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RFID Hell
Matrix2110 writes "Finally, somebody has stepped up with an article that descibes the potental abuse of RFID. Imagine being flagged for social tendencies.
Gattaca is not so far off as we think. it is simply a pass of a wand for your embedded tag rather than a drop of blood."
The device described in the article is a GPS device worn on the ankle combined with a cell phone. It's an active device, unlike RFID which is usually passive and concealed.
This has ZERO to do with RFIDs or anything remotely similar to RFIDs. This is a combination ankle bracelet and cell phone and uses GPS.
Infuriate left and right
IIRC the technology in Gattaca presented a good use. Perhaps not the best example movie?
I'd really like to think that the people running our state wouldn't sink to this level. But the USA Patriot Act kind of disabused me of that notion. I'm offering donations for anyone who can make a device that will disable all RFID tags within a 50 foot radius.
why fight it, enjoy life while you can.. We have fully qualified & competant people running the country, George Bush, John "Super Hero" Ashcroft, Donald Rumsfeld, years of experience has taught these people well... Remember George Bush took a stand against human cloning and stem cell lines, we're in good hands.
Chill people, its all good..
Vote GWB 2004 !!
Frea of the potential abuses of technology are as old as technology itself. I'm sure the first fire starters were considered sorcerers who would bring the wrath of the gods on your village if they were unhappy (i.e. burn it down at midnight).
Technology is netural, people use it and abuse it, but it does not take an RFID tag to make a man a monster.
Ceci n'est pas une signature
Support your selected President in your actions and your thoughts or we'll know about it.
Its really about the UK employing technology to track pedophiles that has been used for some time in the US. Granted the parallels to RFID are there, but the bigger issue is whether one can be tagged after being convicted and serving a sentence. The laws in the US have flip-flopped on this one several times, generally the only time this sort of monitoring holds up is when it is a part of the original conviction of the criminal. Therefore, there are some precedents for electronic monitoring, the real question is whether they will apply once the private sector faces legal challenges regarding the use of RFID to track innocent people.
Children in the backseats don't cause accidents. Accidents in the back seats cause children.
'Because it tracks where they go every day it would mean they would not have to be picked up every time there is an offence committed,' Wyre said.
This logically implies that unregistered "sex offenders" WILL be picked on every time there is an offence committed, most likely before any serious researching is done.
So when this is extended beyond known offenders that means it will be YOU being tracked, your every move logged.
ToTal Democratic Patriotic Protection Act
They started with the paedophile and it was OK because those are law breaker.
Then they went on murder condemned and It was also OK.
Then they went on tagging all former felon. Ok those were bad people anyway.
Then they tagged people with bad social past and juvenil arrest since those were the one with the highiest chance to re-iterate a crime.
. Then they tagged immigrant and it was also OK, because those bastard are not like us.
Then they tagged people belonging to certain religion "because they might be potential terrorist".
When they came to tag me I was the only one left in the neighbourhood without a tag...
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
What's good about that?
Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.
Not nearly as bad as it first sounded. Yes, it is a first step and can be a proof of consept, but so long as it is restricted to people on probation as stated, then it's not so bad. With probation you are not free, you are simply watched outside of jail. Perhaps a slipery slope but it also provides protection for the person as well. Cops picking people up and 'leaning on them' is more tipical in movies then in real life, but it does happen. This would give the person the proof they need to show it realy did happen. If it works as clamed then it should only be a few years till it's used with all people on probation and could help both sides quite a bit.
Question reality.
I wonder how many paedophile MPs will volunteer for this?
Run and catch, run and catch, the lamb is caught in the blackberry patch.
One often sees technology being used to combat the symptoms of a problem. But fixing the symptom does not equal a cure.
Why do we have child molesters in the first place is the question that should be asked IMHO. Is it the oversexed society we live in? The furstration of men (it allways seems to be men) who can not deal with grown up relationships? Or is it our reduced tolerance towards such things?
Do not forget, not very far in the past it was quite normal to marry a teenager if the dowry/match/social status was interesting...
Im not saying that we should not care about child abuse. It is horrible crime and it must be eradicated. I just wonder whether we are dealing with it in the right way...
Complexity is a measure of our ignorance...
