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Large Scale Management - Linux vs Solaris?

A not-so anonymous, Anonymous Coward asks: "I work for a college that offers undergraduate computer science classes, and the school would like to add a new lab with about a hundred computers for students to use, for various class projects. After some non-trivial effort, we convinced the school to set up a Unix lab rather than a Windows one. However, we can't decide whether to go for Solaris or Linux. Regardless of the cost of hardware, I couldn't get agreed with my colleagues about the amount of efforts required to manage a hundred of Linux PCs vs. a hundred Sparc boxes. I believe that there are many Slashdot readers are actual managers for labs like this if not in large scales. What are your experiences of managing Linux PCs versus traditional Solaris boxes?"

"My detailed questions are:

1. Compared between these two different systems, how easy to maintain the software for all these machines (including re-installation, patching, and updating)? What software do you use to make these management jobs easier?

2. Are there any fundamental differences between managing a large group of linux PCs and managing a large group of Solaris boxes?"

4 of 113 comments (clear)

  1. UMich experience + radmind by More+Trouble · · Score: 5, Informative
    We manage large clusters of both Solaris and Linux machines. We are in the middle of moving all of the UMich central infrastructure to Linux, mostly for cost reasons. The main difference is that Sun hardware is better in a lights-out environment. For a lab environment, this shouldn't be an issue. As far as OS speed, simplicity, and flexibility, I think Linux beats Solaris hands down. And Intel hardware is way cheaper and faster than Sun hardware at the low end.

    As far as how we manage our clusters, the answer is the same for Solaris, Linux, and for the matter Mac OS X: radmind. Check it out. It integrates tripwire and filesystem management. We use it for installation, patching, and updating.

    :w

  2. Other than installation and patching... by devphil · · Score: 5, Informative


    ...Linux largely wins. The Solaris kernel is much more mature than Linux (instantly earning me a boatload of kneejerk flames on slashdot), but their userspace tools are crap. The desktops shipped with Solaris are ugly and awkward to use, and getting KDE or Gnome to build and run properly can be an exercise in frustration if you're not familiar with Sun's way of doing things.

    On the flip side, installing a hundred Solaris boxes is trivial using their JumpStart programs. A new client system RARPs an IP address from the server, downloads a small kernel from the server, NFS mounts a copy of the installation packages from the server, and does a hands-free install. It's extremely flexible and has been ion production use for years. For Linux you're stuck with walking around with CDs, or using some kludge from sourceforge, or a less-well-tested solution like whatever redhat uses.

    Along the same lines, Sun's patching utility is designed with remote-boot or diskless clients in mind. You apply the patch once to the directory tree being used, and you're done. Something similar can be done with diskful clients. Linux binary packages mostly assume that the machine is on its own, so each box will want to download from a remote site and store a local copy, leading to atrocious workarounds like an NFS-shared /var/cache.

    Honestly, it doesn't make much difference. You'll be writing wrapper scripts and custom solutions either way. The difference will be in other factors, like cost of hardware or price of support or political games with the rest of the organization. Having managed groups of both kinds of systems in a production environment for years, I would probably recommend Linux to someone who is asking for recommendations. Not because it's inherently superior, but because you seem more comfortable with it.

    --
    You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
    1. Re:Other than installation and patching... by dfreed · · Score: 5, Informative

      Debian.
      Cron apt updates installed packages on the schedule you specify. apt-proxy sits between you and the net and keeps a local mirror of the packages requested, so 100 requests = 1 outside request. Plus you can add your own custom packages to it so that your machines are configured properly. Upgrades? Well by hand it's
      apt-get -y dist-upgrade. The stable branch is just that, and the testing branch is really production ready for most definitions of production. Please remember red hat != linux, it is just a distribution with bad package management; but not anywhere near as bad as Solaris package management.
      Why is Solaris worse?
      1. Solaris does not do reverse dependency checks beyond the parent level.
      2. There is no tool to verify that all the proper packages are installed prior to installing a new one.
      3. Sun knows this and their help desk acknowledges that it is a known issue. They also indicate that there is not plan at this time to fix the problem.

  3. Why not Mac OS X? by plsuh · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Not to start a flamewar, but genuinely curious about why you're not considering Mac OS X for this lab? It has some nice features for a CS lab.
    • Free GUI dev tools (XCode) built on top of gcc
    • XCode's fix and continue and zero link systems for speeding up debugging
    • XCode's distributed build system
    • Cocoa API for rapid application development
    • BSD-based OS at the lowest levels
    • Perl, Python, Apache, PHP pre-installed
    • JDK 1.4.1
    • Oracle, Sybase, MySQL all available natively
    • Nice low-level PowerPC arch with lots of registers for teaching asm classes
    • Altivec SIMD beats the living daylights out of MMX/SSE/etc in terms of both speed and clean architecture
    • Source code to Darwin layer available for free under open source license
    • Multithreaded OS all the way down into the multithreaded kernel
    • Rootless X11 server that utilizes hardware accel an optional install.
    • Vendor-supported Netboot/NetInstall with Mac OS X Server for easy lab maintenance
    • Panther (10.3) can tie into LDAPv3, NetInfo, NIS, Active Directory, and Kerberos-based directory service networks natively out of the box
    • Tons of open source software available via either Fink or DarwinPorts
    • BONUS - can install MS Office, ThinkFree Office, or AppleWorks and allow non-geeks to use the machines for writing papers, etc.

    Apple's prices for higher education are quite reasonable, especially compared to low end Sun-Solaris-Sparc. What say you?

    --Paul