Harrison On Nintendo's Shortcomings, Hopes

Thanks to EGM for their interview with Nintendo vice-president George Harrison, discussing the current state of the GameCube, as well as plans for the future. Harrison is surprisingly honest, commenting: "I think we've had individual successes with things like Zelda: The Wind Waker and Smash Bros. and others. If there's a shortcoming for us on GameCube, it's not delivering enough consistent breadth and variety of software. That really is the key." He also explains the exact reasoning behind the GameCube's recent price drop: "We see people buying it for $99 as a second system; potentially someone who has owned a PlayStation 2 for three years already and know that they have another two or so years to wait [for the next console hardware generation]."

Comments

So what you're saying...

[Dancin_Santa]

George Harrison: If there's a shortcoming for us on GameCube, it's not delivering enough consistent breadth and variety of software. That really is the key.

It's going to take time. A whole lot of precious time. It's going to take patience and time. To do it, to do it, to do it, to do it, to do it, to do it right.

He's got a point

[NanoGator]

" I think that, clearly, the improvement in graphics and presentation by the systems is reaching diminishing returns. We've talked about this before, but the reason for a consumer to buy the next generation of hardware, for many of the competitors, is not going to be because the graphics are prettier. It'll ultimately come back to what is a unique gaming experience."

I think he's got that point nailed. Every generation, the artists have fewer and fewer limitations for creating realtime 3D graphics. We're at a point, even today, where the artist's style and vision are relative easy to achieve. How can the next generation of graphics be to the GameCube what it was to the N64? Beyond a few more polys and real-time shadow casting, not a whole heck of a lot. Whatever happens for the next systems, there's got to be a new dimension of gaming.

Nintendo's aware of this. And since it's not so obvious what the next breath-taking move is (i.e. with the N64, it was faster frame rates and higher resolution) I'm damn curious what Nintendo comes up with.

Re:He's got a point

[SmallFurryCreature]

BULLSHIT.

There are still an awfull lot of limitations. If you don't believe me fire up a FPS editor and try to create a truly nice level.

Sure for now the graphics look great. But then they also looked great a couple of years ago. Then new hardware came along and you went wow and promply forgot about how you thought the old games looked great.

Sure sadly an awfull lot of games seem to just use the extra power of the hardware for bigger textures and more rounded boobs. Doesn't mean you can't use it for different purposes. Like say populating a city with cars and pedesastrians for you to drive through? Notice how older games of this style didn't have civi cars? Why do think this was?

Yes I agree, it is going to be more about what you are going to do with the extra power of future hardware. No need to increase framerates above the refresh of the display or resolutions bigger then the number of pixels. But you can also use the extra power to create a more believable world. A world in wich when you chance the equipment on your character this is reflected in the graphics. A world in wich charactes properly walk on the floor even if it is a staircase not just hover above it. A world in wich cars propely move on their suspension so you can see if the car in front of you is about to loose control or is increasing his turn to close of the inside for you. Where on closing in on an enemy flight you can spot wether they already dropped their bombs so you can save your bullets for the other flight that has yet to reach their target. A fps where the enemy is carrying an m60 and you can see how many bullets there are left on his belt.

Sure I may be dreaming but I think their is still an awfull long way to go. I have seen the shift from where you needed to consult the manual to see what the hell that red thing on the screen was supposed to be to where it is obvious that you have come across a med pack. Now I want to play a game where I can no longer see that the designer had to restrict himself to an X number of polygons.

Oh and yes I do own a gba. So no I am not totally blinded by pretty graphics. But there is a reason people are excited about the PSP. Can you guess what it is?

Re:He's got a point

[DarkZero]

Sure for now the graphics look great. But then they also looked great a couple of years ago. Then new hardware came along and you went wow and promply forgot about how you thought the old games looked great.

Sure sadly an awfull lot of games seem to just use the extra power of the hardware for bigger textures and more rounded boobs. Doesn't mean you can't use it for different purposes. Like say populating a city with cars and pedesastrians for you to drive through? Notice how older games of this style didn't have civi cars? Why do think this was?

I don't think he meant that we've reached the peak of video game graphics, but rather that the next generation of consoles and possibly even the one after that aren't going to have that "HOLY SHIT THIS IS AWESOME!" factor that, say, the Super Nintendo did with you loaded up Super Mario World for the first time or the PlayStation had when you loaded up FFVII for the first time. You may see more objects, less fog, less loading time, etc. but you're not going to see something that really shocks you graphically like the games of the past have.

And to some degree, it's already true. If you played Final Fantasy X or Kingdom Hearts and then went to try out a beautiful GameCube or Xbox game for the first time, you'd probably have a "Wow, that's neat" sort of reaction, but you wouldn't have a spontaneous bowel movement or anything. Video game graphics will continue to steadily improve, but they won't feature the same sort of enormous graphical leap that you had between the NES and the SNES or the SNES and the PSX. It's the same situation that's occurring with storage. Right now, there's a little bit of a wow factor that such a large, beautiful game comes on one little GameCube disc instead of six PlayStation discs. However, as compression gets better and the available storage for games gets larger and larger (if, indeed, it needs to surpass the DVD any time soon), it's not going to be as surprising as that switch from six medium-sized discs to one miniature disc.

