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Silicon Knights On Gaming Consolidation, Standardization

Thanks to 1UP for their interview with Denis Dyack of GameCube developers Silicon Knights, as he discusses former product Eternal Darkness and forthcoming conversion Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes. Dyack advances the theory that "...you'll see more collaborations, you're going to see a lot of mergers with developers... When they standardized the movie camera in, say, 1950, all the movie companies that told good stories became dominant, the major players that we know now... The same thing is going to happen in our industry." He further suggests that standardization of gaming hardware platform is "inevitable", saying "commoditization of technology" is coming to games, and comments: "Nintendo as a group has always emphasized the content of games, because that's where we think the value is, and we think that's what will become dominant."

31 comments

  1. The content is the essential bit. by Max+Romantschuk · · Score: 1

    A game is only as good as it's content. Therefore standardization of the underlying technology makes sense.

    Then again, if everyone ends up using the very same technology we'll have a monopoly, which is a whole different thing altogether...

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    1. Re:The content is the essential bit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm intrigued by your ideas, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

    2. Re:The content is the essential bit. by Max+Romantschuk · · Score: 1

      I'm intrigued by your ideas, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

      Um... what newsletter? I have a weblog, which is right here. Unless that's what you meant I can't seem to fanthom what you were implying.

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    3. Re:The content is the essential bit. by Mike+Mentalist · · Score: 1

      He was being sarcastic.

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    4. Re:The content is the essential bit. by Max+Romantschuk · · Score: 1

      He was being sarcastic.

      You can never be that sure if someone is sarcastic, misinformed, or just plain stupid. I try to approach people with an open mind ;)

      --
      .: Max Romantschuk :: http://max.romantschuk.fi/
    5. Re:The content is the essential bit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, even more annoyingly, he was quoting from the Simpsons.

    6. Re:The content is the essential bit. by n0wak · · Score: 1

      Then again, if everyone ends up using the very same technology we'll have a monopoly, which is a whole different thing altogether.

      Not necessarily. It's what 3DO tried to do; and it's what DVD players and CD players do. In other words, you agree on a standard format and playback means -- and leave the actual hardware to anyone that wants to make it. And different companies can make different systems to cater to different markets (a more expensive version with Tivo-like features, or a cheaper bare bones just games system, etc) , but in the end, they all do the same thing: play the same games.

  2. Well, yes... by neglige · · Score: 1

    [...] content is going to become the dominant influence in the industry.

    So if I understand this correctly, he is saying that games with a good storyline will sell/be better than those with a not so good storyline. And that "in the future" other companies will "buy" the "technology" (read: license the graphical engine) and create their own games around that...

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  3. Bottom Line by shadowcabbit · · Score: 1

    Bottom line is basically, "Sega had the right idea and expect Nintendo to do the same."

    In all fairness, I love Nintendo's games, but don't care much for its hardware. Microsoft has very few games I care to play, but the hardware is (grudgingly) the best. As a guy who owns all three systems solely out of the desire to play good games, I'd love to see "commoditization" of gaming hardware but don't reasonably expect to see it for quite some time. Besides... commoditization of gaming consoles would basically create a situation similar to the GBA's dominance over the handheld market. The market is saturated and anyone who wants a piece had better go in with a bang or get forced out just as fast.

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    1. Re:Bottom Line by DenisDyack · · Score: 3, Informative
      Bottom line is basically, "Sega had the right idea and expect Nintendo to do the same."
      Actually, I am not saying anything like this at all and I do not know what Sega was thinking nor I am recommending we do anything like they did.

      In you comments you focus on MS's hardware which ironically is exactly the opposite of what I am trying to say. I am saying that as gaming technology evolves it will become less important.

      In a nutshell I am saying in the future the hardware will not matter.

      Denis.
      --
      In emptiness there is good but no evil. Wisdom exists, logic exists, the Way exists, and the mind is empty.
    2. Re:Bottom Line by Funk_dat69 · · Score: 1

      This is a very interesting theory and it seems to have merit, but as of now, the hardware makers have quite a bit of power and Sony is not about to give up its trump card of a playstation.

      Which leads me to think that it may be a long time before we see any standardization of the hardware, unless something threatens that power, such as a downturn in the gaming market in general.

      Interesting insight though!

      --
      FUNK!
    3. Re:Bottom Line by Acidic_Diarrhea · · Score: 1
      Why do you think Microsoft's hardware is the best? Simply because it has the most graphic capability is not a reason - since the XBox is younger than the PS2. When it comes to analyzing who has the best hardware I think it's more important to consider what company had the best designs and foresight - rather than which company made the slimmest of profit margins on the hardware. (Likewise, Microsoft isn't exactly responsible for the speed of the chip - in fact, it's not REALLY MS hardware, all they did was put the parts in a box.)

