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Slashback: Ascent, Patents, Transferability

Slashback tonight brings updates on iTunes music sharing (the mentioned auction's been pulled), the continuing fight against software patents in Europe, the recently scuttled balloon-record attempt, and more. Read on for the details.

Your ruse, your clever trick. On August 22nd, we reported that OpenOffice.org's OS X version had been delayed for two years.

However, bluethundr writes "Hold the phone! Is it delayed or isn't it? Well, according to this story in the register, it AIN'T DELAYED...just undermanned. Apparently there are only TWO (count 'em! one...aw heck, where was I?) developers working on the OS X development team. Dan Williams (who is one of the two in question) says that 'the Mac version is in a Catch-22: with only two developers, it desperately needs man power. But no one will join the porting effort until they see momentum behind the Aqua port.' Maybe some of the coders among us could lend them a hand?"

Too late for the colonies, help save the mothership. leif.singer writes "While there still is some time left, please consider signing Eurolinux' petition against software patents in Europe." You'll be in good company: vinsci writes "In their news section, FFII has posted a more detailed story: "Within a few days, the petition calling the European Parliament to reject software patentability accumulated 50,000 new signatures.""

Free as in FreeDOS Jim Hall writes "I thought I'd submit this before the news item fell too far down our web page. If you remember about a year ago, Dell was to offer Windows-less PC's, instead pre-installing FreeDOS. You can now order a Dell with FreeDOS (or Linux) ... and have been for a while now. They are pretty nice machines, too (3.06GHz). We have the news item (with links to Dell) at the FreeDOS Project web site."

Nasty worms ought to at least produce spice. The NRC released an alert about worm infections and nuclear power plants. This is a reaction after the SQL-Slammer attacked the shut-down Davis-Besse nuclear power plant in January.

Tomorrow is another year. RoadKillian writes "New Scientist reports thats the QinetiQ 1, the record-breaking balloon which was supposed to rise to an altitude of 40km (131,000ft) has ripped during inflation. The weather is unlikely to permit another attempt this year."

When EULAs collide. Yesterday's story about selling a song downloaded from iTunes seems to have an unhappy ending: sideswipe76 writes "As I was watching this auction today, it approached $16,600! Now, if you try and check this link from eBay you get 'invalid item.' Is eBay wussing out just to avoid any legal snafus that _might_ occur? Or did he violate some ebay policy? Thoughts?"

19 of 253 comments (clear)

  1. a PC without windows? by PopeAlien · · Score: 4, Funny

    ..I think right now I'd rather have a window without PC's..

  2. iTunes Sale by rsmith-mac · · Score: 4, Informative

    According to News.com, the reason they scrubbed the iTunes auction was because he violated one of eBay's rules, which states that "eBay prohibits the listing of items or products to be delivered electronically through the Internet", aka the "You can't sell it if it doesn't physically exist" policy. Such as transfer may still be legal, but it looks like eBay isn't the place to do it.

    1. Re:iTunes Sale by dave420 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      As was mentioned by another poster in the original thread, eBay regularly allows electronically-transferrable items to be auctioned. the on-line game assets (gold, weapons, etc.) are traded regularly, and they can *only* be transferred electronically.

      I guess eBay is covering its ass with that clause. They probably only pull it out when there's something potentially dangerous being auctioned, and let it slide when something the RIAA isn't going to get pissed about goes under the virtual hammer. With the RIAA in the trigger-happy state its in currently, I can hardly blame them.

    2. Re:iTunes Sale by superpeach · · Score: 5, Informative

      You can see the email from eBay to George Hotelling here, at his site as well as his reply.

    3. Re:iTunes Sale by bcrowell · · Score: 5, Informative

      eBay doesn't actually enforce those rules normally, especially if nobody complains. For instance, they theoretically have a rule against selling anything on CD-ROM. Some guy took my copylefted books, deleted the license and copyright page from each book, and started selling a CD-ROM containing my books. (It would have been OK for him to sell them, but it was a license violation to remove the license.) When I complained, they deleted his auctions, but he's still in business selling stuff like LOTR screensavers, porn screensavers, non-copylefted books, etc. -- all on CD-ROM. I filed reports on all that stuff, but they don't actually enforce this kind of rule or pull the auctions unless the victim is the one who files the report.

    4. Re:iTunes Sale by wizzy403 · · Score: 4, Informative

      From the auctioneer's site:

      [Update 09-04-2003 3:02 PM]:
      My GPG signed response:
      I do not believe that my auction violates the downloadable media policy, I posted in my auction that I would not be violating it. I specifically ammended [forgot to run ispell] the auction to state that the buyer would not receive the item in question over the Internet.

      Please reinstate my auction ASAP.

      George Hotelling

      [Update 09-04-2003 2:52 PM]:
      Dear George Hotelling (me@mydomain.tld)

      **PLEASE READ THIS IMPORTANT EMAIL REGARDING YOUR LISTING(S)**
      We would like to let you know that we removed your listing(s):

      2555673237 Double Dutch Bus by Devin Vasquez

      for violating our Downloadable Media Policy. Please read our Downloadable Media Policy here:

      http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/downloadable .h tml

      We have credited any associated fees to your account. We have also notified the bidders that the listing(s) was removed, and that they are not obligated to complete the transaction.

