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U.S. Court: Lexmark Can Tie Rebates To Refills

SteveOU writes "Lexmark won a favorable judgement in its attempt to prevent competitors from refilling its cartridges. The judgement, issued by Judge Saundra Brown Armstrong of the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California, was a big loss for 'the rest of us,' reading in part "Because of its patents, Lexmark has the right to impose conditions on the sale of its patented product. It may restrict a purchaser's ability to repair it, which is what in essence the single-use condition does." What now? Will GM prohibit unauthorized repairs of its patented car components?"

13 of 365 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Yea but. by TheLinuxSRC · · Score: 2, Informative

    It is my understanding that the automobile industry tried exactly the same thing with regard to routine maintenance (If you did not get your oil changed at the manufacturers dealership, your warranty was void) and ended up getting in a heap of trouble for it.

    Is this not exactly the same thing?

  2. BMW does it by TekkaDon · · Score: 3, Informative

    At least for BMW's Mini car here in Spain. If you buy a Mini and try to repair it outside an official BMW/Mini repair shop or install anything that is not officially sanctioned by BMW, your guarantee will be void.

    So with that information, either you buy the car or you don't, but you can't hardly complain if they explain this to you when you buy the car. It's their way or the highway, with another car.

    So, like with the Lexmark (if they also warn the potential buyer), the choice is in the consumer hands.

    j.

    1. Re:BMW does it by kfg · · Score: 3, Informative

      Oddly enough this tactic was tried many, many years ago here in America and declared illegal.

      You can have your car serviced anywhere you like, or do it yourself, and it doesn't void your guaruntee.

      This is not to say it won't effect your guaruntee. If you put full race cams and a cheap turbo on your car and blow the engine up that isn't due to faulty design or manufacturing. Buy a new engine.

      But if you have your oil changed at Jiffy-Lube and a con rod fractures that's a defect and they can't get out of it by saying they didn't service the car.

      This doesn't mean that there aren't unscrupulous dealers who will claim otherwise, but that's why they're unscrupulous.

      That's what makes this particular rule somewhat puzzling. It flies in the face of decades of case law and centuries of American legal and cultural tradition.

      Most puzzling about it is the way it overreaches the actual issue at law.

      Ah well. That's why God invented Appellate Courts I suppose.

      KFG

    2. Re:BMW does it by barzok · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's called the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act of 1974. Anyone who's into repairing or modifying their own car should be be aware of it. Also see SEMA's page on the issue.

    3. Re:BMW does it by kfg · · Score: 3, Informative

      And that act, like many consumer protection laws, is merely the legislative codification of case law that predates it by decades.

      KFG

  3. Re:Market can solve this, buy Canon by VCAGuy · · Score: 2, Informative
    For me personally, operating costs are more significant than print speed or even print quality.

    That's why I've always used laser printers whenever possible [ok, not always, before lasers were around I used dot matrices]. My big points on a printer are operating costs, speed, and utter dependability. My dear mother had a cow when I told her I spent ~$1500 on a Color LaserJet 4550 ("you spent fifteen hundred on a WHAT?")...but, after realizing how much cheaper it was, she apologized for her fit of rage...

    --
    Q: "Why do sound techs say 'check 1, 2'?"
    A: "Cause if they could count any higher they'd be lighting techs."
  4. Re:Market can solve this, buy Canon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    I'm always amazed that magazines don't talk about cartridge costs in their printer reviews, but I think that if everyone just got in the habit of including operating costs in any discussion of printers, the problem would go away on its own.
    All the UK magazines seem to print a per page cost for various typical print jobs. Maybe you should look for better magazines?

    Of course it seems to have had very little effect on cartridge lockin anyway. Good thing the EU legislated to outlaw refilling restrictions.

  5. Boycott Lexmark by gvc · · Score: 4, Informative

    I have boycotted Lexmark for some time due to their gouging on refills. I am also proud author of an expose on how to use Samsung cartridges in a Lexmark E210 printer, at 2/3 the cost.

    I wonder if use of a Philips screwdriver violates the DMCA? The modification involves removing a tab in the printer that matches a slot in the cartridge casting. I suppose this could be considered a digital rights management device.

  6. Re:Market can solve this, buy Canon by VCAGuy · · Score: 2, Informative

    I've run a little over 20,000 pages on my CLJ4550 this year...the split on that is about 60%/40% color/grayscale...so, yeah, my "HP Professional Inkjet" was killing me in terms of consumables.