Theres already quite a few options for tracking in an emergency - mobile phones, credit cards, license plates, pay-phones etc. but they all depend on the person using those things. RFID tags would be another thing on that list but it would be much harder to avoid them - you would have to cut them out of clothes and buy things anonymously and if you did have a tag on you that could be linked to you then you would have to avoid all shops and anyone with a portable tag scanner which would be even harder.
The technology is there to plant hidden tags on people so potentially anyone, or any government agency (legally or not) could plant these tags without peoples knowledge and make sure scanners are distributed around the place - so basically everyones screwed. Using a GPS system like this will give you more coverage but its much harder to hide so you have to tell the person they are being tracked and that if they try and remove it you'll be there in 2mins (well actually i doubt very much that the link is live 24/7 so if you did rip it off and smash the phone you would have a decent amount of time to get the hell out of there).
RFID tags would be cool aslong as their are strict laws against tracking people and once you are out of the shop you are legally free to remove and destroy the chip (they should indicate where it is and how to remove it without damaging goods). While this makes it pretty pointless as an anti-shoplifting device it has to be done. Also they should (under the data-protection act etc) have to remove the serial number from their database. If your not paranoid then RFID tags would be useful for finding all those lost pens and the tv remote and letting your fridge track what you put in and its use-by-date and all that stuff.
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I think the message is that if the technology is being used on some people, whats to stop it being used on others. Although the technology probably wont work and could be broken with a hammer in time for them to run away. I think we (the UK) should begin outsourcing prisioners to other countries - we had a great thing going with austrailia we could just dump all our major problems there and that was it.
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As touched on above the tracking devices in use within the Unites States are used as an alternative to incarceration, not as a tracking device *after* a sentence is served. We worry about the infringement of rights perpetrated on the convicted but fail to realize that while in prison these individuals are subject to far more oppression than governmental oversight. I can assure you that while serving time within the walls of a correctional facility the precept of "tracking" inmates would not raise the first hackle on even the most liberal neck. Instead, release the inmate prior to the completion of his/her sentence and implement an oversight mechanism and - viola! we have rights violations. It is curtailing illusory freedom that frightens us. It was mentioned in the article that this "blurs the line between guilt and innocence" - I would think the real psychological struggle is contained in blurring the lines between freedom and incarceration...
What if this continues? As a teenager, you make the bad decision to shoplift and they plant an RFID on you. Now you are "stuck" with that label. Aren't you just a criminal too, who abused their rights. Worse was the nature of your crime.
Plus what is a pedophile in your opinion. Not all people violate someone elses rights. Who make the decision to tag them, who makes the decision to untag them? Can someone every reform? What if it was a 19yo having consentual sex with a 15yo? Now they are stuck with that reputation for the rest of their lives?
D.O.U.O.S.V.A.V.V.M.
Now you're getting into the old discussion of whether technology can be good or evil, or whether it's always neutral.
On a personal note, I do think that technology is indeed neutral, only its uses can be good or bad. However, regardless of how many good uses there would be to determining someone's exact identity from DNA (crime solving, etc), Gattaca was an example of how this technology can be abused. Determining your genetic risks for certain diseases can also be good, if used to help prevent you from getting that disease, but when it's used for profiling, it's not. The movie used it for profiling.
So where's the problem with RFID tags and the such, and Gattaca-like DNA technology? Can you really trust that it'll be used properly? Or are we better off not risking our freedom and living without any benefits said technlogy may offer? That's a hard question, and I won't even bother offering my opinion on it.
Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.
- 'To be able to have "Talk down" with an offender because he is in a high-risk area and likely to offend is the single most effective control measure that be applied,' Crosby added
IOW, pedophiles that don't want to offend again, but feel they may be tempted in some situations can be given a optional program where assistance is available to help them control their "urge".This is called "rehabilitation", a concept that seems regretably foreign to the Department of Corrections.
Even more surprising, it saves money:
- Wyre said the new technology was far cheaper than the current tagging devices used to enforce curfews and probation orders which costs around 500 per offender each month.
So, everyone either a) don't read the article, b) misunderstand what it says, c) misrepresent the technology used and then condemn a pilot program that is trying to help pedophiles help themselves with lower cost to the taxpayer and lower risk to the community at large. After all, this isIn-order to make them useful for many tasks (recycling for example) each tag must be linked to a public database to give you its value, content, material type etc. This will allow theives (above) to see that information too. Relying on a secure database will make that a target for theft. Unless people have the choice of removing tags some will be paranoid about them.
