A Fiber-Optic Cable To Inner Space

tetraconz writes "The University of Washington has been working on a vast 3000km undersea network to research the ocean floor off the West Coast. From the executive summary: (PDF) "The goal of NEPTUNE is to establish a coherent system of high-speed, submarine communication-control links using fiber-optic cables to connect remote, interactive experimental sites with land-based research laboratories and classrooms." This is an important project to explore the last unknown region of the Earth: the ocean. Check out the project homepage."

Comments

Security, security

[jabbadabbadoo]

Fine. And for security we have Blowfish.

Nemo?

[davejenkins]

That seems like a lot of money just to find one little clown fish...

It's about time

[distro stu]

This project is absolutely fantastic. We're finally beginning to systematically explore the ocean and the ocean floor. The implications here for technology, environmental studies, education, and research in all sorts of different arenas is staggering. I can't wait to see some of the results once this is up and running. Jacques Cousteau wouldve loved this.

Re:It's about time

[LarsWestergren]

This project is absolutely fantastic. We're finally beginning to systematically explore the ocean and the ocean floor. The implications here for technology, environmental studies, education, and research in all sorts of different arenas is staggering.

Agreed. It used to be said we knew more about outer space than the oceans, but finally this is starting to change. If you want to learn more, a good place to start is the amazing BBC documentary
Blue Planet. It contains some of the most beautiful images I have ever seen.

Re:It's about time

[Davak]

Jacques Cousteau wouldve loved this.

Really? I always thought of Cousteau as someone who loved to be underwater making discoveries. I don't picture him as somebody sitting behind a computer screen doing work.

Thinking of him that way makes him less of a hero... and, err, too much like me.

Davak

Re:3000k's under the keys?

[LarsWestergren]

Yarr, we demand nautical measurment units! For instance, yonder cable be not 3000 kilometers, it be 13667 cable lengths. Give or take a catfish whisker.

bandwidth...

[idsCypher]

this means that some fish have more bandwidth that me.... damn

Leave the ocean alone?

[Anonymous Coward]

The ocean is one of the few places in the world we humans haven't terrorised yet. I'd hate to see it go down the tube (so to speak) for corporate interests.

If humans learnt to leave things alone, the world would be a better place.

Re:Leave the ocean alone?

[CFBMoo1]

Oooooh we've terrorized the ocean good.. Whaling industry, fishing industry, oil spills, sewage wastes from the main land running from our rivers and streams. Yes there's plenty of things we've done to hurt the ocean environment w/out even going there.

I wouldn't be suprised if there was radioactive waste at the bottom of the sea somewhere. And this is off the top of my head w/out even looking.

Ever hear of E-waste? The electronics other nations get because they're outdated and only valuable for the minerals in their parts? Imagine all the polution thats been reported from it getting in to the water supply over there. Now realize that their water flows to the ocean eventually. More terrorization of the worlds oceans. All this probebly isn't even the tip of the ice berg so to speak.

obligatory stingray reference

[maharg]

I believe the implementation will bear a superficial resemblance to this

Sensible?

[pubjames]

This looks like an awfully expensive project.

Although I love technology, I always prefer to take a sceptical view when considering it's application. I often ask my clients, "if you didn't have a computer/network/whatever, how would you do this?" I find computer technology often blurs people's clarity of thinking, and if you say "how would you do this without a computer?" they see more clearly exactly what the issues are.

It may be that this is a very sensible project. However, it may also be that the cost of setting up this network might be better deployed focusing on the actual experiments themselves. My own view is that when it comes to the biological sciences, there's nothing quite like physically being there, so I'd prefer to see money spent on making dive trips easier/safer/less expensive.

Having said all of that, often this type of big project actually has multiple objectives. I can see lots of military uses for a big undersea network.

Re:Sensible?

[Davak]

This is why we have the internet: Networked, remote controllable/accessable research.

This project provides multiple layers of input and output--all that can be controlled remotely. This is a science experiment/environment that can be explored and shared by multiple groups of people from anywhere in the world.

Even the radio telescopes are not this advanced; however, it's a similar idea. Groups of sensor inputs that can be fed to groups of people elsewhere.

Will it be expensive? Yes.
However, the amount of data that will be received with minimal impact to the environment will be staggering. Once the system is down and reaches a steady state, it can be repeatly used to gain information--without having to interrupt that system again and again.

Bravo to the Neptune project... this is the way research should be done.

Re:Sensible?

[pubjames]

This is why we have the internet: Networked, remote controllable/accessable research.