      If I assemble a computer from parts bought off the shelf, am I a hardware manufacturer?

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    4. Re:Bottom Line by 31+Flavas · · Score: 1

      Excuse me, but Nintendo's dominance in the portable handheld market isn't because of Microsoft type tactics.

      Nintendo's dominance is because everybody else seems to only want to make portable systems that:

      1) Are gigantic in size and thus not very portable.
      2) Eat 6 AA sized batteries in under 3 hours.
      3) Have too high of a purchase price.

      And as of recently

      4) Do functions unrelated to gaming that eat up even more battery power.

      If someone were to make a portable game system that:

      1) is small and portable
      2) has a good battery life (i.e. use 2 AA's that last at least 10 hours)
      3) does not cost more than $99

      Then they *would* give GameBoy a run for the money.

      But such obsolesence would never sell, right? It has to have a CD player and DVD player and a MP3 player and be a Cell phone and have hard drive and do your laundry and cook you breakfast.

      Heaven forbid it use cartridges!

    5. Re:Bottom Line by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 1

      When it comes to analyzing who has the best hardware I think it's more important to consider what company had the best designs and foresight - rather than which company made the slimmest of profit margins on the hardware.

      Then you'd probably be looking at Sega's DreamCast as being the best hardware, but we all know that having the 'best' hardware doesn't really mean much in terms of market share. The PS2 is probably the worst hardware of the current generation of consoles by most measurements, but has the largest chunk of the market. The only thing they did really well was include backwards compatability (though not complete), which guaranteed a large software library even if no one developed specifically for the PS2, and a larger number of early adopters specifically because it would run older software.

      --
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    6. Re:Bottom Line by 13Echo · · Score: 1

      Arguably, the XBox hardware isn't "better". It does have a bit more RAM, and it does have networking out of the box. On the other hand, the PPC chip is arguably a better and faster chip than the mobile Celeron in the XBox. The ATi grpahics chip is just as capable as the nVidia chip. Frankly, it doesn't really matter though. Each machine has its own benefits and exclusive games.

      I really just think that it's a bad idea to say "I like Nintendo's games but I don't like their hardware." Any good reason for that? It just doesn't make sense to me.

    7. Re:Bottom Line by Acidic_Diarrhea · · Score: 1
      You're probably right but, as I failed to alude to, measuring hardware is pretty much a waste of time. I could release a console that has a 5 gHz chip but if programming for the damn thing is so hard and clunky that no one can get anything better than Pong-like graphics on it, that great hardware isn't doing anyone much good. Judging based on the hardware seems rather silly to me.

      I mean, the original post to which I responded stated that he didn't care for Nintendo's hardware but liked the games. The games are the only thing you interact with! The only "hardware" you have any real interaction with are the controllers - and for some reason, I don't think this was what he was referencing. If you're planning on modding your console or developing for it, then you should consider hardware. Otherwise, buy the system with the games you want to play. I sat out this generation of consoles for a very long time because nothing really caught my attention until GTA3 came along and pulled me in.

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    8. Re:Bottom Line by shadowcabbit · · Score: 1

      Ah. I stand corrected. Thanks.

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    9. Re:Bottom Line by 31+Flavas · · Score: 1

      Well, by "not liking the hardware" I believe he means that he wants Nintendo to put in a CD/DVD player, harddrive, and network adapter and use full sized DVDs.

      Which Nintendo won't do because the costs of the licenses for the technology would would make the inital console price over $200. That is price point Nintendo just won't go above. (SNES, N64, and GC were all initally $199)

    10. Re:Bottom Line by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dennis, I was wondering if you were implying that the level of 'power' each console has is going to converge to the point that it will not really matter which system you get in a current generation, or which you get a game for? In many ways, that has occurred with the current generation of games, where each console has versions of most 'big' non-exclusive games, and each has their high and low points. A good example of this would be Soul Caliber 2, where I have heard people rave about each version.
      Do you expect the current 3 hardware player system to still be in place 2 or 3 generations down, or do you think that a single system will finally show domaniance of the market entirely and the remaining companies will fall back on game development? What kind of advantages/disadvantages do you see with such a situation?
      BTW-Eternal Darkness absolutely blew me away. It was just one of the most fun games I'd played in ages, and the "BSOD" trick actually got me off the couch. Bravo.

      ZBB

    11. Re:Bottom Line by blincoln · · Score: 1

      Do you think that at that time, several manufacturers will continue to sell competing platforms, like movie cameras are now (to use another of your examples), or that they will all build a standardized platform, like what 3DO was trying to set up?