One way it could work would be similar to clothes tags you see in shops today - Tags would be fitted to mini alarms and stuck to the side of the item. If you pull it off, the alarm sounds (it doesnt need to be that loud to attract attention) or it could send out a radio signal. Then at the counter, the tag is removed and re-used.
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People like you really bother me.
Frankly, these perverts are lucky they have any freedom. No society can exist where people like this can prey on the young with impunity.
I'm 21 years old, should I be thrown into jail and have all my rights taken away for having sex with a 17 year old girl? When I was 18 if I had a 16 year old girlfriend should I be called a pervert? It's only a 2 year age difference but for some reason if we have sex it's statuatory rape and I can go to jail and be labeled as a pedophile for the rest of my life.
Isn't it great, a 50 year old man can marry an 18 year old but if a 22 year old touches a 16 year old he's a pedophile that should be thrown in jail for statutory rape for commiting such a perverse and disgusting act. And thanks to people like you they will have everyone knowing about their lives. When they get a job their employer will never know anything about the age of the girl, the situation they were in (did she consent to sex or not?) just "This person is a convicted child rapist and pedophile."
Reading through the responses to this technology, it seems that several issues are being addressed/readdressed:
1) Mandatory tagging of criminals - There seems to be a fundamental difference between tagging someone as part of their sentence and tagging someone after their sentence has been served (eg, after release from prison). The latter seems a dangerous trend since it indicates that the punishment for certain crimes may change in an arbitrary fashion, even *after* a criminal has served their time and been "rehabilitated" by societal punishments.
Granted, some crimes are heinous and deserve drastic punishments, but punishments should be known at the time of sentencing. Make the punishment as harsh as is warranted (eg, death sentence or consecutive life sentences effectively ensures that an offender never returns to society), but once a punishment has been fulfilled , no additional arbitrary punishments should be levied. Being unable to agree on what the rule-of-law is at the time of sentencing is very bad. A rule-of-law which is not transparent and clear is not a rule-of-law.
2) RFID technology is good|bad - Anyone who has spent their life thinking about technology knows that technology itself it neither our damnation nor our savior. It is amoral and merely a tool created and used by humans to leverage our ideas.
However, history has shown that we have a penchant for killing each other over issues with no obvious resolution (eg, Who's God is better, Who's skin color is better, etc). Technology just speeds up the process of letting us work out our differences, and, when that fails, subjugate/maim/torture/kill the enemy when they it is obvious that they will not take on our point of view.
3) The posters are "anti-technologist fear mongers" - since this crowd is generally very technology savvy, it is probably more likely that you misunderstand the message being articulated. People on Slashdot certainly seem to get more worked up that your general everyday nongeek citizenry. But that is likely because of the "slippery-slope" issues that are addressed. Looking at how humans use and misuse technology to abuse each other, it is often clear to those with a background in technology what form the abuses could take. Generally, it seems that humans eventually arrive at a solution better for everyone (eg, more tolerant), but only after a more short-term period which exploits the technology to the severe disadvantage of an unfortunate minority.
BTW, although annoying that the article is not based on RFID technology, that hardly matters in the grand scheme. GPS, RFID, biometrics, DRM, etc. are all just technologies. They have amazing potential for benefit of societies. But unless the potential for human-rights abuse is acknowledged and carefully monitored, things will get very bad before things get better.
No technology is without potential for abuse. Period.
Oh wait, the article had nothing to do with RFID? I mean, of course I knew that. I was merely joking.
Lasers Controlled Games!
the story's not about RFID, it's not about "RFID Hell", and it's about a good use of technology that saves taxpayer money and allows convicted felons to be paroled so they can live more normal lives while still protecting the community.
Yeah, hit that one RIGHT ON THE HEAD, Matrix2110... Gattaca, here we come...
...until now. Outfit the local gendarmes with these beauty's! Imagine using your GPS enabled phone to guide you to the cop posting a traffic citation two blocks down the street so you can redirect his efforts to handle the neighbor's weekly family dispute. Ahh..the irony...
So, I am supposed to feel scared because the government is employing know technology to keep an eye on these "people"?
Whats to stop them from expanding it to other offenses once this is widely accepted? And there are plenty of ways to *make* volunteers: "you can either wear this tag or rot in jail another ten years. Whats that you say? You'll be happy to wear it? Look everyone, another volunteer!"