    --
    Q: "Why do sound techs say 'check 1, 2'?"
    A: "Cause if they could count any higher they'd be lighting techs."
  7. Too bad it's weekend. by SharpFang · · Score: 2, Informative

    ...but you can still call the "dealer" line.
    Just tell them what you think...

    http://www.lexmark.com/US/contact_us_detail/0,13 50 ,MTkyfDE=,00.html

    Contact Us

    Call Us

    Ordering parts and supplies
    1-800-LEXMARK or 1-800-539-6275
    Monday - Friday 9 a.m. - 8 p.m. EST
    Closed weekends

    Questions before you buy
    1-800-LEXMARK or 1-800-539-6275
    Monday - Friday 9 a.m. - 8 p.m. EST
    Closed weekends

    http://www.lexmark.com/US/contact_us_detail/0,13 50 ,NTl8MQ==,00.html

    Contact Us

    Authorized Lexmark Dealers

    Support Lines

    Single point of contact for new products & information, including: Presales, Ordering, & the Technical Support Center.

    Phone: for Inkjet Printers
    1-800-332-4120

    Phone: for Laser Printers
    1-800-LEXMARK (1-800-539-6275)

    Technical Support

    Dealer can call the Technical Support Center to get help on resolving technical issues involving Lexmark printers.

    LexFax For Dealers (Fax on Demand System)

    FAQs and Product Information via facsimile.

    1-800-4LEXFAX
    (1-800-453-9323)
    + Dealer ID

    24 hours
    7 days/week

    Warranty Claims

    Warranty reimbursement for Authorized Dealers.

    1-800-253-9627

    Mon - Fri
    8:30am - 7pm EST
    Closed Weekends

    --
    45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
  8. Re:It's even worse than you describe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    I call bullshit.

    I have a little OBD-II code reader / clear unit in my glove compartment. Plug it in to an OBD-II vehicle (into the government-mandated owner-accessible standard connector), turn on ignition, watch scanner display any codes. Clear codes.

    There are proprietary extensions, but the availability of cheap computer diagnostics makes it easier to repair cars than it was 10-15 years ago. You can identify failing components more easily, or determine if the "Check Engine" light was just set by a fluke condition. Yes, the dealers have sophisticated tools; in many cases, a cheap tool has 90% of the functionality.

    Back in the '70s-'80s, a home mechanic needed a good timing light, tach/dwell meter, and a circuit-tester or that exotic device, a multimeter. If you want to work on your own vehicle, you're going to need some tools. Your brother has probably only been trained on dealer-level equipment & procedures. A competent home mechanic can do most of the work on their car. I know, because I do. I've troubleshooted overheating transmissions, ignition problems, failing oxygen sensors. You do have to make an effort to understand what you're changing; just as tuning a '60s 4-barrel carb was very different than tuning a 1-barrel.

  9. Re:Hot coffee by Stephen+Samuel · · Score: 2, Informative
    The difference in temperatures between what was safe and what McDonalds was using was only a few degrees. McDonals marketing determined that they would get X% more market share by doing so mostly because coffee would stay warm for longer starting at the higher initial temperature.

    The reason why most other companies did not use the higher temperature was that it was well known that those few degrees made the difference between painfully hot and wound-causing hot.

    McDonalds bean-counters calculated that they could probaby force people to settle their wilfull-wounding lawsuits for a low enough ammount that it would be exceeded by the increased moarket share. Most customers would not recognize the significance of the difference between the two temperatures until it was far too late. (I.E. they were in hospital).

    Quick upshot: McDonalds was wilfully wounding their customers solely to make more profit. The intent of the @2.7 punitive damage award was not to pay off the lady for the cost of her injury. It was to punnish McDonalds for putting profits ahead of safety.This is really No different than a car company putting new thin-walled tires on their car because they look neat and will sell more, but knowing that people will get injured in the resulting blowouts..

    In a court case (in Canada) our Supreme Court Justices made it clear that 'informed consent' is not really informed if it is missing information that might cause a reasonable person to change their mind. I think that McDonald's extra few degrees in their coffee and the safety implications of that would classify as such 'pertinent' missing information.

    --
    Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
  10. M-MWA by SonicSpike · · Score: 2, Informative

    Exactly. The Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act of 1974 actually prevents an auto mfg from stipulating which aftermarket parts must be used.

    For example... if you purchase a car from GM and they say "you must use Quaker State oil or else it will void your warranty" that would be in violation of the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act of 1974.

    Now if they could prove that the vehicle would not function properly without the use of Quaker State oil, then they are legally allowed to stipulate the type of oil (or whatever aftermarket product you are discussing). But again they must be able to prove that by not using this specific aftermarket product the vehicle would cease to properly function.

    In my opinion, the same exact logic should apply to this situation. After all it would be nice to have some consistancy in the laws around here!

    Vote libertarian (www.lp.org) and buy Amsoil (www.MTOil.com) ;-)

    --
    Libertas in infinitum