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Cringley on Microsoft and Linux

brentlaminack writes "Time for this week's dose of I, Cringely. This week the Cringe talks about Ballmer's Orlando comments from this week. He compares Ballmer's comments with Linus's. Nothing new here for the /. group, but a good read for the non-technical."

13 of 480 comments (clear)

  1. Well said by dtfinch · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I liked the part where he describes how most bad open source projects die in a darwinistic fashion while most bad microsoft projects limp on forever.

    1. Re:Well said by cK-Gunslinger · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yeah, I hate still having to deal with horrible projects like Bob.

      You misspelled 'Clippy.'

    2. Re:Well said by zulux · · Score: 5, Funny

      The compairison has been done! Really!

      PSN did pretty well compaired to MS.



      Microsoft Technical Support vs. The Psychic Friends Network

      Microsoft Technical Support vs. The Psychic Friends Network

      In the course of a recent Microsoft Access programming project, we had three difficult technical problems where we decided to call a support hotline for advice. This article compares the two support numbers we tried: Microsoft Technical Support and the Psychic Friends Network. As a resultof this research, we have come to the following conclusions: 1 ) that Microsoft Technical Support and the Psychic Friends Network are about equal in their ability to provide technical assistance for Microsoft products over the phone ; 2 ) that the Psychic Friends Net work has a distinct edge over Microsoft in the areas of courtesy, response time, and cost of support; but 3) that Microsoft has a generally better refund policy if they fail to solve your problem.

      In the paragraphs that follow, we will detail the support calls we made and the responses we received from each pport provider. We will follow this with a discussion of the features provided by each support provider so that readers can do their own rankings of the two services.

      Our research began when we called Microsoft regarding a bug that we had detected when executing queries which pulled data from a Sybase Server into Microsoft Access. If we used the same Access database to query two databases on the same server, we found that all of the queries aimed at the second database that we queried were sent to the first database that we had queried. This problem existed no matter which database we queried first. Dan called Microsoft's Technical Solutions Line, gave them $55, and was connected with an official Microsoft Access technical support person. As Dan began to explain the problem, the support person interrupted him, and told him that since it was clear that it was not just a problem with Access but with the two programs together, Microsoft would not try to help us. They did,however, have a consultant referral service with which he would be glad to connect us. Dan then asked if we could have our $55 refunded, since Microsoft was not going to try to answer to our question. The tech support person responded by forwarding Dan to the person in charge of giving refunds. The person officially in charge of giving refunds took Dan's credit card info again, after which Dan asked about the referral service. It was too late, however - the refund folks could not reconnect Dan with the tech support guy he'd been talking with, nor could he put Dan in touch with the referral service hotline. End of Call One.

      Our second call came when Dan was creating some line graphs in Microsoft Access. Microsoft Access actually uses a program called Microsoft Graph to create its graphs, and this program has a "feature" that makes the automatic axis scale always start the scale at zero. If all of your data are between 9,800 and 10,000 and you get a scale of 0 to 10,000, your data will appear as a flat line at the top of your graph-not a very interesting chart. Since Dan was writing Visual Basic code to create the graphs, he wanted to be able to use Visual Basic code to change the graph scaling, but he could not find anything in the help files that would tell him how to do this. After working with Microsoft Graph for a while, Dan concluded that it probably didn't have the capability that he needed, but he decided to call Microsoft just to make sure. Dan described his problem to the technical support person, whom we'll call Microsoft Bob. Microsoft Bob said he'd never gotten a call about Microsoft Graph before. He then left Dan on hold while he went to ask another support person how to use Microsoft Graph. Microsoft Bob came back with the suggestion that Dan use the online help. Dan, however, had already used the online help, and didn't feel that this was an appro

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    3. Re:Well said by Zakabog · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What he's saying is that microsoft can take a round block and hammer it into a square hole until it fits. Sure it won't fit perfectly, but they can throw money at working at the square block till it fit's pretty nicely. They don't have to give up, they should give up, but because they have so much money they have the luxury to keep moving on. With open source, if it doesn't work, don't try anymore it's probably a waste of time and resources which are very limited (work, and school get in the way of a lot of things.)

      Anyway his point was that Microsoft can make software that totally blows and spend time and money making it better since people are getting paid to do it (it's their job so they don't have to worry about work taking up their time) and microsoft has a lot of money to spend to fund crap projects. With open source you have to worry about your limited resources and you try to not spend them on crap.

  2. Re:from "Nothing new here" department by aheath · · Score: 5, Informative
    Cringley may have nothing new to say to the technical audience that reads Slashdot. However, Cringley is clearly addressing a non-technical audience. Cringley does a nice job of explaining why Microsoft does not understand the open source model. Cringley also does a nice of job of pointing out that software development may meet business goals without necessarily meeting quality goals.

    Cringley's article is a good non-technical explanation of why freely developed and freely distributed open source software can and often does work better than Microsoft's commercially developed and commercially distributed closed source software.

  3. Linux changes MS, too by astrashe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I like what Cringley said, but I don't think he goes far enough. The argument becomes more lopsided in linux's favor when you take into account the ways that linux has changed microsoft's products.

