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Microsoft Longhorn Delayed

skreuzer writes "Microsoft has once again shifted the schedule for the release of "Longhorn," the company's next major version of Windows. The product was originally expected to ship next year. Then in May of this year, officials pushed back the release date to 2005. But now executives are declining to say when they expect the software to ship."

17 of 736 comments (clear)

  1. Joshua... what are you doing ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    They're up to something.

    Microsoft aren't regular 'deadline'-missers - opting to release sub-par software instead just to reach the deadline.

    I'm guessing hardware and licensing deals myself.

    1. Re:Joshua... what are you doing ? by GuyMannDude · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Maybe they're just waiting for the economy to get a little bit better. A lot of companies aren't doing so hot right now and probably aren't excited about the prospect of shelling out tens of thousands of dollars to get a new OS for each of their computers.

      GMD

    2. Re:Joshua... what are you doing ? by jtroutman · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Consider the delays in 2003 though. It was delayed repeatedly because, they said, they were getting as many bugs out as possible. I think they were stung pretty bad after the release of XP which was worse than previous Microsoft OS's beta versions. Maybe, for once, they are just trying to do it right. It's not like a Linux disro where they can release version .0001b7 and then update it every month as they get the code finished.

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    3. Re:Joshua... what are you doing ? by TheNetAvenger · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think they were stung pretty bad after the release of XP which was worse than previous Microsoft OS's beta versions. Maybe, for once, they are just trying to do it right.

      We were in the XP and 2003 beta, and you are off base. XP was more solid of a release than 2000 even, there were several updates in the first few months but they were based on 'application compatibility' more than anything. (Because of the errors generated when a poorly written app crashed and sent a 'bug report' to Microsoft)

      So with these fixes, Microsoft made XP aware of the bugs in the programs instead of forcing the third party manufacturers to rewrite or rerelease fixes to their broken software.

      That is why the error reporting tool in XP works so well, is that the OS can be made stronger by fixing and working around bugs in poorly written third party applications.

      Windows Server 2003 took longer to release because of the re-written IIS and .NET layers. Security was also a main concern, but not because XP or 2000 were insecure.

    4. Re:Joshua... what are you doing ? by eidechse · · Score: 5, Interesting
      xp is just 2000 with a colourful interface and few updates for the latest hardware

      No it isn't. Win2k is version 5.0 (as in NT), XP is 5.1. That dot rev means more than a new gui, and 3rd party hardware drivers don't enter into it...it means changes to the kernel. Some of which include:
      • larger memory mapped file size
      • larger driver and system space
      • ability to detach from processes being debugged
      • callbacks for file system filter drivers
      And a bunch of other stuff listed here:

      http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/01/12/xpk ernel/default.aspx
  2. don't forget the real consequences for the web by gokubi · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What will it mean to have no new IE till 2008?

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  3. Re:No big deal by Barbarian · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Longhorn is the one that's supposed to add support for hardware based denial to your files when a media company says so.

  4. Less Patches by DarkBlackFox · · Score: 4, Interesting

    But according to IDC's Gillen, there are other possible reasons for the delay, including the fact that Microsoft's ability to rapidly introduce change into its products is becoming increasingly difficult.

    Maybe the "ability to rapidly introduce changes" can be read "ability to patch." I hope they use the extra time to test the security and operability extensively, to patch holes and problems before they reach the consumer.

    It's general knowledge that one should not introduce a broken product to market, nevermind try to cover it with patches. Lets hope they release a fully stitched quilt, rather than rely on customers to make a run to the local fabric store.

  5. Just A Coincidence? by MBCook · · Score: 5, Interesting
    The important part:

    As for the reasons Microsoft is further delaying Longhorn, one theory is that the company could be postponing the release of the next wave of its flagship products until the remedy order issued last year by Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly to settle the antitrust case against Microsoft expires.

    That agreement, valid for five years, forces Microsoft to make available for license the protocols between its client and server environments.

    "Once they get beyond the time frame of the remedy, they will be free to change the client and server protocols, which could make it more difficult to emulate a Windows server or client, as was the case prior to the remedy order," Al Gillen, an analyst with International Data Corp., in Framingham, Mass., told eWEEK.

    Does this fact seem to just a little to much of a conincidence? It would make perfect sense for MS to wait untill they can go back to their "old" ways again. That said, it will be a LONG time between product releases, which makes me want to agree with some other posters who have said that this suggests we'll see a Windows XP: Second Edition or something like that.

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  6. That's Not The Point by weston · · Score: 5, Interesting

    That's not the point here. The "when it's ready" release schedule in the open source world is a great thing. If MS has learned that lesson, we should all be clapping. MS may never give us open source/libre software, but if they produce good software vs "good enough" software, the world will be that much better.

    However... the point here is that Microsoft is creating an incredible window of opportunity here for their competitors. OS X is a better desktop system than Win XP. The open source desktops, perpetually behind, may well have time to catch up. Perhaps more importantly, with no new release of Internet Explorer in the works for the next two or more years, people might start to learn to look for alternatives and download browsers again. We could see a resurgence of competition and innovation in the web browser space -- and we'll probably get more standards compliant browsers in the mix.

    In short, yeah, it's great to pillory Microsoft, but the big news here is not the egg on their face. It's the chance to show them up, and take part of their marketshare again, while their product line is aging, their reputation for security is trashed, their licensing policies are painful, I/T budgets are tight, and really, who has actual *affection* left for them anymore?

  7. huge differnce by b17bmbr · · Score: 4, Interesting

    RH, any distro for that matter updates so many packages. with windows updates and fixes, it is for the OS itself. pertiod. when you consider that even rh comes with well over 1000 packages, most are third party apps, open source sure, but not rh apps. there is no double standard.

