First Embedded Release Of 2.6-Series Kernel

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First Embedded Release Of 2.6-Series Kernel

Posted by timothy on Monday September 8, 2003 @11:45AM from the even-numbers dept.

An anonymous reader writes "LynuxWork's BlueCat Linux 5.0, based on a 2.6-series Linux kernel, is now available for public beta testing, with a projected final release date set for November. LynuxWorks claims this to be the first public availability of embedded Linux based on the new kernel. Key new features include: improved kernel preemption; 0(1) scheduler; improved POSIX threading support; Interested participants in BlueCat 5.0 beta program may apply at www.lynuxworks.com."

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Contrast with kernel reviewed by Dedicated Systems by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-08 11:54 · Score: 0

How does this compare with the kernel that was reviewed [and thoroughly trashed] by Dedicated Systems last August?
PDF DOCUMENT: http://www.qnx.com/products/ps_neutrino/benchmarks /elds/qnx62_elds.pdf
quite interesting ... by Dreadlord · 2003-09-08 12:36 · Score: 3, Interesting

I wonder if Sharp is going to use the new kernel in their next line of Linux based products, I have a Zaurus PDA and I'm quite happy with it, if the new kernel gives s better performance and stability, then I'm going for it.

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The IT section color scheme sucks.
1. Re:quite interesting ... by xiopher · 2003-09-09 01:46 · Score: 1
  
  I was wondering the same thing. How hard is it to compile the Linux kernel into a form you can install on your zaurus. I know it wouldn't be very useful. But I'm a geek and I think it would be a great exercise to do.
  
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  7680 MB Disk,192 GB Transfer,
Why bother? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-08 12:54 · Score: 0, Insightful

Microsoft sells its CE embedded operating system with .NET support for $3 per license. At this point it's almost no price competition with Linux - anyone looking at selling 1,000 devices can afford spending 3 grands on corporate licenses.

And guess what, when something doesn't work as Microsoft advertised in CE.NET, they fix it. You call them up and get the program manager on the phone, not a dumb secretary, and you explain the problem, then they prepare the patch. Can Linux development provide the same level of support? Hardly. The competition on price is over, choosing between two virtually free embedded operating system it's safer to choose the one that consumers would be pleased with.
1. Re:Why bother? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-08 15:28 · Score: 0
  
  You call them up and get the program manager on the phone, not a dumb secretary, and you explain the problem, then they prepare the patch.
  If anyone wasn't sure this was Flamebait, this comment cinches it. That statement alone should warrant a Funny mod. If this poster is serious then he's been doing more KoolAid drinking than calling MS phone support. You know, I take that back. Just last year my Win2k machine locked up and I called Redmond and I got ol Billy Gates himself on the line, not some dumb recorded message.
  Personally I could never find any advertised statement wrong with CE because I always had a hell of a time trying to launch things from that itty bitty Start button.
2. Re:Why bother? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-08 18:12 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  Do you know the difference between customer support and enterprise support? Do you know the level of involvement Microsoft provides for anyone licensing WinCE on a corporate level for the new products? Microsoft would send developers and consultants over to the campus, provide free training seminars and a bunch of other free software that you would have to pay otherwise.
  
  Shut up with your "Any Key" and "My Windows won't print my AOL e-mail" complaints, that stuff used to be outsourced before (Software Spectrum, Moses Lake, WA, go check it out yourself, and as of recently was moved to India) and it is outsourced now.
  
  Once you get hired with someone with a yearly software budget more than $5 from mommy's salary, you will learn the difference and how far Microsoft is willing to go even for measly 20K (their whole Mobile/Embedded division pulls in 300M, which is pittance for such a huge company).
  
  Troll.
3. Re:Why bother? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-09 01:22 · Score: 0
  
  I forgot to mention that Billy couldn't fix my machine anyway. He was too busy returning phone calls to people offering him $5 per support call.
  Yeah, MS will come to your CAMPUS. Big fuckin' deal. DEC used to set up support people in permanent offices at their biggest clients. When you are a small to mid-sized company MS doesn't have the time or the staff to drop everything they're doing to answer your every beck and call. So wait, what was your point again, if you are big and important enough then MS will provide you personal service? Welcome to the real world buddy.
  Thanks, but I'll take my career to date and leave the toy and/or kludged OS systems to you shove-it-out-the-door Johnny-come-latelys who wouldn't know a decent scheduler if it hit you with a well-timed blow to the face.
  CE is just another of many examples of missing the boat on a market, throwing something together quick and dirty and shoving it out in the market half-baked and buggy and leveraging their market share and exclusive (gun to the head) deals with hardware providers, then very slowly fixing things until five years later things are about as mature as the competition was from the start.
  I bet you were one of the people who thought it was a privilege to pay MS to be a beta tester. They fuck you coming and going and people like you just bend over and say "thank you sir, may I have another." Do us a favor and stick with your VisualStudio and .NET toys and leave the important embedded work to those of us who know the difference between a thread and a hole in the ground.
4. Re:Why bother? by NullProg · 2003-09-09 05:03 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  At this point it's almost no price competition with Linux - anyone looking at selling 1,000 devices can afford spending 3 grands on corporate licenses.
  Drug dealers always give their wares away pretty cheap at first too. $3000 is about the size of my bonus last year. I'm glad the boss gave it to me instead of Microsoft.
  
