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Watching You

BWJones writes "National Geographic is running a story this month on surveillance. I received my copy today and the article is reasonably extensive (for National Geographic) and well written, covering many issues that get attention here on Slashdot both good and bad. There is coverage of what's good with the technologies (a program called Poseidon that helps ensure folks don't drown in swimming pools) and what's bad (death of privacy). In between are some additional details on backscatter X-ray and a taste of some of the security for the 2002 Winter Olympics here in SLC. I got to see a little bit more than the average person of the security during the winter games as our building was the emergency backup headquarters if anything went wrong and was routinely crawling with FBI and other folks including the Secret Service making for some interesting nights at the lab."

27 of 173 comments (clear)

  1. Not to worry you or anything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    "I received my copy today"

    We know.

    1. Re:Not to worry you or anything, but... by ejungle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you want more, National Geographic want you to pay for it.

      ...and it is worth every penny.

      Every month those guys send me a magazine filled with the "pornography" of the natural and human world. (Bare-chested females from tribal and agrarian societies notwithstanding.) Interspliced, you find stories from every corner of the globe, the infinitesimal, the infinite and of the soul.

      They're coverage of "Gulf War PART DEUX!!" was excellent, as is they're continuing series on Afganistan. Also of note was the article on modern slavery.

      So yeah, I may be a National Geographic fanboy. However... Objectively speaking, they send me a magazine on ultra-high quality stock; printed on to which are some of the most stunning images and amazing stories. This is a service I am happy to pay for. Nevermind that I'm funding research (to a limited extent) by doing so. I'm not sure if you were implicating that one shouldn't have to pay for such a service. I posted this more to quell the extremists who take the notion of "free" a bit too far.

      --
      Remember: umount it before you fsck it.
  2. Uhh... by Sir+Haxalot · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Imagine devices that monitor the breathing rhythms of infants in cribs, watch toddlers at day care, and track children as they go to and from school; that can keep an eye on our home supply of orange juice and let us know when the milk is sour. Machines might watch our calorie intake and burn-off, monitor air quality in our homes, and look out for mice and bugs.
    All these things are currently available, and have been for at least 5 years, it's just they're very expensive at the moment.

    --
    I have over 70 freaks, do you?
    1. Re:Uhh... by DAldredge · · Score: 2, Funny

      Is it really that damn hard to open the fridge and check the milk/oj yourself?

    2. Re:Uhh... by NatlLabGeek · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah, but when the intern "upgrades" the mail server and your employer needs to find you RightFskingNow, they turn to the one evil, omnipresent, hugely expensive, all-knowing surveillance system they know they can depend on to locate you in less than 60 seconds:

      Your wife.

    3. Re:Uhh... by qtp · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Imagine devices that monitor the breathing rythems of workers who are on the clock, watch programmers at thier keyboards, and track office staff as they leave thier desks for "the copier"; that can keep an eye on those expensive paperclips and let us know if our staff is stealing them. Machines might watch our coffee intake to deduct any "extra" from our pay, monitor air quality at our home and our calorie intake to adjust our health insurance premiums.

      Sounds like a wonderful world, doesn't it?

      --
      Read, L
    4. Re:Uhh... by kfg · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I do it the easy way. I only buy what I'm going to drink before it can go bad and when it runs out go to the corner and buy more. They always have fresh.

      Since I actually know how to cook, rather than just follow recipes, I can decide how much I want to eat and cook that much, eliminating the whole issue of "leftovers." ( I'm not even sure I know what "leftover" means. I just think of it as "food.")

      The baby breathing thing is nice, but beyond that I never felt the need to monitor my kid 24/7. In fact, I find the idea kind of creepy.At best it smacks of neurosis on the part of the parent.

      But then this is a culture where people will mortgage their house to buy lottery tickets. We don't have a very good cultural grasp of risk.

      KFG

  3. About the police state by FrankoBoy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    One of the government's concern is about security, and this of course can be both good and bad because it has to consider not only the people's safety but it's own too, and that of course can have very bad consequences the moment the government considers you its "enemy".

    If you want to avoid the possibility that the government watch stuff it shouldn't, you better think about alternatives to the State because governments will always seek for their own protection just like every other social organization, except that governments have tremendous powers that other organizations can't have.

    1. Re:About the police state by Krandor3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem of the state overreaching its bounds was a problem the founding fathers realized which is why there are checks and balanced. For example, to watch certain things you need a warrant from the courts, etc. The problem is that in the interest of security we are eliminating too much of these checks and balances making it easier to get a warrant or eliminating the need for one. Checks and Balances in the government is a good thing. You have ambitious men in different branches that are going to look after their own self-interest which will mean not giving too much power to other branches because thet lowers their own power. We need to get back to more of this rather then less.