      If you relist this item, or any other item that violates eBay policy, your account could be suspended.

      If you believe your listing was removed in error, please let us know by replying
      to this email with supporting information.

      Thank you for your cooperation.

      Respectfully,

      Customer Support (Trust and Safety Department)
      Ebay Inc.

  3. Regarding the closed eBay auction... by MMaestro · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This may just be a crazy theory, but maybe the RIAA "told" eBay to close the auction. After all, if the auction had gone through and people were allowed to resell songs (as long as they gave up their own -only- copy) then the RIAA would have a new set of legal arguments on hand.

  4. iTunes not actually property! by rnd() · · Score: 4, Informative

    The fact that the auction has been pulled should convince anyone who has wondered that DRM is the only way for companies to profitably sell music on the internet.

    Incidentally, it is also a testament to the likely success of Microsoft's upcoming music download service, where you pay an annual fee and may download any 60 songs for playback on a handful of certified devices that are digitally tied to your account. If you get tired of some of the songs, you can turn them in and exchange them for new ones.

    When you think about it, this plan makes a lot of sense, since it ushers in the new era of portable digital storage, which you can plug into your car, your expensive Harmon Karden system, or your walkman. It also makes sense in that it will probably make record companies more money than they make today, while making consumers happier.

    Wouldn't you like to pay $120 per year and be able to "rent" any 60 songs at any time for as long as you want???

    Right now, you could buy 8 or 9 CDs, or 120 iTunes songs, which for most people wouldn't be enough to really establish a satisfactory music library.

    I know this post sounds pro-Microsoft, but it's actually pro-capitalism and pro-innovation. Capitalism works so well because it always encourages companies to come up with a better mousetrap, or in this case a better music distribution system.

    --

    Amazing magic tricks

    1. Re:iTunes not actually property! by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Wouldn't you like to pay $120 per year and be able to "rent" any 60 songs at any time for as long as you want???

      nahh I'll stick with the 6000 I permanently will have access to and OWN.

      how about the 6 albums a week I encode.... no not lame CD's Those strange black plastic things...

      I collect rare records, and in order to enjoy them I play them ONCE in order to rip them to mp3's..

      many of them I can LEGALLY share on the internet as they are no longer copyrighted.

      nahh, there's no legitimate use for P2P music sharing and unrestricted portable music formats...

      enjoy your restricted life... I'll stay with my unrestricted music access and the car stereo, home stereo, boom box and portables that all play this unrestricted mp3 format.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    2. Re:iTunes not actually property! by sageFool · · Score: 5, Interesting

      > Wouldn't you like to pay $120 per year and be able
      > to "rent" any 60 songs at any time for as long as
      > you want???

      No I wouldn't. So assuming I am not completely braindead and I pick on average mostly songs that I like, then on average I am going to be paying $2 dollars a year for a single song. Which given that I still listen to music I bought 10 years ago (along with all the music I have bought between then and now) on a regular basis that means if I buy the sweet alubum under this plan that has ten songs, it will cost me $200 dollars in order to listen to it for 10 years. That sounds like a totally Bad Idea[tm] from my point of view.

      I think the only way I would use something like this is if I could pay 10 dollars for a single month then go through as many songs as I could, to try and find cool new music (since as we all know most 'preview' clips kind of suck and it would be nice to hear the whole song in all it's hifi glory before making a decision) then just buy the albums of what I really liked.

      Yar!

  5. Re:FreeDOS? by Arandir · · Score: 5, Funny

    It's for all those Debian users who can't stand buying a computer with Redhat preloaded...

    --
    A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
  6. Music on Ebay by igabe · · Score: 4, Informative

    Just a thought, but I have a feeling that when bidding gets to the thousands of dollars for something worth virtually nothing, Ebay starts to get a little weary.

    I know that I once had the great experience of falling for a new TiBook 1GHZ for only $1500. Bidding went well above that, and Ebay then pulled. Turned out it actually was a scam.

    My guess is that Ebay would happily risk stopping a real auction for the small chance it might be a hoax(instead of vica versa). In this case on the chance the bidders won't back their wagers.

    --
    tilTrue.info contechtext.info prettypowerful.info twitter.com/frets fb.com/prosody
  7. Re:Not really by dave420 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    well, this link shows that eBay has a lot of electronically-distributale items up for bidding, so eBay obviously allows it, otherwise these guys wouldn't waste their time making hundreds of auctions for things that eBay doesn't allow. And, from what I read originally, eBay has had that clause for a long time, to fight off illegal mp3 dealing.

    As I said, they enforce that rule when it helps them, and lets it slide when it doesn't.

  8. Worms in Power Plants by benjamindees · · Score: 4, Informative

    One of the national news broadcasts just had a couple people talking about 'computer problems' as a factor in the East Coast blackout. A transcript of the first few minutes of the outage had technicians complaining that their computers were acting strangely and that they couldn't diagnose the problem because of that.

    The CEO of the company that had the 'original' problem asserted that there must have been systems failures at other sites in order to bring down the entire grid. He said his company alone could not have caused the problems that occurred.

    I wonder if any of the MS worms that were circulating at the time actually were to blame for the outage as has been speculated here before?

    The webcast of the hearing will be available here when it's ready.

    --
    "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
  9. Why use e-bay? by KalvinB · · Score: 5, Insightful

    E-bay is a nice place for the exposure if you can't get it anywhere else and don't mind the fees, but what's stopping him from firing up a site and taking bids via e-mail? He's certainly got plenty of attention.

    Considering a 99 million dollar bid was placed it'd also be handy to list all the bids placed allowing people to bid in between in case higher bids fall through. It was also aliviate false inflation.

    No point in putting in a fake high bid if anyone can bid lower.

    It would then also be possible to contact the losing bidders at the end and ask them to donate their bid to the EFF or whatever even though they won't get a crappy song for it.

    Using e-bay doesn't test the legality of anything relevant. It simply tests E-Bay's TOS. Selling it himself would test the legality of selling the iTune.

    Ben

  10. Re:iTunes by alset_tech · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Interestingly, the site mentioned above doesn't seem to take into consideration that artists average about the same 10% margin when their music is sold in a store. The site blames Apple for musicians being treated unfairly, but this has been the case ever since Edison (evil man) sold recordings on lathes and kept ALL the profits.

    I would applaud Apple if they kicked more of the cash to artists, but that's like asking Best Buy to pay a share of their profits to the artist. The distribution channel is not responsible to the artist, the record company is. That's where we should look for reform.

    Dan

    --
    Standing on the shoulders of giants.
  11. Re:iTunes by squiggleslash · · Score: 5, Insightful
    That is really pathetic.

    • It misstates the relationship of artists to iTunes. You do NOT have to be an RIAA-member published artist to get your music onto iTunes, and there's at least one company, CD Baby, that makes this a piece of cake with the bulk of the .99 going to the artist. iTunes insists on a middleman, it doesn't insist that Hilary Rosen be that "man".
    • It suggests that artists are ripped off by this system but somehow are not by Kazaa and their ilk. How? Not explained. Just repeated, ad-nausium, like some kind of Hanzo-San.
    • It suggests that making artists maintain the hardware and infrastructure for distributing music would, in some way, be preferable to Apple doing it and charging their 30c. Again, no explanation.
    • Ultimately the agenda is revealed in the same paragraph - apparently 99c per song is too high! It should be 50c! And the artists should foot the bill (as above)
    Downhillbattle is going to have an uphill battle unless it recognizes a few realities. Not paying artists is ripping them off - the music publishers may not be perfect, but if you buy a CD, you do ultimately transfer money in the direction of the artists, something you do not do if you download it from Kazaa. Rather than this mindless boycott campaign, if DHB really is serious and is concerned about artists (as with the rhetoric but as unsupported by every actual suggestion they make) rather than cheap music, they should be supporting the efforts to create infrastructures for the easy exchange of music (to the listeners) and money (to the artists.) I'd no more boycott CDs to help artists than I'd napalm Ethiopia to help the hungry.
    --
    You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  12. OpenOffice already runs on OS X by penguin7of9 · · Score: 4, Informative

    OpenOffice already runs on OS X. What they are talking about is a Quartz/Aqua port. But, frankly, why bother? Even if people use Quartz/Aqua APIs, OpenOffice still won't look or behave exactly like a Cocoa-native application, so it really won't be any more "native" than the existing X11 port. Furthermore, Apple's X11 server for OS X is just fine for running software like OpenOffice, it's free, and it's easy to install.

    There probably isn't much interest in the Quartz/Aqua port because there doesn't seem to be much point to it: it's a lot of work and won't behave much differently.

    As OS X becomes more mainstream, the "purity" of its user interface (if you can call the mix of Cocoa and Carbon "pure") will increasingly go away: people will port MFC, Swing, .NET, Gtk+, wxWindows, and FLTK applications to it. OpenOffice on X11 is just another toolkit. What people could spend time more profitably on is cleaning up the few remaining glitches in the integration of X11 with the OS X desktop. Most of those can be done fairly easily, but Apple might consider adding a small X11 extension that would allow people to add OS X-specific features to their X11 applications without a complete rewrite.

  13. Re:Not really by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Informative
    You have to send the user a physical item. It can be a slip of paper. What most people do is sell a slip of paper with a "password" on it, and you meet the buyer in-game, and they say the password to you, at which time you give them the item.

    The buyer is protected (ostensibly) because the listing says that you will get the item when you tell them the password, thus if this is not true, you are guilty of fraud. And you comply with the letter of ebay's law. I'm guessing they feel the laws are clear on physical objects and claims but not on virtual ones, so they're bringing all the virtual things into the real world.

    Makes me wanna go watch Lain.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"