that says you have to be exhaustive, just don't actively lie.

  2. I agree with most of it... by John+Seminal · · Score: 3, Interesting
    The product (or information service) must live up to the manufacturer's and seller's claims.

    If I could have manufacturer's adopt one part of the consumers bill of rights, it would be to advertise with honesty. Do not sell me a software product which does not live up the advertising.

    The one part I disagree with is the reverse engineering. Companies have a right to sell software and to ban people from reverse engineering it.

    --

    Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."

  3. Re:Interesting... by John+Seminal · · Score: 3, Interesting
    The one thing which gets me about what MS does with their updates is they tell you they are selling you a good product when you buy it, but then a few months later tell you it is flawed. When you go to fix the product, they change the license agreement. I hate that.

    It would be like if I purchased a VCR which did not work two months later, and after I went to have it fixed, the manufacturer decided to "add a feature" which sends them data about the VCR. It is BS.

    --

    Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."

  4. Too much responsibility is bad for your economy by Boss,+Pointy+Haired · · Score: 4, Interesting

    some strong feelings to hold companies fully accountable for losses caused by their products' defects

    I can see where this view is coming from, but seriously; the litigious culture that is developing in the USA (and therefore no doubt on this side of the pond before long) could have a grave impact on your economy.

    You have to take a certain degree of responsibility for your own action. Otherwise, everybody will just be too scared to do anything, and every American will just stay in bed all day.

    You NEED suppliers to be a viable business yourself; and in return those suppliers deserve a leniency from you as far as accountability goes.

    In return you get leniency from your customers as far as your own liability goes.

    As the owner of a small software business, I feel comfortable with the fact that whilst I cannot sue Microsoft's ass if something goes terribly wrong; neither can my customers sue my ass.

    Swings and roundabout; 6 of one...

  5. Great, but by mcc · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is beautiful. Make it clearer, though, that we're talking about use licenses/single purchase licenses, not source code copy licenses such as the GPL. You need to very clearly define what kinds of purchases this bill of rights applies to, or software manufacturers will wierdly try to define their products so they fall outside the bill of rights' scope.

    I wonder what would happen if 40,000 slashdotters mailed a copy of this to their respective congressferrets?

    The only thing I would add is to see if there's any reasonable way something can be done about the fact the BSA has made it a criminal act to own lots of software and have less than perfect archiving of license paperwork.. I don't think there's any way that could be done in a reasonable manner within this "bill of rights" though...

  6. Re:Wishful thinking by s20451 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What you need is some sort of consumers' organization -- some sort of Ralph Nader type thing. There is a limit as to what one screwball can do, but a whole organization full of screwballs, all making noise ... even Microsoft would have to pay attention.

    Is there such a thing as a Software Consumers' Association? I couldn't find anything like that using a quick Google search.

    --
    Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
  7. Awesome, but they missed a big one. by tambo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Y'know, I was just thinking this exact same thing on Friday - that the software industry is having a serious identity crisis at present. They can't figure out what products they're selling, and how they're doing it. They're mostly driven by the profit motive: How can we generate more profit? Which is great if the answer is, "build a better product" - but crap if the answer is compulsory upgrades, limited-time licenses, or license audits.

    But there's a big one missing, particularly important in light of Symantec's foolhardy announcement:

    The software can be installed on multiple machines.

    I own a notebook and a desktop home server. I use both of them basically as a unit - sometimes literally, via Terminal Services or Synergy. They achieve different purposes - the server provides infrastructure (holding data, managing requests from other users [e.g., web pages], network security, MP3s), while I run actual applications on my notebook.

    With this setup, it only makes sense to have a roughly identical set of software on each. I don't want my word processing solely on my notebook, and I don't want all of my security apps solely on my server.

    So it's exactly that reason why this product-activation crap is odious. If I want two functionally-identical machines, I have to buy two operating systems, two word-processing packages, two versions of TurboTax and Symantec. similarly, with DRM, I'll have to buy two licenses for every piece of media I want to play. Others will follow down this path to the seedy underworld of profit-driven software.

    It only seems fair that I expect to pay only once per software package. After all, I'm one guy; I'm never typing on both machines at the same time. Now, I understand why software companies are reluctant to release software that can be installed a trillion times, because it tends to get purchased, like, eight times, and then widely distributed on IRC. But at the same time, they're smacking down guys like me.

    So with that in mind, I propose: Let software be installed on multiple machines. That number can be limited, and it can be small. Ten is fine - if I install software on more than ten machines, I should probably be purchasing a site license. But one is insufficient, in this day of frequent multiple-computer ownership.

    - David Stein

    --
    Computer over. Virus = very yes.
  8. #11 by __aaaehb3101 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I sometimes long for the 80s. Sure I might wait years for a software release, but with a few exceptions, it always worked. And it usually worked as advertised. I miss products like WordPerfect 5, it worked right out of the box. And if I had a problem I could call someone and actually get help, as opposed to a prepared statement.

    So I feel it needs another article:
    11. A software vendor will provide real support for the products they sell. Or A software vendor will outline in detail what; if any, support they provide and what guidelines they use.

  9. Alternative: Consumer Protection Labeling by FiskeBoller · · Score: 3, Interesting

    A bill of software rights may or may not make headway. However, it would seem to me that a consumer protection label could work, since the model has been applied successfully in other industries. What I envision is some kind of up-front, package labelling like the following:

    Caution! By agreeing to use this software, the vendor may access your private files at any time.
    Caution! This software is unprotected and may expose you to foriegn programs (virus and worms) that may corrupt your documents.

    The benefit to consumers, of course, is that no software manufacture would want to have these labels applied to their software.

  10. Re:Wishful thinking by mwa · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Why should software require a different consumers' organization? Pick almost any of these, become active and promote this as just another facet of consumer protection. Because it is.

    Any attempt to form a "Software Consumer's Organization" will have a BSA bullseye painted on it in a heartbeat. It would be far more exciting to see the Alliance Against Fraud in Telemarketing and Electronic Commerce (AAFTEC) decide that current software licensing practices are deceptive, fraudulent and unfair to consumers.

  11. Re:Wishful thinking by cemkaner · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There is no Software Consumers' Association, but I have worked with lawyers from Ralph Nader's Consumer Project on Technology and from Consumers Union on software contract law.

    When public anger with an industry rises, legislators get tempted to create laws to regulate the industry. Software publishing is particularly vulnerable because so many publishers have engaged in business practices that would be considered outrageous (and unlawful) in traditional markets AND because this is no longer a wildly expanding industry / employer in the United States.

    We can lay out some principles to advise those legislators, or we can lay back, and later complain that they got it all wrong.

    --
    Cem Kaner, Professor of Software Engineering, Florida Institute of Technology
  12. Software Publishers vs. Computer Owners by Dwonis · · Score: 3, Interesting
    The problem is the mindsets of both software publishers and customers. Many software publishers have this convoluted idea that, because they are writing software for a computer, they have some implicit right to dictate terms to the computer's owner. They seem to forget what I like to call the Golden Rule of Software Development: Software developers must ensure that the software they write obeys - and only obeys - the computer's master. That is, software is simply a tool used by a computer's "master" (this is usually the computer's owner, but not always) to accomplish certain goals.

    The Free/Libre/Open-Source Software (FLOSS) movement seems to understand this, but many mass-market proprietary software developers are still able to flout this rule. Unfortunately, most computer users have become accustomed to being subservient to their software.

    My own experience with most FLOSS has been much like my experience with high-speed Internet service: I can never go back. I think once people get a good taste of what using well-behaved software is like, things will quickly change. The only things that can get in the way of this change are: