Slashdot Mirror


Console Price Cuts And The Holiday Season

Thanks to CNN Money for their article discussing the state of the console market heading into the Xmas season. The author discusses the lack of major price-cuts for the PS2 and Xbox, suggesting: "Sony feels it can make more money this holiday season from its existing customer base", and speculating: "It's more and more likely that the reason we haven't seen price cuts from Sony and Microsoft is their next generation machines won't hit stores until 2006." If this is the case, it's suggested that "...the life cycle of this [hardware] generation will be the longest of any in the industry's short history", perhaps surprising considering rapidly advancing technology.

10 of 57 comments (clear)

  1. Diminishing returns by lightspawn · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "...the life cycle of this [hardware] generation will be the longest of any in the industry's short history", perhaps surprising considering rapidly advancing technology.

    What will a PS3 or Ybox or GameCylinder be able to do that current consoles can't? Higher resolution video? Better audio? More/better networking?

    There's little need for the next generation - games already look about as good as can be expected for a normal TV display. Why rush the next generation of consoles when the returns (for extra power) are diminishing to a point it's not trivial (for the average person, not for you) to tell the difference between the Dreamcast and Xbox versions of the same game?

    1. Re:Diminishing returns by grahamwest · · Score: 4, Interesting

      1080i and/or 720p HDTV at 60Hz will be the standard for all games on the next generation of consoles. You can do HDTV on Xbox now but going beyond 480p mostly precludes anti-aliasing and limits scene complexity because you only have about 1.2GTexel/sec of raw fillrate. Right now this isn't too big a deal because HDTV has limited market penetration but HDTV is definitely the future.

      Global illumination will be a big differentiator too - Doom 3 is the first glimpse of this, but with more powerful hardware lighting will get really compelling. Games like Resident Evil or Fatal Frame will be able to crank up the tension a few more notches.

      Procedural geometry and animation through shaders will also add to gameplay. A lush, dense forest with waving branches that have collision with the player and can be broken off or set on fire could provide a bunch of interesting gameplay in a game like Counterstrike.

      More memory and more horsepower will allow game worlds to be more interactive. Games like Red Faction and Otogi are a good start but there's a lot more that can be done especially when you add in a good physics engine. You could make a pretty cool demolition derby motocross game where bomb-cratering the track changes the racing line and sets you up to make jumps to new areas of the course, not to mention spattering nearby cars with mud to reduce their visibility.

      Gamers want compelling and intensely involving experiences. Presentation is part of how you achieve that involvement. If you're willing to make your game world's representation more abstract you can cut back on the amount of computing power needed to express it, but that isn't what gamers pay for.

      --
      Graham
    2. Re:Diminishing returns by Kris_J · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Better physics, no objects passing-through other objects, better AI. There's heaps of room to move, just not in the eye-candy area.

    3. Re:Diminishing returns by CaptMonkeyDLuffy · · Score: 2, Informative

      Just a quick FYI to tag in here, but the Cube supports 480p as well... No higher resolutions, but it does manage progressive scan, and I at least find it a rather noticeable improvement.

      And, I'm not certain about the Xbox, but I know on the Cube side of things the 480p support varies by game(whether its present or not), I believe the XBox has a similar situation, though I'm not certain.

    4. Re:Diminishing returns by grahamwest · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes, I should've mentioned that GameCube also does 480p. You are also correct that support for this varies a lot from game to game on GameCube. This is for multiple reasons, some technical and some process/testing related. On Xbox you get 480p support basically for free since there's no extra game UI, you're already spending the memory and fillrate for full-height framebuffers and the video circuit setup automatically engages 480p (as long as it's valid and enabled in the dashboard) unless your code specifically tells it not to. As a result there are only a handful of Xbox games which do not run in 480p.

      It's fun to show Star Fox Adventures on GameCube and Panzer Dragoon Orta on Xbox to people who don't appreciate how much widescreen and HDTV adds to the gaming experience.

      --
      Graham
  2. Longest What? by TiredGamer · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Let's get a quick-n-dirty rundown...

    Atari 2600: 1977 to ~1984 (~7 yrs)

    Nintendo Famicom: 1983 to 1990 (7 yrs)
    Sega SG-x000 (later Sega Master System): 1983 to ~1988 (5 yrs)

    Sega MegaDrive/Genesis: 1988 to 1994 (6 yrs)
    Nintendo Super Famicom: 1990 to 1996 (6 yrs)

    Sony Playstation: 1994 to (1999, but now rereleased as PSOne today)
    Sega Saturn 1994 to 1998 (4 yrs)
    Nintendo 64: 1996 to 2001 (5 yrs)

    Sega Dreamcast 1998 to 2003 (5 yrs)
    Sony Playstation 2: 1999 to ?
    Nintendo GameCube: 2001 to ?
    Microsoft Xbox: 2001 to ?