  4. Total secrecy, zero privacy by sammyo · · Score: 3, Funny

    Get used to it. You may keep selected keystrokes perfectly secret if you are willing to do all the work and keep your passphrase secret to the death (assuming no truth serum gets to you first) but everyone already knows what you did on TV and they all really care less and less. Set up a webcam in your bathroom, the hit will approach zero over time.

    1. Re:Total secrecy, zero privacy by Krandor3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Howeever, if all that data is there any anybody has reason to look at you they can find all kinds of information about you that you may not want them to find. So, you have to stay in a "don't rock the boat mantality" which is not good for society. The people who go beyond what is normal are often the revlutionaries of a society.

  5. Police Surveillance by the+darn · · Score: 4, Funny

    Every move you make and every vow you break
    Every smile you fake, every claim you stake
    They'll be watchin' you

    --
    Ceci n'est pas un post.
  6. Poseiden rocks by afidel · · Score: 4, Informative

    My mother has saved 2 lifes as a result of Poseiden. She is a life guard at one of the first US sites to have it installed and twice she has had it alert her to a person at the bottom of the pool. She says that neither time could she see the person from her chair. The system is not without problems, for instance the water arobics classes move so little from place to place that Poseiden will often flag people as being immobile, and the initial training was quite agrivating with almost constant false alarms, but overall it is definitly worth the cost and agrevation. Btw those two saves were in about 6 months of operations.

    --
    There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    1. Re:Poseiden rocks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      twice she has had it alert her to a person at the bottom of the pool.

      Great, another impediment to natural selection.

    2. Re:Poseiden rocks by BWJones · · Score: 3, Informative

      Hrmmm. Thanks for the info. Good Slashdot reporting dictates I should have placed a link to the company in the posting of the story item.
      Here it is.

      --
      Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
    3. Re:Poseiden rocks by Krandor3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If people understand that such monitoring is taking place and are fine with it these technologies can be very helpful especially in a public place like a pool. It is when it is used to look at people who do not know they are being watched and no not want to be that there is a problem. You example sounds like a great use of the technology.

  7. Re:Damnit by t0ny · · Score: 2, Funny

    please dont take away the warm security blanket of our conspiracy fears. its all we have left

    --

    Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.

  8. A related and interesting article by Motherfucking+Shit · · Score: 4, Interesting
    MSNBC is currently running an article titled "Smile, You're Being Watched." It details the gradual growth of CCTV in the UK, and hits on the point that while the cameras made Britons feel safe 10 years ago, they're now seen as invasive and people are even going so far as to pipe-bomb them. The article ends with a choice quote:
    Americans who are being asked to exchange privacy for the promise of security might want to look at Britain. In democratic nations, the balance between liberty and security is a delicate one. American officials would be wise to take note of the wave of indignation sweeping across Britain -- or they could soon face a backlash of their own.
    The source of the article is BusinessWeek and it's on MSNBC. The first time in my recollection that one - much less two - "mainstream" news sources have brought this issue to light without either politicizing it to death or painting a rosy picture of how increased surveillance will save us all from the evildoers.

    Earlier today, the article was at the bottom of MSNBC's "Readers' Choice" list. Now it's scrolled off. Alas I suppose that many Americans just don't care about Big Brother...
    --
    "BSD: Free as in speech. Linux: Free as in beer. Windows 10: Free as in herpes." --Man On Pink Corner in #52607549.
  9. Slashdot popups? by zapp · · Score: 2, Offtopic

    Has anyone else noticed lately that slashdot has had some popups? I don't know what they were, but my blocker did notify me that it blocked a efw from slashdot.org.

    --
    no comment
    1. Re:Slashdot popups? by _xeno_ · · Score: 3, Funny
      Can I complain about this one really annoying ad that's appearing on the pages I view? It's about this site that offers "News, every day, whether you need it or not." I took a screenshot one of the times it came up. Hold on, let me look for it.

      OK, it's for a site called, uh, "Slashdot".

      On a more serious note, I have been shown an ad for Slashdot on Slashdot twice in the past week. I actually find it really amusing but I have to wonder how much Slashdot pays Slashdot to advertise Slashdot on Slashdot. I just felt like sharing...

      Although I actually have a serious question on the topic of ads on Slashdot. I've been seeing Flash ads show on Slashdot occasionally in the past several months and was wondering if the previous policy of "no Flash ads" had been reversed or if those ads just snuck through. I personally didn't mind these ads, as they had no sound to them, but I'm curious if the Flash policy had been revised.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
  10. These things exist.... by dwbryson · · Score: 4, Interesting

    And are only going to get more accurate

    Imagine devices that monitor the breathing rhythms of infants in cribs, watch toddlers at day care, and track children as they go to and from school; that can keep an eye on our home supply of orange juice and let us know when the milk is sour. Machines might watch our calorie intake and burn-off, monitor air quality in our homes, and look out for mice and bugs.

