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China Joins EU in Galileo Satellite Venture
CHaN_316 writes "Yahoo has posted a story that says China to Participate in Galileo Satellite Program. 'The agreement provides for cooperation in satellite navigation, technology, industrial manufacturing, market development, frequency and certification'. This is definitely a good boost to the satellite program since it injects fresh cash into the project. There are probably strategic reasons for joining this network since it's an alternative to the American controlled GPS system. Here's more information about Galileo." China is also moving quickly toward getting a man in space.
i like reading news where china is collaborating with the west, rather than taking pains to block it out (eg great firewall of china)
:)
granted, this is a pretty high level program but the idea of it is good.
or maybe china is gearing up for a space coup to take over the world and we're all doomed. i'll need to think about the significance of this one
That they'll be able to use this in Wartime? If the US Govt is willing to alter GPS to their whims, whats to stop the air force from lofting a few ASAT missiles to accomplish the same goal? Taking away the enemies ability to navigate would be priceless.
...when you're cooperating with the enemy.
I mean, China's interests are not the world's interests. History folks: read it.
I don't know how to say this withought sounding paranoid, but just because you have a science co-op doesn't mean everyone is interested in the same thing. China is more than gung ho about this project because EVERY space launch technology is dual-use for military application. I think it is a little cavalier (that's "dangerous" for you folks in high school) to do anything that puts more power in the hands of anti-freedom communists. Look at what they are doing to democratic Taiwan if you want to see what they would do to Europe or the U.S.A. if they had the ability.
You're talking about a nation that has a reverse-firewall on the entire CONTINENT... to keep people from being "infected" by rogue ideas like ownership, equality, and government existing through the sanction of the governed. You're talking about a nation that controls the news media with an iron fist to keep people from knowing when bad things happen as a result of communism. China is the closest thing to 1984 on the planet right now. Do we really want to share technology with them?
From http://www-cgsc.army.mil/milrev/English/MarApr01/a dams.asp
GPS Signals Jammed During Tank Trials
Lieutenant Colonel Lester W. Grau, US Army, Retired
Based on 6 August 2000 reports in The Sunday Times of London, Agence France-Presse and the 25 September 2000 Elevtheros Tipos, Athens
The highly accurate Global Positioning System (GPS) supports modern ground forces as they move and shoot. Maps and compasses stay in cases as digitized forces quickly use GPS to determine their location and the enemy's. Although map-reading skills atrophy, few worry that GPS may suddenly provide erroneous information or cease working. Still, US Army equipment has already faced attacks on GPS functions--by allies.
In August 2000 the Greek government sponsored a tank competition at Litokhoro to determine the Greek army's next tank--a deal worth $1.4 billion for 250 tanks. Competitors included the British Challenger 2E, the US M1A1 Abrams, the German Leopard 2A5 and the French Leclerc. During the trials, the British and US tanks had navigation problems despite using multiple GPS satellites to determine their positions precisely. After the embarrassing performance, officials discovered that the GPS satellites were being jammed--by a French security agency. Less than a foot high, the jammers transmitted stronger signals than satellites on the same frequency. The jammers were reportedly hidden on the firing range and remotely activated as US and British tanks were tested.
Greek defense officials found the jamming episode rather amusing and discounted the associated technical problems. The threat remains: if an ally can create such havoc during a test, what effect could hostile GPS jamming have during combat?
That's exactly the sort of question the US media asks. And if you read my post again, you'll notice that nowhere did I say that china was better than the US (but seeing as you asked, I prefer chinese movies to the vast majority of the American films I've seen).
I'd be delighted - and indeed would dance a little jig - if the US were to say suddenly "okay, GPS is now under the control of the UN". But until they do, I'll do the next best thing, and celebrate a project that's a civilian operation that encompasses not just the EU but China (and probably more in future), and will serve not just as a safeguard against the whims of a single nation, but will serve to make that single nation's system more accurate and reliable for all users, be they from the EU, the US, China or Freedonia.
China says:
... and stop oppressing free, democratic people
We will allow the USA to "join" with us in our space ventures when they stop oppressing their own people
I was actually having a conversation just the other day about this with a military defense contractor (missile guidance) who just happens to be related to me:)
They are actually VERY excited about Galileo.. as it gives them exactly the redundancy you talk about. As I understand it, a lot of the rhetoric between the EU/U.S. has been very very positive about the project, which is somewhat counter to the sensationalistic viewpoint that most news organizations seem to take.