Except that isn't the reality, is it? The vast majority of computers attached to the internet actually have a person sitting at them. Those that don't (servers etc) still are within easy access of people - I doubt anyone who maintains a web server would like it stuck at the bottom of the ocean and unaccessible when the hard disc drive decides to start playing up.

This is exactly the point I am trying to make - think practical! Is data from the ocean in real time actually much more useful that non-realtime data? i.e. if I have a data-collection experiment attached to a buoy and leave it there for three months then collect it, is that data actually much less useful that data collected in real time? I doubt it. And yet look at the cost implications of collecting the real time data.

Will it be expensive? Yes.
However, the amount of data that will be received with minimal impact to the environment will be staggering.

Two random things that come to mind - the NASA "space pen" and the Russians pencil (yes I know about Snopes blah blah) and - "never underestimate the bandwidth of a pick-up truck travelling cross-country with a trunk full of magnetic tapes". Applies to a boat too.

Re:Sensible?

[Davak]

Is data from the ocean in real time actually much more useful that non-realtime data?

Yes. The article even mentions events such as underwater volcanoesn. Others could include the migration of plant/animal species and manipulation of data gathering devices such as cameras.

If you are watching fish mate, you would like your camera to follow the action... for example. (I guess this is different that watching checkmate, cause then you would be a total geek just watching chess. (g))

Anyway... we don't drop cameras out of planes into the jungle to "gather data." We GO into the jungle, experience it, and attempt to understand it. This is not as easily done on the ocean floor... so this is the next best thing.

Re:Sensible?

[pphrdza]

I'm reminded of a technique developed in the 60's/70's for gathering cells from lungs, without surgery, to determine if there was cancer (live cells were "scraped" using a tiny brush). The patients didn't have to go through the expense and inherent dangers of surgery to get an accurate diagnosis. But the pathology labs had never actually seen live lung cancer cells before, and initially didn't recognize them as cancerous.

How much will be found in "real time" that will change how we think about and approach the subjects of oceans, and remote research? Maybe it is expensive, but maybe it's less expensive and less dangerous than the alternatives (like the analogy above).

Re:Sensible?

[Obfuscant]

However, it may also be that the cost of setting up this network might be better deployed focusing on the actual experiments themselves.

They have been focusing on the experiments for years. The new part of this project is NOT the measurements, it is the connectivity and being able to get large volumes of data back.

It costs a great deal of money to send out ships to tow side-scan sonars and temperature/salinity sensors. It costs a great deal of money to put out current sensors. This means that sampling is done very sparsely, if ever. And the instruments have to be designed to fit their data in limited space.

A wide-bandwidth real-time data stream allows not only more data to be collected, but for data sampling methods to be changed to observe transient phenomena. While we have some understanding of the long-term activities under the water, most of the fun (and change) comes from the transient stuff.

And I'll point out that while the web page comes from U-dub, there are an awful lot of academic and corporate institutions involved in Neptune, so saying that "University of Washington" is doing this is a little insulting.

Re:Sensible?

[Obfuscant]

So, the original poster is saying the problems with diving should be addressed.

Little of deep-sea oceanography is done with divers. They are too expensive and too fragile.

Most of the measurements of the deep-sea are done with cable controlled submersible vehicles, instruments towed behind boats on long cables, or submerged buoys.

Submerged buoys are dropped from boats which leave them in place for six months to a year. They come back and send an acoustic signal that is supposed to trigger a release and the data is supposed to float back to the surface. IF the release hasn't failed, if the boat is in the right place, if they can find it when it pops up, etc. NEPTUNE removes this problem because the data doesn't have to pop back to the surface, it is already on shore.

And yes, real-time is important. If you want to study something you've seen in the current-style buoy data, you have to design a new instrument, have money left in your ship-ops budget to hire time on a boat, drop that instrument, and then hope it comes back alive -- in six to twelve months. NEPTUNE is a major improvement in this process.

Big Problem - Security

[Davak]

You think security is troublesome on your own systems... imagine being in control of security on this project.

You are doing 6 months of observation waiting for an undersea volcano to erupt... and the day it does, some undergrad hacker gets into the system and decides to write out I LOVE BETTY with a mini robot sub on the ocean floor.

I am kidding,,, but this is a system that most likely multiple groups of scientists will be able to access. Keeping that type of open system secure will be difficult... especially if they are using the internet to accept data and send commands.

Davak

Strange priorities

[infestedsenses]

I find it interesting that we first choose to go to the moon, and then discover the oceans of or own planet.
I'm sure there is still much in store for us to learn from our own planet, and I feel we've neglected that for too long.

Re:Kazaa

[tambo]

3000km of fiber is gonna give those deep-sea researchers some awful CounterStrike lag. - David Stein