Torvalds And Cox Write EU Parliament On Patents

replicant_deckard writes "Linus Torvalds and Alan Cox have sent an open letter to the members of the European Parliament. They ask for strict limitations to software patents, argue for open standards and ask the members of the parliament to follow FFII's voting recommendations. Vote on the controversial software patents directive will be on Wednesday and it is expected to be a very close one. Well, do you believe these guys have any impact in Brussels?"

Comments

patents for software = bad

[potpie]

I understand that one can patent a process for doing something, but one can also patent an end-product. A program is an end-product of the source code used to compile it, so wouldn't software patents, in effect, cause the much feared "functionality similarity" disputes to become more substantive in the legal system?

Re:patents for software = bad

[donnz]

Find a software patent and read it.

They are scary in that they often take a well understoof process and one that has often been computerised in the past. Then they write a bad "functional specification" and whack the words "internet" or online in there. Suddenly half your clients are receiving threatening letters from Canada for going about their daily business and the IP lawyers are making hay. It is all very fucking annoying and a huge increase in the cost of doing business. I's rather have the small loss of an occassopnal "functional similarity" dust up than this.

Credentials

[Foxxz]

Before you start the main purpose and body of the letter you might explain why you are a crediable person to listen to. If they aren't particularly technically inclined then they may have no idea who you are. Tell them who are are, why you are important, and why they should listen to you. Without that, you usually loose your influence.

-Foxxz

Re:sure they have an impact

[Sanity]

its unlike the directive passes.

Um, wrong. Those who understand this process generally feel that it will pass - MEPs consider it a complete waste of resources to vote down a bill that has taken months to prepare, and greatly prefer that the bill be modified rather than disposed of completely.

So in this case, the only question is whether it can be amended to address our concerns - it will almost certainly pass one way or the other.

And if it does ... so what? It is canceled in less then 5 years because of the trouble we will get here in europe with EXISTING foreign software patents.

Dream on! Your brand of apathy is exactly what we don't need right now. If the large software vendors can change the law to what suits them, then they can certainly stop us from changing it back in 5 years. This is our best, and possibly our last real chance to stop the damage being done to immigration by the unholy alliance of intellectual property lawyers, keen to milk the industry for legal fees, and the monopolists of the software industry, keen to let IP lawyers milk their smaller competitors dry.

Do politicians take any notice of open letters?

[B747SP]

Given the widely acknowledged bit where politicians everywhere will pretty much completely ignore anything you send to them in any form other than Dead Tree Format, I can't help but wonder, what use are 'open letters'.

Open letters are read by everyone else, sure... people on the street might take a look, journalists might use them as an easy out when they're looking for something to write this weeks column about, but does anyone have any evidence to suggest that politicians even know these letters exist?

I thought Linus was 'just a hacker'?

[heyitsme]

Linus has always maintained his reputation as a simple hacker-- someone not concerned with politics but rather technology.

This is the second such letter bearing a Torvalds .sig

Is this the start of a new (albeit, not necessarily bad) trend of more coders voicing their opinions on IP law and its current state of affairs?

Maybe not THAT open

[buckhead_buddy]

First, I want to say that it is fantastic that both Linus and Alan saw the importance of getting involved in this issue. It is very politically important after the disaster with "software" patents we've had in the United States.

And I normally don't publicly criticize anyone about the mechanics of their message because I spent my time playing Dungeons & Dragons in high school rather than paying attention to grammar and spelling, but I really wish that they had run this by a 12th level grammarian with +2 red pencil before widespread open publication. I think that the letter itself will have a large impact, but I wish it were just a bit more refined.

Addressing the letter to "the Honourable Pat Cox" but opening with a salutation of Mr. instead of President.
Leaving out definite articles. Using a mixture of technological, legal, and political terminology but not spelling out or giving background on the different terminologies. Not saying it's wrong or unclear, but just that it might have benefitted from a bit more clarity.

I am really proud of the Linux leaders for doing something so important and inspiring. If not to the leaders of the European parliament then to me at least. I just wish I had no reservations about the form it takes.

Re:I wish I could say it'll make a difference...

[Coryoth]

That's why I don't think we who value our basic liberties have much time left. Others might ask why I haven't moved (I live in the U.S.), without realizing that there really isn't any place on the globe worth moving to.

While not perfect, New Zealand is at least making some steps in the right direction. The Government is currently (albeit very slowly) looking at restricting the power of software patents. This came after a Canadian company sued a whole bunch of NZ online retailers for patent violations. Apparently they had a patent on automatically calculating shipping and currency conversion. The NZ companies balked and said shipping currency conversion was kind of obvious, especially when most buyers from a NZ online website will be from overseas. They have banded together to fight the legal action, and given that this amounted to a large chunk of NZs online retail operators, they successfully lobbied the government to look into this sort of thing.

As I say, it isn't perfect. The government hasn't DONE anything. But they are at least looking at it - that is, things are at least heading in the right direction for once. New Zealand has also successfully dodged a DMCA look alike so far after heavy public submissions when the government was looking at digital copyright.

Jedidiah

What can Americans do?

[user555]

I agree that software patents are a bad idea and I would like to do something to stop Europe from having software patents.

However, I'm not a citzen of the EU.

I don't expect politicians to care about the opinions of those who can't vote in their country.

But perhaps someone with more knowledge of the situation can suggest a way for me and other Americans to help.

Poor grammar?

[cca93014]

Is it just me, or does anyone else find the grammar, scanning and structure of this letter as very, very poor indeed?

Not only is there no explanation as to who the signatories are but also a number of the sentences scan very badly indeed.

I realise that LT is not a native English speaker, but really, it doesn't come across as very well thought through IMHO...

A patent policy aimed at interoperability

[Animats]

There are three real issues with software patents that could be fixed.

First, the interaction between patent law and antitrust law needs to be adjusted. If you have a dominant market position, you should't be able to use a patent to prevent interoperability with your de-facto standards. This is an antitrust issue because it's only a big problem when someone has market dominance. Interoperability with Microsoft Word is important. Interoperability with AbiWord is not.

This is not totally out of reach politically. Current antitrust law in the US and the EU arguably support this position, but enforcement is hard. A bright-line standard would help here.

Second, it needs to be clearly established that Government-mandated standards (ANSI, ISO, DIN, EU) preempt patents unless patent holders object prior to the issuance of the standard. The government standards organizations should be directed to adopt policies preventing the use of patented technology in standards unless the patent holder waives their rights under patent for all users of the standard.

Finally, "business method" patents seem to have been a mistake. However, the first one (4,346,442, the Merrill Lynch Cash Management Account, attaching a credit card to a brokerage account) has already expired.

These things do time out, and soon enough that it matters. The GIF patent has expired. The RSA patent has expired. The SyncSort patent has expired. All those technologies are still in use.