  Can Linux development provide the same level of support
  Yes, we have boxes in the field which have been running over three years without problems. We only spent one month (me) on the initial development. What support are you talking about?
  
  and you explain the problem, then they prepare the patch.
  Using Linux we haven't had to patch anything.
  
  it's safer to choose the one that consumers would be pleased with
  The tvio users might argue with you on this. Our customers (enterprise) don't care what is in the box, just that it works.
  
  Enjoy,
  
  --
  It's just the normal noises in here.
5. Re:Why bother? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-09 05:21 · Score: 0
  
  The competition on price is over, choosing between two virtually free embedded operating system it's safer to choose the one that consumers would be pleased with.
  
  Yep, you are absolutely right! That's why CE embedded will NEVER see life in any embedded product I design!
6. Re:Why bother? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-09 14:01 · Score: 0
  
  It brought a smile to my face that your comment almost made myself, an accomplished troll, even slightly enraged enough to for a split second consider dignifying your comment with a response.
  
  Nice job, seriously. Well written, and I feel that with some timing you could do an excellent job stirring up a large number of people.
  
  -Shatai
7. Re:Why bother? by kpellegr · 2003-09-10 00:23 · Score: 1
  
  Of course, when MS releases a new version, they drop support for the previous one in order to promote the new one.
  Even yesterday, when I asked about support for CE.Net 4.1 for our BSP (board support package), they stated that they would only support 4.2
  At least with Linux, *we* can decide when to move from one version to the next!
  
  --
  We are drowning in information, but we are starved for knowledge. (J. Naisbitt)
Who uses them? by bluGill · 2003-09-08 13:57 · Score: 1

Nothing against the bluecat product, which seems very good, but why would you use it? Linux is free, and since their goal is embedded systems, I would assume the company has engineers on staff that can handle all the support issues, and configuring the system. With an embedded system you normally have a lot of work to do yourself to fit the system into your own hardware anyway, so roll you own seems like a no brainer decision.
Blue Cat has been around for a while, so appearently somebody is buying this. I'd just like to know what makes it worth it?
1. Re:Who uses them? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-10 01:51 · Score: 0
  
  While you are right that big companies do a lot to fit their stuff onto the embedded hardware, they really prefer to do as little as possible. This is all about added value. Most big companies create hardware and software, in which they see added value.
  
  Think of manufacturers of measurement and multimedia devices. The applications are their field, and this is where they discern themselves from the competition (=value). This is also where their knowledge is. Maintaining a big operating system is "just" costing them money (man-hours), and signficant amounts of that. They therefore prefer (nearly a no brainer) to have the OS handled by specialist firms. Only when they want a feature unique for them in the operating system will they invest time and money in that.
Re:Contrast with kernel reviewed by Dedicated Syst by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-08 16:27 · Score: 1, Informative

Well, for one thing the kernel verion to which you refer is 2.4.5!! I would say there is your first MAJOR difference!
Re:Contrast with kernel reviewed by Dedicated Syst by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-08 16:32 · Score: 2, Informative

How about this little gem:
Why did we test Red Hat Embedded Linux 7.2 in our RTOS evaluation program, although Red Hat and the Linux community clearly states that Linux is not meant to be used in real-time environments?
A lot of our readers explicitly asked for it. However Linux is not an RTOS! The reader should keep this in mind when going through the results published in this report.
Did you even read that article or do you make a habit of comparing apples to oranges? To pull up such a obscure link as a First Post leads me to the conclusion that you much work for QNX.
NO - Legitimately Curious by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-09 00:40 · Score: 0

Did you even read that article or do you make a habit of comparing apples to oranges? To pull up such a obscure link as a First Post leads me to the conclusion that you much work for QNX
NO - I'm not a QNX employee.
I am, however, about to embark on a huge project that involves real-time collection of massive amounts of biometric data, and I've spent the last several weeks investigating the state of the art of RTOS's.
We are looking at five possible candidates: VxWorks, Linux, CE.NET, QNX, and LabVIEW Realtime. VxWorks has a lot of market share, but the consensus seems to be that, under the hood, it's a little shaky. The consensus also seems to be that Linux just ain't ready for primetime; in fact, Linux realtime performance is so bad that people believe the kernel will need to be re-written from the ground up before it's ready to play in this league. Don't know much about LabVIEW Realtime, except that the National Instruments salesdroids are happy to sell it to you. QNX looks like it's got the nicest kernel of all, but it's not clear that it's got the driver & third party application support we might need.
Which leaves us with CE.NET: It's got surprisingly good performance [bests VxWorks in tests], it's got all the multimedia codecs of Windows, and it's got built in support for ActiveDirectory [so technicians could upload data directly into the database and sign their work right then and there].
On a purely performance-based evaluation, I'd probably choose QNX, but because of its flexibility, we'll probably go with CE.NET.
Anyway, back to my original point: How is this new 2.6.x "realtime" kernel any better than the 2.4.x "realtime" kernel that failed so miserably in the Dedicated Systems review?
1. Re:NO - Legitimately Curious by hubie · 2003-09-09 01:38 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Have you looked at ecos and RTLinux? I think there were one or two others but they don't come immediately to mind.
  I can't say much about LabView and CE.NET, but I do work with VxWorks and it is easy to develop for and has a reliable performance. On the other hand, you pay alot for the licenses. We're doing R&D stuff and we just can't keep VxWorks in our budget (we just want to upgrade our processor board and it would run us something like $7k-$10k). We're considering other OS options and I would be interested in any other observations you have. If I am correct, one of the things that is appealing about QNX is that for our R&D work the license would essentially be very cheap or free (I think you don't pay until you want to use it commercially, if I recall correctly).