    When I started to use linux, people who worked with windows pretty much accepted that you'd have to reboot several times a day. This wasn't just because of the need to preserve backward compatitibility with DOS. Even NT 4 was pretty buggy before sp4 or so.

    I remember telling people that sun servers often stayed up for years without reboots -- no one believed it. Computers crashed, that's what computers do. Microsoft, and to a lesser extent apple, convinced most casual users that's the way computers worked.

    But obviously, this wasn't something that was caused by an immature level of technological development, because other companies, like sun, were shipping machines that didn't crash all the time.

    I believe that linux is responsible for a huge percentage of the core improvements that MS made to windows. They never felt it was a problem to ship OSs that crashed until they saw an alternative that didn't crash, on the edge of their radar screen. An alternative that people could install on their existing PCs, an alternative that people running ISPs could use to do server work.

    Linux's quality, for the most part, doesn't come out of competition. There are efforts to make linux better at doing certain specific things, efforts that are driven by benchmarks. Most of the time, these little competitions seem to be waged with FreeBSD. But it's a historical fact that people wanted to make linux more reliable way before windows had any stability at all.

    Microsoft *needs* linux to push it. If linux wasn't out there, does anyone think they'd be trying to tighten up security? Does anyone think that they would have delivered stable versions of windows without the pressure of competition.

    My point is that even if you don't use linux, you benefit from it in a big way. In fact, I would say that most of the real benefit that linux brings to the world comes in the form of competitive pressure on microsoft, and those benefits are seen by windows users, not by linux users. Who knows how much they'd be charging, what the net would look like, how often windows would crash, etc., if it weren't for linux.

    It's hard to get this across, but every discussion of open source vs. commercial development ignores the effect that open source exerts on commercial developers. The discussions are simplistic for that reason.

    If you were going to compare open source development vs. monopolistic commercial development in a realistic way, you'd have to talk about what a horrible job commercial developers did before open source developers started to hold their feet to the fire.

    1. Re:Linux changes MS, too by Chester+K · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This wasn't just because of the need to preserve backward compatitibility with DOS.

      Yes, it was. The Win9x line not only needed to ensure application compatibility with DOS, but also device driver compatibility with DOS -- and anyone who ever wrote DOS drivers could tell you, there was almost no such thing as standards.

      The end result was a GUI system that couldn't be stable because in order to be stable it had to enforce restrictions, and that was unacceptable because the software and the drivers needed to run without restrictions. Over the course of the Win9x line, Microsoft built APIs and pushed developers to use them, and then once there was sufficient legacy behind Win32 and WDM, they pulled the rug out from under us and we're all running on NT and enjoying the stability benefits that a protected architecture can provide.

      To say that Win9x was unstable because Microsoft was just lazy is a completely asinine thing to say and anyone who maintains as such shows how little they actually know about the situation. To say that Windows is stable today because of Linux is also misguided: Linux didn't really start appearing on Microsoft's radar until after 1999, which was when Win2k shipped, so Microsoft was already firmly in the stable OS bandwagon before Linux was a concern.

      .NET, on the other hand, is as much of a response to Linux (well, Open Source in general) as it is to Java -- Microsoft doesn't push the cross-platform capabilities of .NET in their marketing or technical evangelism, which is what you'd assume they'd really be pushing if they were intent on solely battling Java. No, Microsoft pushes the security, interoperability and standards aspects of .NET -- the very grounds that Linux and other Open Source software have been eating its lunch on lately.

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  4. "cognitive dissonance" by ummit · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Don Norman (who if you haven't read him, you should) has a bit in his book The Design of Everyday Things about a psychology experiment in which the subjects were asked to write an essay arguing against some point they'd ordinarily believe in. Some of the subjects were paid money to write the essay, some were asked to do it for next to nothing. Then, later, they were interviewed to find how strongly their former beliefs held, or how much they might have changed their minds.

    Conventional wisdom suggests that the people who had been paid more would be more apt to change their minds, but actually, the reverse was true. The explanation is that the people who were paid could resolve the conflict in their mind between the beliefs they held and the contradictory statements they were writing by saying "heck, I still don't believe this, I'm not writing it because I believe it or anything, I'm writing it because I'm being bribed to." But the people who didn't have that "out" had to resolve their own cognitive dissonance another way, and for some of them, at least, the way was to realize that maybe there was something to the counterargument, after all.

    Anyway, the reason I bring this up is that I was eerily reminded of it while reading Ballmer's arguments that Microsoft's commercial software is "obviously" better because it's written by professional programmers who are paid for it.

    But if you're getting paid to write code, and the code is (for whatever reason) crap, that you can't take pride in, you can at least feel good about all the lovely $$$ you're being paid. The open source programmer, on the other hand, who is doing it for love rather than money, doesn't have that out, so has a much higher incentive to write code that's not crap, because feeling good about it is the only reward.

  5. Re:Forgotten Element in Commercial and Open Source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think you've managed to miss the point entirely.

    The fact that OSS gets tested "in the real world" means that it undergoes the sort of testing that even Microsoft couldn't match (for most companies, they don't have the money to hire the hoards of testers with the almost infinite variations of setups required to really test something, for MS, they don't have the time to test this thoroughly). If you don't want to be part of this, then you use older, stable versions of the software.