Frankly, these perverts are lucky they have any freedom.
The point of a prison sentense is that you finish it and then you're done. Not that you serve your time and continue to be punished after you're released.
Concern about well being of a fellow human is fine, allowing it to cloud your judgement isn't.
Your eagerness to punish these people is clouding your judgement. Has it occured to you that plenty of innocent people are convicted of this crime? And the overwhelming stigma attached to a charge of pedophelia almost certainaly destroys your life, even if you are found innocent at the trial.
Very, very few RFID devices are active in the sense that you're using.
The power requirements needed to provide range, etc. are enormous and an active tag would usually be the size of a cell-phone and have about the same operational lifetime.
RFID is limited in range under most cases because of the power requirements and the fact that most of these devices have electrically small antennas, limiting the effective power they can radiate. Because of this, the devices in question have range limits- dramatically small ones and you can't say that someone like the NSA has the resources to detect them at longer ranges. The signal at 12 or so feet from most tags are so deep in the noise floor that you're not going to get enough coherent signal to detect it with any tech we are going to have in the forseeable future.
In the case of the tollway tags, they may/may not have a battery in them, but the battery isn't to power a transmitter, nor does it make them active. The battery is there to shorten the turn-on time for the tag. Most of those tollway tags have an incredible range because they're not transmitters or traditional transponders (like most RFID tags), they are very sophisticated RF reflectors that resonate at the specified frequency and impinge a carrier on the reflected signal.
Sort of like putting an LCD in front of a mirror to modulate what its reflecting back to a light source.
All the power is in the reader. And even these devices tend to have a range of only about 20-30 yards. The range is there because you're stacking the deck- if the tag is oriented wrong, you capacitively couple the tag to a larger conductor (hold the thing cupped in your hands), or anything other than that relatively precice placement and the range goes to practically nothing or the reader can't even see it.
If you do not understand how RFID really works, you really and truely should learn how it does before making comments about the same.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
The device in this article, as many have already said, is not an RFID. But let's take that one step further; a lot have also responded to state, simply, how RFID tags could be abused in the same way that this device could be abused. And they're right.
The Slashdot post that links to the article refers to the dystopic world portrayed in Gattaca, and states how instead of identification based upon DNA testing we could be tagged and scanned at every point via RFID tags. Also another technology, but a similar abuse.
In the Holocaust, a low-tech version of the RFID tag was put in place, as we all know. Concentration camp inmates were tattooed with unique serial numbers. It required visual authentication rather than just close proximity, but nonetheless could be used to easily track and identify people, as was its purpose.
Herein lies my whole point. RFID tags are like many technologies; they can be abused or used properly. Unique numbers tattooed onto an arm are a half-step away from SSNs that are needed in modern society where the familiarity of small-town life is no longer a sufficient ID. DNA testing to separate the haves from the have-nots based upon their probable health is a mere decision away from the same DNA testing that helps us diagnose and track many hereditary ailments, with the goal of one day curing them. And RFID tags promise tremendous improvements in industrial applications. Whether they are used to tag inventory or people is not in any way based on the technology; it's a matter of policy. Like the other two technologies described in this post, it is not inherently dangerous and will not be harmful unless we use it to do harm.
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
Pedophiles *aren't* in control of their actions. Think repeat offender drunk drivers - they just *can't* control their behavior. Chronic drunk drivers are frequently subjected to a monitoring device in their vehicle.
The pedophile is much, much worse than a drunk driver. The drunk driver stands some small chance of injuring or killing someone when they drive, but the pedophile who reoffends *always* hurts someone and *frequently* plants the seed that leads to another generation of the same behavior.
Consider this; for society such control means a long term (generations long) decrease in such problems, instead of paying to jail or otherwise institutionalize a dangerous person for whom there is likely NO CURE, they are again a tax paying member of society.
The offender is motivated as well; instead of slowly rotting in prison he is again able to work, live somewhere much more pleasant than cell block C, and the 'control' of radiolocation makes reoffending very, very difficult - most offenders in moments of lucidity welcome anything that will restrain them from further misbehavior.