    I work for a startup company that does this kind of surveillance development. We have software that will detect bad behavior(someone being clubbed over the head at an ATM for example), objects that are left lying around where they shouldn't be(suitcases in airports or trash bags on the side of the road), and everything is network aware... cameras tell other cameras to look at objects if they have a better view. As well as motion tracking, object detection(the cameras can say 'hey i see a red car')... some very very cool but scary stuff.

    on a side note it's all linux based and 100% digital from the photons to mpeg storage

    --
    - "Never let a computer tell me shit." - DelTron Zero
  11. I don't think by The+Tyro · · Score: 2, Insightful

    most people are concerned with such obviously beneficient uses of surveillance... if it saved my child's life I'd kiss the boots of the guys who invented it.

    I think we all realize surveillance is going on... there's a huge amount of info out there on virtually everyone; that info exists, as it must in a increasingly computerized world. I think the real issue for most people is simply WHO has access to that information, and WHY they want it.

    If the FBI wanted the info from my internet connection for the purposes of catching some terrorist, and they were able to give me a good reason why (and they asked me nicely)... Hell, I'd probably go get them some beers while they were sniffing the datastream. Some surveillance is useful... but I want targeted surveillance, not someone hoovering up terabytes of information for data-mining (and who knows what other potential nefarious purposes).

    If someone's looking into my information, I just want the courtesy of knowing WHO and WHY... and I'll make my own decisions at that point.

    --
    Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
  12. Evil is in the watchers, not the watching by G4from128k · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In a world of total surveillence, the watchers are themselves watched. Video tape or data records of police/official misconduct ensure that abuse is not tolerated. The more data channels and more oversight that everyone has on everyone, the less the opportunity for abuse. We need only ensure that the public has the same oversight tools as the government to ensure that the watchers don't overstep their bounds.

    As for personal privacy, that is an ephermal phenomenon in the scope of human affairs - a byproduct of the industrial revolution and urbanization. Prior to the 1800s nobody had much privacy. Now the world is shrinking again so that everyone, for better or worse, lives in the fishbowl of a little global village. The key will be whether we can develop the tolerance to let people live their lives as they see fit or whether we will be plagued by meddlesome busibodies from both the Left and Right that try to impose narrowminded definitions of _Proper Behavior_.

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
    1. Re:Evil is in the watchers, not the watching by Motherfucking+Shit · · Score: 2
      In a world of total surveillence, the watchers are themselves watched.
      By themselves, of course!
      Video tape or data records of police/official misconduct ensure that abuse is not tolerated.
      And when the police capture video of a fellow policeman beating the living shit out of someone, do you really think they're going to blow the whistle? Of course not. It takes a civilian to do that, but civilians don't have the luxury of being able to mount all-seeing eyes at every intersection. We mere mortals can only catch such abuse on film if we happen to be in the right place at the right time with our camcorders ready to shoot.
      The more data channels and more oversight that everyone has on everyone, the less the opportunity for abuse.
      I don't agree. I'd like to, in principle, but I simply can't because I know how this sort of thing works. In reality, the more oversight that everyone has on everyone, the more paranoid everyone becomes of everyone.

      In Washington, D.C., Capitol police set up a network of cameras which can zoom in on someone more than half a mile away. And they did this without the knowledge of even our own senators and representatives. Did you hear about it on the news? Neither did I.

      Until or unless the public is able to install surveillance cameras of the type and ubiquitousness that the government can afford, there will be no equality, there will be no oversight "of everyone, by everyone." There will be only surveillance "of the people, by the government." And government officials have a shady reputation of protecting themselves at the expense of others.

      </tinfoil>
      --
      "BSD: Free as in speech. Linux: Free as in beer. Windows 10: Free as in herpes." --Man On Pink Corner in #52607549.
  13. Re:Damnit by geekee · · Score: 4, Insightful

    " When is everyone going to figure out that everything in 1984 isn't coming true?"

    People haven't figured out the root cause of 1984 is tyranny, not technology. A free society or or even a mostly free society doesn't have 1984-type problems, because this type of government is interested in protecting the freedom of individuals, not some other agenda. 1984 is progressing far better in N. Korea than in the US despite better technology in the US.

    --
    Vote for Pedro
  14. Re:National Geographic aren't exactly the good guy by glesga_kiss · · Score: 2, Informative
    I was careful to tick the "don't give my details to anyone" boxes, and I used a variant on my name and mailing address that was unique to them.

    So far, the National Geographic Society has sold my personal details to 'Readers Digest', 'Doubleday Books' (a large Australian publisher/viral marketer - rough equivalent for Readers Digest here in Oz), and another third party whose name escapes me.

    Some countries have laws against this, e.g. the UK. The Data Protection Act is taken very seriously.

  15. Missing National Geographics by No+Such+Agency · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Some issues just don't arrive too. February, for example, still hasn't arrived here."

    My dad canceled his subscription almost a year ago and the Geographic continues to arrive monthly to this day. Now we know where those magazines come from :-)

    --
    Freedom: "I won't!"