    The video game industry is well over 30 years old, with the Magnavox Odyssey released in January 1972. It is just plain wrong to say the video game industry is young.

    As for this being the longer generation, that's a hard claim to pin down. You can't really say "X generation lasted Y years" because consoles are not released all at once. The 8-bit generation either lasted until the introduction of the Sega Genesis in 1988, or it ended when Nintendo began selling the Super Famicom in 1990? (Or you could even say it never really ended, since Nintendo was still producing Famicoms long after 1990.)

    I suppose you could say the Sega Dreamcast marks the start of this generation in 1998, and then if the first next-generation console comes out in 2006 it would make this the longest run without new blood. But wait, couldn't you say the Microsoft Xbox is "next-generation" along with the GameCube, having almost double the power of the Dreamcast and PS2?

    Or you could ignore all of this, realize that we're all just waiting for "the next big thing" and start saving your pennies now. ; )

    This site and Google are your friends.

    --
    No penguins were harmed in the making of this post.
  3. Rumors ? Somebody must know ... by snowtigger · · Score: 2, Informative

    I am rather surprised of how nobody seems to "know" when the next generation consoles will be out.

    When I spoke to some Xbox developers, they told us that they received a test machine (standard PC) about two years before the official launch. Then some other test hardware dropped in from time to time.

    Considering that developing a game takes around two years, we should be getting indications in advance. The developer scene for Xbox is growing bigger (google for xbox development), so I expect them to have a difficult time keeping this one secret.

    To show off a new console would be hard without cool games. Simply porting existing games would be too easy, since you wouldn't use all the potential in the console and miss the cool-factor. The least thing to do would be to create new graphics to make up for the advances in the graphics chip.

    The same thing goes for the GameCube and the PS2
    ---
    If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up space in the middle

  4. Submitter, please think a little more about it by NanoGator · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "perhaps surprising considering rapidly advancing technology. "

    No, not surprising at all. Consoles are so powerful today that the visual difference from game to game is limited mainly by the artists. There's enough you can do in real time that a doubling or quadrupling in processor speed isn't going to make $300 worth of difference to the consumer.

    The next big upgrade people will be excited about is the ability to do CG in real-time comparable to the stuff we've seen come out of Pixar. Perfectly smooth, anti-aliased, nice shadows, bright color, etc. Unfortunately, consoles are still a ways away from that. What's worse is that when they do reach that point, then what?

    I'm not the least bit surprised that niether Sony nor Microsoft are backburnering their next consoles. Unless they can deliver a 'holy shit!' product, they're going to find themselves nicely saturated. They need to be careful, though, they're leaving the door wide open for Nintendo. And those dudes sure like to innovate. Who here wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Nintendo's successor to the GameCube was portable? THat may not sound so exciting in light of Sony's PSP, but then again it would have Nintendo's support fully behind it as well as third parties dedicated to it.

    --
    "Derp de derp."
  5. Re:Backwards compatibility by NanoGator · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "As long as I can play my ps1/ps2 games on my ps3 I will be happy. If only Nintendo would add a port for NES carts... I could finally mothball my old system. "

    Am I in the minority who thinks that backwards compatibility isn't all that exciting? Now, I'm willing to grant you that it's hard to find a working NES system today. Those things broke down quick. But except for the NES, why isn't your old system around to play on?

    I just never really considered that a big selling point. It's kind of neat in a way, I mean if I want to consolidate systems it's kind of useful. But it's not something that makes me pick one over another. I like new games, especially if I still have the ability to play the old ones either way.

    (Note: I really am asking for insight here, not trying to put you down or argue with you. I'm not sure I'm being tactful enough, though. I'm sorry if that's the case.)

    --
    "Derp de derp."
  6. What I'd like to see in future console releases by tuxedobob · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Since this thread has quickly turned into this anyway, here's what I think the industry should be aiming for in its next releases.

    • Native HDTV resolutions up to 720p/1080i
    • 3D audio processed in dedicated hardware (It'd be nice if the programmer only needed to specify the x/y/z-coordinates and volume of a sound, for example.)
    • Optical and coaxial audio output for at least 5.1 output to a receiver (available to games!)
    • Speaker-wire output for at least a 4-speaker output (I really wanted this one before I got a receiver, but I imagine there are power issues with this.
    • Hard Disk (Not an XBox fan, but I gotta admit; I'm sure it's handy.)
    • Built-in ethernet/modem adapters
    • At least 4 controller ports
    • Optional keyboard/mouse which together only use one port
    • Cheap (With the above? Yeah, right!)