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VIA-based Mobile Robot Design For Download
An anonymous reader writes "This article at DeviceForge introduces the "PC-bot" -- a new mobile robotics demonstration platform design that is being made available for free download from Roboteq. PC-bot was designed to be highly flexible and extensible so that it can serve as the basis for a wide range of customized mobile robot designs featuring web cameras, motion detection software, and more. Details on the mechanical, electronic, and software design are available at Roboteq's website. Currently the bot runs Windows, but Roboteq expects that one of the first enhancements from the user community will be Linux support." Unfortunately, there's no way to download the RoboteQ motor controller the design requires -- that will cost you about $500.
Intel and AMD may have the fastest processors, but I'm much more interrested in Via's small and cool (low temperature) processors... The possibilities just seem to grow with each generation :)
The new Via Eden-N is especially interesting.
.: Max Romantschuk
So, does this robot also transform into a jet fighter?
YLFIOne god, one market, one truth, one consumer.
how would it fair over here?
I see no flame throwers or hydraulic crushing devices.
Roboteq expects that one of the first enhancements from the user community will be Linux support.
so Roboteq wants linux users to purchase it for $495, and write their own code for it? Sounds awefully cocky to me. "Buy it, write the software for it, pass it on to us, and we'll distribute it to the masses, and cut $100 or more from our expenses per unit. We'll then market it to the Linux masses, and we may or may not pass that price break on to them, as well."
is it wishful thinking to hope that these companies might donate a few of those puppies to a major, or even a few minor sized open source shops and let them write the software for it and get some well earned name recognition?
To think that one's BSOD is now a MOBILE BSOD. Gives a new meaning to a system "crash!"
SRI Centipod is also based on VIA technology and already runs on Linux. It was demonstrated at Linuxworld 2003 in San Francisco. clicky
"Currently the bot runs Windows, but Roboteq expects that one of the first enhancements from the user community will be Linux support."
Considering that Linux support is added for just about everything, espescially when it's not wanted, why not skip this one just because they're expecting it?
This is interesting, but seems to be very little more than a companies advertisement for a product built for multi-applications and is a little off-beat for the usual non-commercial Slashdot article. Robot usage probably was not the original intent, but that is just my opinion. Although they have an impressive set of hardware specs, and could have used any X86 embedded processor, the controller seems to be someone's expensive golf cart controller set in a new application. Perhaps the most interesting thing is the 125 amps with no fan, but that is common on golf carts (and maybe Segway).
I've often thought that Erector Set construction kits would be ideal for custom robots. Unlike Legos they are strong. They are various strips and plates of metal with holes, most of them L-beams, that you bolt tegether as needed. They were sort of the Legos of the 1940's. My dad had a set from his younger years and I used them for science class projects that needed sturdy platforms.
But, the company bellied up. Maybe some Chinese firm will resurrect them.
Table-ized A.I.
If you don't want to spend the $500 and want a more affordable solution, try buying some surplus hardware. For example this page has stepper motors and controllers at reasonable prices.. htm
http://www.alltronics.com/stepper_motors
And instead of a VIA board you can get a cheap
80186 board for $69 from http://www.jkmicro.com/products/flashlite186.html
Okay you can't run Linux on that board but with 1 MB of memory and 33 MHz you can do lots with a robot.
VIA's Mini-ITX boards might have low power consumption while operating but they are total shit for power management. They leave practically everything they can powered up even during S3 suspend when only ram is supposed to be fully powered. Even when totally powered OFF they operate USB, SuperIO, and PS2 ports at FULL power, no matter what the OS asks for, totally failing their own specifications.
:) At least VIA has some truthful advertising on one point: the board is indeed a very small 170x170mm!
The boards are capable of pulling up to 2A off of ATX 5VSB in flagrant overconsumption. Even if the power supply is capable of providing that current on 5VSB, providing it continuously without the internal fans operating (which they don't in suspend) could be dangerous. The ATX specification provides for an absolute maximum current draw way below what the average Mini-ITX board draws from 5VSB when idle or off.
This problem was identified over a year ago after the ITX boards were initially released; however VIA has never issued a single fix for it, although it's apparently not the hardware preventing the fix from being implemented! Needless to say, their customer support in the Mini-ITX department is also shit. Is it so bad to want the board to work as advertised?
Luckily, I haven't even gotten into the processor or video driver issues, which many people see as an even larger problem than the power issues.. To each his own
~GoRK
Driving them is non-trivial, too. You have to spend as little time in the linear region as possible, to avoid overheating. Yet the load is inductive and is fighting that. You need overtemp detection and current limiting. You need protection against H-bridge short-through. At kilowatt power levels, all that stuff has to be there. Somebody had to make that all work under adverse conditions.
Incidentally, motor controllers are usually run at a constant chopping rate but with a variable pulse width.
Lately i've been rearing my ugly head at this page. The author has schematics for interfacing it to the LPT port, as well as software examples. I built my own interface using a rapid prototype board.
For those too scared to venture into building the interface themselves, I found this unit for less than $20 bucks from a company called ACS out in Florida. Unfortunately due to economic conditions, I cannot even afford that, but great looking product guys.
$500 is tooo much, i'd rather just interface steppers through the LPT and save an extra $380.
Actually, in the ARL (Algorithmic Robotics Lab) at RPI, I'm working on a research robot based on the Via Epia ME6000. In fact, we've just switched away from the Ampro Encore PP1 (a powerpc board) because of Ampro's complete lack of support and general flakiness of the board. So far I'm reasonably pleased with the Via board, though we'll see how it works out in terms of power consumption (though even with conservative power usage estimates we still expect to get 3+ hours, down from about 4.5-5 with the powerpc). It was certainly trivial to get Linux 2.6.0-test7 up and running on the board, though I haven't tackled setting up the onboard firewire (for our camera) yet. From what I've seen so far, it's hard to beat the sheer functionality you get with the Epias, for the low price (we paid about $120 compared with $1000 for the PP1 with baseboard).
More info on our project here.
Unless the bot is going to do some image recognition or running advanced AI this is so overkill it isn't funny. Plus it will have a runtime that is insanely short for any real research to be done.
I made a "overpowered" robot 5 yearts ago with a baby 386 motherboard and the 1st generation wireless networking. and even with the AI I was messing with and basic image recognition on linux with a B&W quickcam, and I still had lots of processing power left over.
I was getting almost a full day runtime from the bot (depending on how much the motors were on. if you ran full tilt or worse started and stopped repeatedly you could kill the lead acid on board in 3 hours.)
and I spent ALOT less on my robot... including motors making my own motor controller and finding the 1st gen 802.11 wireless isa cards.
and they leave out important things like sensors...
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
it is VIA-based. And VIA will not let you
know what you are buying when you buy their
products. You see, if you gave customers
your datasheets, they might be able to actually
use the products, which could lead to all sorts
of legal complications. It's much better to
just sell them a product they can't use.
-I like my women like I like my tea: green-