Could 'Fire Paste' Replace Shuttle Tiles?

pipingguy writes "Troy Hurtubise, of bear suit fame, claims to have invented a physics-defying substance called fire paste. "I could coat the belly of the NASA space shuttle with fire paste for $25,000 (US), instead of the $60 million it costs for them to put tiles on it," Hurtubise said. "It can stand up to the heat of re-entry to the earth's atmosphere, and then they can simply wash it off.""

Comments

No more accidents

[Kiriwas]

Normally Im one for progress at almost any cost, but after losing both lives and practically our space program with the loss of Columbia, I'd want to see this new past tested thoroughly OUTSIDE of a lab, meaning in actual field tests. Put up a few rockets and let'em re-enter with the paste. At 60 mil for the tiles, it's worth it to invest in this tech by testing properly. fp?

Re:No more accidents

[eMartin]

Somehow I don't think they would go and replace a major part of the shuttle's design and just expect it to work.

Re:No more accidents

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

I beleive him. Did you see the Bear Suit? That guy even looks like Buzz Lightyear! I bet a guy who goes around looking like Buzz Lightyear knows a heckuvalot more about "flying through space" and things like that. More than some guys who make tile.

Missing the point

[Oddly_Drac]

"I could coat the belly of the NASA space shuttle with fire paste for $25,000 (US), instead of the $60 million it costs for them to put tiles on it," Hurtubise said. "It can stand up to the heat of re-entry to the earth's atmosphere, and then they can simply wash it off.""

First of all, it's not simply a matter of applying a 'big blowtorch' to the underside of the shuttle. There's a lot of laminar flow that accompanies the heat and for something that can be 'washed' off, I'd be interested in both viscosity and lateral movement.

The other aspect is that plasma entered the interior of the port wing; it's not about the heat shielding failing so much as it was about having a bloody great hole in the leading edge. I'd be surprised if the paste could bridge that.

It's not as if

[Jammer@CMH]

ceramic tiles are made of expensive raw materials, either. The process of manufacturing and installation is expensive, however. How much would his tiles save?

(I know he calls it a paste. but if you look at the pictures the material he tests is has been cured into tiles.)

Re:It's not as if

[kevin lyda]

i haven't read the article but how does this fire paste compare to the current tiles in terms of weight?

Sounds like starlight

[mlush]

10+ years ago I recall hearing about a guy who created a very similar sounding stuff I think he called it 'Starlight'. I recall a demo where he had an starlight coated egg resisting a blowtorch I think he was a hairdresser and had made it out of common hairdressing equipment/chemicals

I recall he refused to patent it (cos big buisness would steal it) and apparently refused some very lucrative deals.

Hmm google is my friend I have some references they guy was called Maurice Ward it was called starlight here are some references:- ref1 ref2

Some perspective

[JMZero]

You've really got to watch Project Grizzly to get a feel for this guy. He's a hard working, confident kind of guy. He's also a bit of a nutbar, and not always practical.

For example, he tested his bear-proof suits with swinging logs, baseball bats, and firearms - but failed to ensure he could walk in the suit before going out for a live test with bears.

He very well could have a great thing here, but I think we need to rely on someone else to come up with reasonable feasibility tests.

right on!

[morcheeba]

You're on the right track. The $60 million doesn't get you just shuttle heat tiles, it also gets you a warehouse full of paper documenting every single test and the certificates-of-compliance of every chemical/assembly used. Even bolts have lot numbers and are totally tracable.

I suspect they do other testing, including:

Water resistance. Not only so it doesn't wash off on rainy days, but doesn't absorb water so that freezing causes it to crack.

Free oxygen erosion. Low earth orbit exposes the leading edge of spacecraft to free oxygen (O, not the stable O2), which tends to 'rust' things quickly.

Thermal coefficient of expansion matching to the aluminium body, so it doesn't flake off. If it isn't matched, then you need a good adhesive system.

Impact resistance. Does it chip or flake? You don't want a catastrophic failure mode (a super high-speed micrometeroite should make a hole instead of shatter the whole thing)

Weight. They stopped painting the booster tank and saved a lot of weight. Current shuttle tiles are foam-like in weight.

Repairability. Do you need to resurface the whole shuttle for the slightest chip, or is it fixable?

Lastly, NASA wants a proven scientific theory of operation... something better than "It dissipates heat at an exponential rate, it's beyond belief, and I have no idea why it does, all I know is that it does." All things dissipate heat at an exponential rate - heat flow is usually related to a difference in temperatures, so as an object reaches the temperature of its surroundings, the heat flow slows down to aproach zero. That's pretty basic to understanding heat flow, and not novel.

Re:right on!

[barakn]

Actually, I made enough simplifications that there could be something exponential lurking in a more detailed analysis. My model works for either a good conductor that remains isothermal as it cools, or for a perfectly bad conductor being heated from the outside (it radiates all the energy away from its surface without any of it working its way inside). Also implied was a near vacuum and heat sinks cold enough compared to the temperature of the object that they are essentially zero. As such, it works best for insulating tiles on the Shuttle during the period of reentry when there is still little atmosphere (space = 2.7 K, Earth ~ 300 K, tiles up to 2700 K). In case you care, there is a much more sophisticated analysis of shuttle skin here.

Re:Interesting...

[florescent_beige]

Epoxy cures by a chemical reaction when a diepoxy and diamine are mixed together. It doesn't need oxygen from the air.

I see a joint project...

[azav]

I'd like to see a bear suit coated with fire paste.

This would solve the problem of those nasty flaming bears that attack me all too often.

This would be great around the office.