    Otherwise, you've pretty much argued against one of the main strengths of OSS, which from inception has been release often and early (but don't call it version 1.0 until it's actually ready). There's entire articles written about how it's not hard to fix bugs -- the hard part is finding them.

    You're arguing for a step backwards in the development of software (a step into how its done in the commercial software world), and for changing one of the core strengths of how OSS has gotten to where it's at.

  6. I hope I never see you skiing in hell by rsilvergun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The day Microsoft gets hauled in to court to take responsibility is the day the flood gates are opened on software liability in general. Say goodbye to open source. How do you think Linus or R.M.S. would fair against a volume of lawsuits that wouldn't even make Microsoft flinch? How many developers would risk open source development if there was liability involved?

    I don't remember the details, but the software industry tried to get a law passed that would've voided EULAs without a piece of paper to back them up (anyone remember what I'm talking about?). Microsoft was all for the idea. I think it died (fortunately). Just remember, liability is a double edged sword.

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  7. Re:Forgotten Element in Commercial and Open Source by MourningBlade · · Score: 5, Informative

    PostgreSQL is quite heavily tested. Their regression test suite is...formidable.

    gcc is, if I recall, has a regression test suite which grows by leaps and bounds with every release. Not sure what sort of coverage we're looking at right now.

    perl 5.8 also has a large test suite, and 5.10 is looking to be insane in the testing department.

    All of the core CPAN modules have at least rudimentary testing, most of them have quite heavy testing.

    parrot loves it some testing as well.

    OSDL wrote a test suite for the Linux kernel which is pretty hard-core, I've been told. Testing results for development kernels are posted regularly to LKML, I believe.

    These are scattered projects (and they are not the only projects out there that test), but they reflect, in my opinion, a growing trend in open source: automated testing.

    The reason for this is twofold, IMO.

    1. Developers don't like fixing the same bug twice. If you write a test, you're unlikely to let that particular bug slip back in quietly (if you're good at writing tests, you can do a lot better than that in many cases). Also, automated testing + versioned source repository + automated tools = you know what patch broke what. That scratches a major itch.
    2. Some developers are just wired that way, or are paid to be that way. So, when a project comes or is brought to their attention, they try to do automated testing.

    As a possible argument against what I'm saying, I'll refer to your statement "no real testing of Open Source. No Test Plans, no Test Matrices of test cases"[1].

    To that argument I would say: don't get so hung up on names that you miss the point.

    [1] - I'm not saying you are making or would make this argument, just trying to think of possible responses and responses to those responses.

  8. Re:C-Class players by ch-chuck · · Score: 5, Funny

    where are the A-Class players for Microsoft?

    Marketing and Legal.

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  9. Who's Job is it? by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 5, Insightful


    So... all the folks who scream, cry, and blabber about being "beta testers" for Microsoft are ok being permenant beta testers for OSS as you say here?


    A couple of points...

    First, Open Source projects tend to be pretty up front about the state of their code. They'll warn people when the project is lacking in its early stages. And bug reports / tracking tends to be done on a fairly open basis. There is no marketing group pushing glossy brochures trying to paint a rosy picture of bulletproof reliability and infalability (not even touching on EULAs and business deals that forbid negative product reviews).

    Secondly, if I'm supposed to be a permament beta tester for someone... why do I pay hard cash for the privilige? Open Source involves a trade in time and effort. Commercial software should be a finished product.


    Another thing that Cringley doesn't say, although he mentions that many OSS contributors contribute in their spare time is that many OSS contributors are employed by non-OSS businesses.


    Not all coding goes in to a shrinkwrap. I know a good number of coders who are paid for customized code that largely stays within the confines of their employer's enterprise. In most cases, what they want to code on their own free time would never compete with what they're working on for their employer.

    Meanwhile, some have created Open Source projects out of a few untilities they threw togeather to handle some internal situation - with Corporate blessings. And there's talk where I work right now to put some manhours (either from existing employees or hiring in additional help) towards extending an Open Source application management has become particularly endeared to - but doesn't quite do everything they want.

    For these people, Open Source software is not a threat. I could see that if your entire focus on the industry is niche products or shrinkwrapped OS' and applications, the whole Open Source thing could be a bit troublesome. But then - if people doing something for no cost ruins your industry... you have to wonder about the viability of that industry.

    Sure - the views of people like RMS may make some view Free Software as a threat to their livlihoods. But honestly, is RMS' ultimate vision really going to come to pass? Will all commercial software be replaced by Free altenatives? Look around. For every product being esentially commoditized, I bet you can find a few more that haven't been touched. That's not even mentioning how many commercial products sprang either directly from, or due to the influence of, Open Source projects.

    One final thought. Competition is competition. Any given commercial software house has no guarentee to profit and success. It is just as likely that another commercial outfit will produce a killer product as it is that an Open Source project will eliminate the profit in it. And at that point, you're out of a job no matter what.

    If that worries you, look in to another career. But then - don't expect much more stability elsewhere either. The world is a rough place like that.