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Could you point me to the documentation that shows that the Chinese government kills off newborns. As I understand it, it's the Chinese people who do this because they all want sons, and the one-child policy is pretty clear.
Besides, what approach do you suggest to bring a 1 billion person population's growth under control? Basically China is doing now what pretty much the whole world will have to do at some point: population control. The Earth is a finite place, we just can't keep filling it up and expecting things to be all right.
In its entire existance humanity has never, ever, gotten its growth under control, but up until 200 years ago nature did that for us with diseases. (Look up population growth figures over the last 500 years, pretty interesting) Ofcourse, thanks to modern medicine we're going to have to resort to such awful policies as one-child-per-family sooner or later, there's no way around it. The longer people live, the fewer of us can be here. It's simple, and inevitable.
Well, either that, or we revolutionise space travel and export our surplus population to space colonies. Which of the two approaches do you think is more likely?
I think you are simplifying the issues a bit too much. Sometime the US and the EU have different views on how to do things, even if the overall goal might be the same. Of course the EU will argue for its ideas. That's quite natural and isn't intended to undermine US efforts.
In the case of the Iraq war the US went ahead with the war regardless of the opinion of the UN, EU (except UK), Russia, China etc. In that case I think it's actually the US that is undermining the relation, not everyone else..
Over to Gallileo. It's not a anti-US move, it's a pro-Europe move. Europe, as the rest of the world, is increasingly dependant on accurate navigation for many critical civil applications. Since there are no guarantes for GPS availability an alternative is needed. The second reason is economical or political: ensure that the European companies remain competitive within the satellite business.
I don't think Gallileo is a threat to US security. Most countries don't have cruise missiles or similar weapons that require satellite guidance -- I'm quite sure Iraq isn't an exception. Besides, if your main objective is to hit a base or a city you don't need that kind of precision; traditional guidance systems will do just fine in that case.
What a bunch of morons. As usual, people go off blabbering about things that they know nothing about. China already has a military space network similar to GPS except it is limited to two satellites and regional use. There is no reason why China can't blast off more satellites on its own for military purposes, except they do not wish to attack and dominate other countries like some other nations. The Galileo project is significant in other ways, not militarily.
This comment extends to the general racist comments posted on Slashdot about how [insert the most degrading descriptions possible] China/Chinese are. Keep on believing CNN + Hollywood about how evil China is. Keep on pretending that you care more about human rights and freedoms, especially for the people that you grossly violated in the past, instead of your own interests. Keep on thinking that the average Chinese appreciate being demonized and lectured to. Good job, continue your mental masturbation about your illusion of moral superiority. To all the racists out there, fuck off and die!
I posted a long time ago (before the Iraq war brought it to a point) that I think that the EU and the US are diverging and drifting further and further from one another. I've read enough political discussion forums to note that the level of animosity between the rest of the world and the US is definitely high, and rising.
I know that every time when a slashdot article is posted on some European, Chinese or Indian project of technical prowess, that quite a number of highly racist, xenophobic posts will be made, a number of people will pound their fists on the table as to why the USA system is superior and that the US military could take 'em all on and win.
And make no mistake, the US military could definitely beat any other military on earth in a conventional war. There are no nations with the American ability to project force all around the globe. The US economy is the key to the world's economy as is evidenced that other economies reel when the US economy takes a hit, and the US certainly does its best to strong arm other nations into accepting US economic terms, and is often successful.
But if there is one big mistake that the USA makes, it is in thinking that the rest of the world is incapable of learning from past failures. The EU wouldn't be there if Europe were incapable of learning from its own past failures. It's inefficient and clumsy but it is the best way for Europe to avoid going to war with itself again, and for European nations to get stronger economically.
Likewise, many countries are very wary of an America that acts alone and starts large unilateral wars for very dodgy reasons. Many countries are beginning to see that the USA is willing to use combiinations of military force and economic power to achieve its goals. These are the reaons that the EU has finally started to act on the idea of a European defense force. These are the reasons that the Euro is becoming popular tender in international commerce. These are the reasons that the Gallileo system is being built to avoid the loss of the GPS system in times of crisis.These are the reasons that China is slowly but surely edging into space, modernising its army and plowing money into indigenous IT.
All these things are happening because all those countries are worried about being dominated by the US in times of crisis.
And all this talk about nuking them (all those horrid countries who would dare to oppose the US) is plain rubbish. The US could certainly "win" a nuclear war, in that it has more missiles than anyone else, but at least some missiles from any opponent would hit the USA, and I don't know about you, but living in a world after a major nuclear war is not something I like to think about.