Has Nintendo Lost Its Edge?

Thanks to GameSpy for their 'Spy/CounterSpy' editorial discussing whether Nintendo has lost its way in the increasingly competitive gaming world. On the one hand, an editor argues: "One of the few concrete things [Nintendo have] said is that the successor to GameCube is coming out sooner, rather than later, but what's the point if it's as lacking in software as its two predecessors? Or if the software is as samey as the current stuff?" But on the other, there's counterpoint and optimism: "In fact, it's the companies with lots of resources who are falling behind in the race who typically come up with the biggest and riskiest innovations. Given Nintendo's ability to create good hardware and its strategic position in the handheld space, that could mean some VERY cool things in the future."

Comments

Re:poor nintendo

[Mike Mentalist]

With such pathetically unoriginal titles like Pikmin, Warioware, and Metroid Prime

Those games are nowhere near as original as you think - ESPECIALLY Metroid Prime.


What Nintendo really needs is to start pumping out some derivative First-Person shooter titles with laggy internet support so I can get my ass kicked by cocky assholes with bad grammar.

Something that doesn't feature the Mario Gang and has a bit of ambition would be a start.

Nintendo's Problem

[incubusnb]

ok, Nintendo's problem isn't its lack of Original Games, Original games it has. Nintendo's problem is the fact that every game looks like it should be catering to 12 year olds. some of the funnest games on GC look like the type of thing that most grown Adults would avoid, who cares how fun it is if your friends are calling you gay because your playing Pikamin. I am a closet GC fan, i don't need everyone to know that every once in a while i need a Super Monkey Ball Fix. what Nintendo needs to do is put a more Adult face on these games without sacrificing gameplay. for example, if Super Monkey Ball became Pshyco Monkey Ball where the Monkeys where all phycotic killers trying to escape hell or something, more adults would buy it because instead of it being some cutesy wootsy furry monkey, its a ravenous drooling ape. sacrifice the kiddy image, kids don't buy games, cater to the people with money in their pockets, thats where success comes from

Re:Completely Untrue

[Mike Mentalist]

Nintendo is doing more innovation with its system than either X-Box or Sony.

Yes, the whole GC-GBA connectivity is SO much more advanced over online gaming on the Xbox and PS2 (yes, I am being sarcastic).


First, look at the controller. Sony decided to copy its last system almost whole-sale. X-Box is absolutely abysmal.

And what exactly is the point in totally redesigning a controller each time? The GC one is far from perfect - the D-Pad is WOEFUL, the sticks are different to each other and the Z button is useless.
The problems with the Xbox pad are exaggerated, and the Controller S is a million times better anyway.


Two words: Metroid Prime.

And how is MP innovative?!? It is just Metroid in 3D!


The newest Zelda game has some of the most revolutionary graphics I've seen in a while.

It is far from innovative, as it isn't really much further on from the previous N64 Zelda games.


Lastly, is there any multiplayer game more fun and unique than Smash Brothers

SMS is just an annoying beat-em-up type game, and there are far better multiplayer games available.


On the flipside, the X-Box's main draw is yet-another-first-person-shooter.

Whereas all Nintendo can offer is yet another sequel.

Re:Yes

[Mike Mentalist]

Endless games with Mario in them? For the Gamecube, that would be... let's see... Mario Golf, Mario Party 4, and Super Mario Sunshine? Oh, right, and if you really want to count it, Super Smash Bros Melee. With two more coming - Mario Party 5, and Mario Kart: Double Dash.

Yup. That's the GC library. Except, of course, for Zelda, Metroid, Eternal Darkness, Pikmin, F-Zero, and Nintendo's lock on the Super Monkey Ball, Rogue Squadron, and Resident Evil series.

Out of that list, all but one of the first party games are typical Nintendo franchise games. People were moaning about Lara Croft by the time Tomb Raider III was announced - I am sick to DEATH of Mario as he has been around for probably nearly 20 years.