    --
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    1. Re:huge differnce by shaitand · · Score: 4, Interesting

      XP is produced by microsoft
      IIS is produced by microsoft
      IE is produced by microsoft
      ASP is produced by microsoft

      linux is not produced by rh
      apache is not produced by rh
      mozilla is not produced by rh
      php is not produced by rh

      each of the individual groups are responsible for the software they produce. Microsoft is responsible for any security flaws in xp and all the xp you mentioned above. No two of the open source projects mentioned above are maintained by the same group... there is no one person responsible for all of them.

      The microsoft apps however and their flaws are all the result of the shoddy programming from one shoddy company.

      rh doesn't claim mozilla and php are part of the OS. Microsoft DOES claim IE and ASP are. rh doen't claim apache is part of the OS. Microsoft does claim IIS is. Of course none of these applications are part of the OS (even IE isn't, the OS is the kernel not even the shell qualifies), but microsoft claims they are so it can tie them into it's monopoly and gain a monopoly in those areas either. If they can't take the heat that come with that they should get out of the kitchen.

      This is all ridiculous though, the number of patches released for a product are no gauge of how secure or insecure it is... the obviousness of though holes and damaged caused by them are, I think it's fairly clear who wins in this competition.

    2. Re:huge differnce by shaitand · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Actually kernel is a synonym for operating system. An operating system doesn't include userland apps.
      Which is why when refering to the operating system please call it by the name the author chose for it, LINUX. GNU/Linux is a name made up by someone who writes applications which have a port to the Linux operating system.

      The reason microsoft gets a few choice applications thrown in is that THEY insist they are part of THEIR operating system. That doesn't make an application like a web browser part of the linux operating system.

      For another thing, all of the security holes and bugs in those programs lay at microsoft's feet, they aren't merely bundled by microsoft, they are written by the same shoddy programmers who write the rest of it.

      Microsoft has gone further than call those applications part of the operating system, they've made sure you cannot reasonably remove them (no getting rid of media player shortcuts doesn't qualify as REMOVEING it.). With linux there is no application including the GUI itself that I can't remove... since there is actually an option whether or not to install this or that web browser, then those applications stand on their own merit and don't group together as linux. A bug in Mozilla only affects mozilla users (windows or linux mozilla users generally), a bug in IE affects every windows user because they can't get rid of IE even if they want to.

      Furthermore, according to mr gates 1/3 of winxp systems crash more than 3 times daily due to bugs in the OPERATING SYSTEM... and that's just the ones who use the error reporting service.

      It's not too late to get out of this pit, you can start using your mind today and find the link (i'll give you a hint, it was covered by slashdot) to the interview in which he gave those numbers all by yourself ;)

  8. Re:What can they really do? by ratfynk · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Integration is not the issue, the security features are the problem. They will have to introduce the features in MS office, which they have done. Then the processor encoded content locks they want are giving Intel fits. Microsoft has now got to go it alone with their version of trusted computing. What the implimentation is trying to do is make it so business can send .docs, xls, in a read receipt form. This will be set so that unless you have the security key to read the document you will not be able to decode it. MS is trying to impliment its own encription that will only alow other MS based systems to comunicate. The same old shit but with the twist that it is for your security that you must only use MS encript locks and keys. Intel is getting some kind of pissed at Microsoft because they need the high end server and scientific multiprocessor market to make their current Itanium processor line pay. So far Unix and Linux is kicking the shit out of MS at this, so the 3 billion Intel invested in 64 bit multiprocessing is not paying off. That is why MS licensed SMP protocols from SCO, they are trying to catch up to IBM and Linux but are having one hell of a time because the Intel 64 bit implimentation sucks.

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  9. Delay is good by cpuenvy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I am not alone when I say this: Windows 2000 is the best Microsoft OS since DOS 6.22. I had to get that off my chest.

    I think that the reason they are delaying Longhorn is because of all the bad hype they have received this past week. They are beginning to realize that people now are concerned about security. When they have to pay someone like myself $45.00 an hour to remove a stupid worm from their computers, they are pissed. They want to know why this is happening to them, and it is getting easier to explain to them that the Windows code is swiss cheese, since they hear it being confirmed on the 6 o'clock news.

    Microsoft is obviously delaying the release due to the fact that they had shit for security in the code they posses now, and they are bringing it to the table to clean it up.

    A man can have dreams, can't he?

    --
    DISCLAIMER:

    I don't believe what I write, and neither should you.

  10. Re:What? by Overly+Critical+Guy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Well, look, no matter what Microsoft does, people bitch. Now they can't even announce their product line without it being an evil conspiracy.

    Let's use this opportunity to finish playing catchup and then surpass them. People have been saying Linux is "ready for the desktop" since 1999, and it's just not, at least not with current offerings. Let's get to work!

    --
    "Sufferin' succotash."
  11. Major improvements - don't underestimate!!! by melted · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Longhorn will be to previous versions of windows what Windows 95 was back in the day - a radical change. Old apps will be supported, but only in compatibility mode (like 16-bit win. 3.11 apps are supported in windows right now). All the new APIs will be managed which means fast, secure and componentized. There will be new security model. There will be new UI library very different from what you can use now, and, again managed. GDI will only be supported in compatibility mode - graphics engine will change as well. This coupled with a shitload of other technologies will make it a worthy target for developers and businesses.

    Do not underestimate the power of several thousand quality developers fueled by several billions of dollars. They've hired out creme of the crop in the dotcom bust phase and now their workforce is better and more dedicated than ever.

    If they're willing to adjust the schedules on top of that, the resulting product may really be scary good.