I've trained police officers in computer forensics and its mostly used in child porn/child enticement cases. I've done RF surverys inside my state's maximum security prison. The father of my son's best friend is a felony probation officer and I cringe every time I hear another story of a third time loser destroying another child's life. I'm not sure whether the horror of the crime is perfectly matched by the horror of the state's warehouse for those unable to be left free, but consequences don't seem to be a deterrent in this area.
I think all parties benefit from a system that makes tax payers with supervision in the place where unrestrained predators and expensively restrained inmates used to be. Good for Great Britain and may it happen here RSN.
I am very easy to get along with, but I don't have time to waste being nice to people who are being stupid. -Theo
The original use for the RFID technology that one of my former employers, Amtech (Animal Management TECHnologies), manufacturer of many, if not most of the tollway tags, was to help detect sick cattle in a feedlot/stockyards situation by pulling certain biometrics off the animal through a backscatter tag as the animals were passed from one location to another. Some illness in the human species comes from eating infected animal flesh.
As for something that you absolutely need RFID for, well, I wouldn't say you NEED it, but it can help for things like tracking/updating vehicle registration, for example.
Another thing is to handle logistics (which is what in the hell they're doing with those merchandise tags, by the way)- or in other words, track things like packing boxes of shoes from the manufacturer to the store so they know how many got there, etc.
Sure, RFID can be misused- it's just difficult to impossible to do the things the people keep going on about with it. Simple physics gets in the way, for starters- the RF power re-radiated from a tag is miniscule and limits the range to about 6-12 feet and after that the falloff is a logrithmic function, with the signal going quickly deep below the noise floor, such that it's undetectable by most anything we can come up with now or in the forseeable future...
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
>Finally, somebody has stepped up with an article
>that descibes the potental abuse of RFID.
Finally?!!!
Use the search feature -- it at the top of every page -- and search for RIFD. Now what percentage of the articles DON'T discuss the potental abuse of RFID?
1. The medical and legal definition of pedophilia differ. An 18 year old can be convicted for having consensual sex with her or his 14 or 15 year old boy/girlfriend. For that matter, I know of at least one case where two minors (16 and 17, IIRC) were charged with a sex crime for having consensual sex. When I was in high school I knew several (underage) males whose greatest ambition was to have sex with an older woman (college, friend's mom, etc.). Those who succeeded were by no means abused (unless abuse is defined in a circular fashion), and I don't think their partners should be punished for increasing their popularity.
2. Pedophiles have a high recidivism rate, and this is part of the justification for permanent monitoring, sex offender registration, or "release" into permanent psychiatric confinement. However, other crimes with high recidivism rates are not treated equivalently. AFAIK sex offenders are the only criminals who are punished, subsequent to serving their sentences, for crimes they *might* commit. If we're going to punish people for crimes they have a high probability of committing, we'd better start locking up certain racial minorities, males, and poor people (one could argue we already do via drug laws, of course).
3. There are well-documented cases in which children were influenced (via "interview" tactics conceptually equivalent to brainwashing) by therapists or prosecutors to believe that abuse occurred, which was later shown to be incorrect if not impossible. A few of them are quite outlandish and unbelievable (vast satanic conspiracies with baby sacrifices were popular several years ago). Grep for "false memory syndrome" on google and you'll find plenty.
At present our society approaches child sexual abuse in a highly irrational manner. What really worries me is that this could make it *more* difficult to actually find, convict, and lock up the people who are abusing children (sexually or otherwise). Understandable or not, hysteria is rarely helpful.
Everyone seems to have missed the one truly scary idea in this story.
The electronic diary can be studied remotely by experts to build up a profile of the offender which will help them predict whether the person will offend again.
I've heard this idea before.
The point about narrowing the pool of usual suspects when a crime has been comitted is very fucking scary as well. What if a tagged individual is in the area when a crime is committed by an untagged individual? I sure wouldn't want to be in that guy's position.
The idea of tracking an individual during probation is not in itself objectionable. Those on probation are not considered absolved, they are still serving a portion of their sentence. However, the story indicates the promoters of this technology are not making much of a distinction. And that they expect the offender will continue to wear the device. I'd give this one an 8 out of 10 on the slippery slope scale. If it works with paedophiles, why not track bank robbers to ensure they only use ATMs? How about B&E artists? The system could tell the cops if they were in a strange neighbourhood in the middle of the night. And why not anyone with a history of violent crime? Think how many police officers would be saved by knowing in advance that the car they are stopping contains ex-cons?