      --
      "...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
  4. Only when consoles can do everything by bluGill · · Score: 1

    Standards are good, but not until you get to the point where new things are not being made. If all game developers had standardized on the Atari 2600 and never left, where would we be now? There isn't the power there for most of the games we play. Likewise every ohter platform to date that sold a lot (NES, PS1, and so on come to mind, but you likely have your own favorite memory)

    SO, is the PS/2/XBOX/Gamecube hardware really where we want to be forever? Or would a next generation be a good idea? If so where do we stop?

    I can't answer that. I agree content matters most. Thats why MULE(1982) and Star Raiders(1979) are still played by atari fans, and similear games keep the C64 scene alive. The latter could benifit a lot from imporved graphics, many of the alien space ships should get more details and the like, but what it really needs is a custom controller with buttons for all the options that it uses the keyboard to select. The former would look nicer, but I don't know that it really needs help.

    1. Re:Only when consoles can do everything by DenisDyack · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Standards are good, but not until you get to the point where new things are not being made.
      Intesterestingly, a standardation does not imply that the technology will not change/improve or progress. Take the movie camera as an example, it has improved greatly since the 1930s when the standardization occured.

      If so where do we stop?
      It will probably will probably never stop but I believe it will converge. This is the "perceptual threshold" I refer to.

      Denis.
      --
      In emptiness there is good but no evil. Wisdom exists, logic exists, the Way exists, and the mind is empty.
    2. Re:Only when consoles can do everything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mr. Dyack;

      I hope that you include "backwards-compatability" in your hardware predictions as well. As long as the media is the same (Playstations & CD's, for example) I see no reason why it would be a problem.

      Thanks;
      A fan & customer

      PS: The other posters are right; get back to work. ;)

  5. Get to work! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Shouldn't Denis Dyack be working on MGS:Twin Snakes instead of reading and replying to slashdot forums? Get to work, Denis!!

    Just kidding. It's actually good to see that he's clarifying his point of view.

    1. Re:Get to work! by PaleZer0 · · Score: 1

      I wish there was some way of proving it is really him. I do know he is definately into the whole forum scene. He made several appearances in teh PlanetGamecube forums and the staff confirmed it was him....I still wish we had better proof..:)

  6. Not sure of his assumptions -- can somone comment? by bpm140 · · Score: 1

    "When they standardized the movie camera in, say, 1950, all the movie companies that told good stories became dominant"

    I'm not a big fan of movies from the 40's and 50's, so I don't know whether the above statement is true. Regardless, this statement represents the lynchpin of his argument. I do know that special effects have become a commodity today, and we blame them as the primary reason that we don't have good stories in movies these days. Technology has become a crutch.

    Why would it be any different for games?

  7. Re:Not sure of his assumptions -- can somone comme by xRIOTxTX · · Score: 1

    It doesn't seem that much different now. I think a lot of the XBox's early success was due to this fact. Now that there are several games worth playing it has changed but, early on, they didn't need content. The technology sold itself.

  8. Why I won't buy another Silicon Knights game by edwdig · · Score: 1

    I bought Eternal Darkness when it came out. I figured if Nintendo liked what they saw so much that they invested heavily in the company, it's got to be a good game.

    As a story, Eternal Darkness is great. As a game, it's terrible. Almost every puzzle is about as difficult as a game of Rock/Paper/Scissor where you opponent draws first. It's all matching red, green, and blue. Sometimes it's match the same color, sometimes it's match the color that defeats that color. Combat isn't very hard; just attack the head of everything. Once you get the life recovery spell the challenge is gone completely.

    The 100% linear gameplay kills it though. The game is barely playable once through; unfortunately you need to play through 3 times to get the full ending.

    There are some people that play a game solely for the story. I'm sure they'd love a game like that. But for most people, the deciding factor on whether to buy a game or to play someone else's copy is how replayable the game is. A game isn't worth $50 if you're only going to play it once. (Side note: ignore RPGs, lots of people only intend to play them once. But outside Japan, people who like RPGs are greatly in the minority)

    If you make a linear game and intend on the story to sell it, then you better make the gameplay really damn good.

    I'm convinced Zelda: Wind Waker didn't sell as well as expected due to the strong story. The story required the order you major events to be fixed. Even when the gameplay didn't. Towards the end of the game, it really feels like the PHB came in at the end of development and said "No, non-linearity bad!" and made the order of stuff at the end get fixed for no other reason. I know about 4-5 people that would've bought GameCubes and Zelda until they saw how linear the game was.