As you said, Nintendo's games are not much different from what they did before. So perhaps its your idea of fun that's changed, not Nintendo's games.

Hold onto that thought for a moment.


In a given year, Nintendo will make 2-3 of the best games of the year. Last year they did Eternal Darkness and Metroid Prime. This year, it looks like Zelda and F-Zero, though with Mario Kart, Pikmin 2, and their Metal Gear Solid remake, all still coming out this year, they might easily get another. On top of these instant classics, they line the edges with games that are great and worth owning - Pikmin, Mario Golf, etc.

Perhaps in your opinion they will, but not others. The only game out of that lot deserving high praise is Eternal Darkness. MP was just Metroid in 3D, and not as good as I had hoped. And how can Metal Gear Solid be so critically acclaimed, when it is just a remake of an older game?


There is no other game company that comes close to that level of quality, for either consoles or PCs. Blizzard takes 2-3 years to come out with one game as great as Zelda, Metroid, or Eternal Darkness.

But Nintendo only developed Zelda themselves - the other two were done by other development studios.


So, do I think Nintendo has lost its edge?

I think Nintendo are the only people left who have an edge.

You yourself said that their games do not change much - so how can they have an 'edge' if that is true?

Re:Calling you out...

[Mike Mentalist]

But seriously, what didn't you like about Metroid? I won't even reply or try to defend it. I am simply curious as to what you thought it lacked.

I am not saying that I didn't like it, as I did. But it certainly wasn't as good as most GC fans made out. Not being able to strafe was immensley annoying. I know it had a lock-on for combat, but you couldn't strafe when moving around - so you didn't have as much control over yourself as you needed. If I needed to make an adjustment to my postition I had to move backwards and then forwards again.

Re:Completely Untrue

[Mike Mentalist]

he inovative point about Metroid Prime is that they succesfully translated a 2D game in to the 3d world mantaining it's roots!

Sorry, but that is not actually innovative in the slightest.

Re:Calling you out...

[Mike Mentalist]

Actually, if you hold down L you will strafe

But then I cannot turn. I meant that you cannot turn and strafe at the same time.

Re:Yes

[Mike Mentalist]

Mario's simply a character to Nintendo, not a game formula. It's kind of like saying you're sick of movies that have Edward Norton in them. Could be worse, Mario could be like Jean Claude Van Damme.

When it comes to films, you hear people saying that they are sick of seeing the same actors all the time - and I am sick of Mario.

Re:Yes

[Mike Mentalist]

The GameCube is not known for 'rehashes'. Now if you want to have a peek over at Sony and Microsoft's camp...

Nintendo have a habit for reusing the same things over and over. I find it amazing that you can point the finger at MS and Sony for it, yet not Nintendo.


Frankly, I think this guy's just forgotten what fun gameplay is about.

Strange as it may seem, what is fun to you may not be fun to other people.


You can look at Mario Sunshine and say "yep, he's running around jumping like in Mario 64" and then put it down, or you can say "Oh cool, now that he's got this water pack, I've got a whole new toolbox of snazzy things to do in order to reach those high places."

Either that or I could say "I did this all six years ago in Mario 64, and it is not fun anymore".
Is it really that hard to accept that some people may not like Nintendo games?

Re:Yes

[Mike Mentalist]

I think you're amazed because you think you know what you're talking about, but you don't.

Yawn.


Having familiar characters in a game does not a rehash make. Is What Dreams May Come just like Death to Smoochy?

I didn't say that JUST having the same characters makes it a rehash. But many of their games are rehashes, and using the same characters for nearly twenty years reinforces that view.


I think his point is that you've got your head up your ass.

No, it is the usual GC-owner response that signifies that they cannot understand why not everyone finds Nintendo games fun.


You're too busy saying "it's the same" and not looking at it more closely. Take it as an insult, or take it as an honest reflection of how you sound. I've seen so many people looking for ways to poo poo something, they miss it. Having played all of the games that NG's mentioned, I can say without question that we're not talking about rehashes here.

I have also played all the games that I am critisising, and my assertion and opinion is correct. The sad thing is, Nintendo fans just cannot accept people being like that - and it is pathetic.


To which my response would be "no you didn't do this in Mario 64 because it's not much like Sunshine at all really."

If you cannot see that SMS is very similar to Mario 64, then you are totally blind. It's been mentioned in countless reviews, and is one critisism that many people have said about the game.


That isn't the issue here. The issue is that you're talking out of your ass. It doesn't affect my world at all if you don't like Nintendo, but if you're going to not like them then at least have a good reason. Just say "My tastes have changed.",

Once again, it is allways a case of "No, the problem is definetly NOT Nintendo! The problem is YOU!" from the Nintendo camp.


not "Uh they're the same , at least that's the way it looks in the screenshots."

You are talking out of your arse, as I do own a Gc and have played those games. But hey, I must be lying, right? The problem MUST be with me, right?


Don't believe me? Read the other comments in this thread. You flamingo'd up big time

Oh, I have read them. I have had people saying that Metroid Prime is innovative because the transition from 2D to 3D was done well. I have had you say that SMS is nothing like Mario 64. I have had someone say that Smash Bros Melee is the best beat em up. I have had people saying that F-Zero is the best racer.

And you say that I talk out of my arse? Hoo boy!
I knew that I would get this type of response, though - it happens every time I see someone start critisising Nintendo games. Within 3 or 4 posts, the Nintendo camp starts saying that the other person doesn't know what they are talking about. I got a post modded down, and all I said was that taking Metroid into 3D was not innovative.

Re:Yes

[Mike Mentalist]

Heh, no, it doesn't.

Sorry, but you are incorrect. It is a commom complaint made against Nintendo.


Nice try, but no. This isn't Nintendo zealousy talking, it's somebody who's arguing with your details that sound an awful lot like frequent complaints made by the people who haven't played these games.

Nintendo zealotry is all it is. "You haven't played it" is what is always blurted out in response to critisism to Nintendo games.


If you cannot see the glaring differences between the two games, then you are totally blind. It's been mentioned in countless reviews.

Completely and utterly false. The reviews were full of comments about the similarities. What you are saying is like someone trying to claim that GTA2 is vastly different to GTA.


In this case, the problem is that you presented yourself badly.

No, the case is that as usual Nintendo fans cannot bear the critisism.


Oh I'm sure you picked it up, made Mario run around and jump a bit, and then said "this is just like Mario 64! Dammit!" Yep, the problem must be with you.

This is precisly what I am talking about. You cannot accept that someone will actually play the game and then make their mind up about it - the only scenario you can deal with is if the person has not actually played it.


As I've said, and you've pointed out, you brought it on yourself.

No, I did not say that I brought it upon myself - I said that I expected the usual response from Nintendo fans.


You came in and said something that's easily disputable.

No, it is NOT easily disputable at all.


Instead of listening to the disputes, you just sit there like "Man, everybody must be crazy for not agreeing with my half-assed assumption. It must be all that Nintendo zealousy! It couldn't possible be that people here see something rather obvious that I don't. Oh well, my dissatisfaction must be Nintendo's fault."

Listening to the disputes? What, like the usual "You haven't played the games!" and "You don't know what you are talking about!".


"Man, everybody must be crazy for not agreeing with my half-assed assumption.

Half arsed assumption is believing that SMS is significantly different to Mario 64


It must be all that Nintendo zealousy!

That pretty much sums it all up. Nintendo fans got their 'passionate' label for a reason.


It couldn't possible be that people here see something rather obvious that I don't.

Such as?


You should re-examine how you sound to people informed on the topic of which you speak instead of trying to blame them for having a rebuttal.

Oh good grief. The standard line once again - "You don't know what you are talking about".
So, despite having a NES, SNES, N64 and GC... I don't know what I am talking about. Amazing logic that you lot can come up with.