Re:He's got a point

[Anonymous Coward]

You know, just as a reeeeeal off topic note, the other day I was playing Wind Waker and was guiding Link up a slope. I had the quick thought to stand Link parallel to the slope and see if one of his feet would go through the ground or stay in the air. I was rather impressed to see that his knees were bent properly, the way you would expect them to be, and there was no "through the ground" action.

Like I said, waaaay off topic, and not even really what you're talking about, but I thought it was slightly neat when I saw it.

Re:He's got a point

[PainKilleR-CE]

I don't think he meant that we've reached the peak of video game graphics, but rather that the next generation of consoles and possibly even the one after that aren't going to have that "HOLY SHIT THIS IS AWESOME!" factor that, say, the Super Nintendo did with you loaded up Super Mario World for the first time or the PlayStation had when you loaded up FFVII for the first time. You may see more objects, less fog, less loading time, etc. but you're not going to see something that really shocks you graphically like the games of the past have.

I think people keep thinking this and keep saying this, and it keeps not happening. When I loaded up RE: Code Veronica on the DreamCast and it transitioned from the intro to the game I sat there and waited for the intro to continue because the graphics quality didn't look like what I expected from an actual playable game (and wasn't discernable from the intro). When I loaded up Soul Calibur the first time on my monitor it was eye candy for days (and was so good that it's hard to tell that Soul Calibur 2 looks better). Amplitude amazes me with it's ability to put flashy graphics (though admittedly low-poly, it still looks good and you don't really notice that polygons aren't a limiting factor) mixed with real-time video (in the backgrounds of most arenas) and have very precise gameplay that requires synchronizing the input to the music and what's seen on-screen.

Ikaruga made my jaw drop in more ways than can be explained.

It's not just about how many polys you can push, it's about what you do with the graphics capabilities. In many ways, US game developers have been pushing too much towards realism in the graphics, when it's some of the most unrealistic things that make the graphics so amazing in some games.

Plus, as long as game developers feel the need to put pre-rendered graphics into their games for any reason, we still need to increase the power of the graphics systems. The difference in some games gets less obvious over time, but in others is still glaringly obvious, primarily because character detail is limited to make a more believable environment, or vice versa. I'd have to say this is where Nintendo has the real advantage, because of all developers they have the tendency towards making the most cohesive environments, where the style of the character matches the environment best, where there isn't a clash between the two constantly pulling your eyes towards the technology rather than the game.

And to some degree, it's already true. If you played Final Fantasy X or Kingdom Hearts and then went to try out a beautiful GameCube or Xbox game for the first time, you'd probably have a "Wow, that's neat" sort of reaction, but you wouldn't have a spontaneous bowel movement or anything.

Halo gave me some drooling moments, but I don't think I saw FFX before I played Halo. KOTOR has had some truly beautiful scenes, as well, despite many people saying it's graphics aren't that great. Not to mention that even PC games are pushing beyond the capabilities of the consoles, although they still have options to drop them down to lower detail for systems that can't handle them (though in terms of resolution support PCs have almost always been beyond consoles).

Video game graphics will continue to steadily improve, but they won't feature the same sort of enormous graphical leap that you had between the NES and the SNES or the SNES and the PSX.

I think those particular leaps actually tended to be mitigated by later titles in each cartridge generation using cartridge-based hardware to increase the capabilities of the consoles. SMB3 was certainly an eye-candy-fest that made the NES nearly comparable to the 16-bit generation, especially since Nintendo was so late to the 16-bit table. The real difference seems to be that in the past the hardware was extended by adding new graphics and sound chips to the cartridges, whereas today people have to squeeze more out of the same hardware when they make games later in the g

Re:He's got a point

[kisrael]

No, that's exactly on-topic, I think, or at least this subthread.

It's amazing how scripted 3D human movement is in 90% of games. Take Soul Caliber 2; during some of Voldo's victory poses (and you think they could take the time to do victory poses right, since they can be easily 100% scripted without interference from either player) his weapon passes right through the floor! That's just wrong. Essentially, what we need (well, not need, but it's a worthwhile goal) is "rag doll physics" in everything. Polygon/limb-specific damage shouldn't even be an issue. If a character walks, that should reflect his (or her) legs and feet moving against the floor, using the arms for balance...

it's going to be rough for a while, because suddenly walking and jumping go from easily recorded and replayed events to challenging AI problems (and if we're not careful, everything's gonna walk around like that Honda ASIMO 'bot) But I think just like N64 era games had "stairs" that were just hills with vaguely stair like textures, this gen's scripted movement will seem like an anachronism.

GTA has started to address this, at least in terms of car physics. Despite the fact that it has special camera angles (and behaviors?) for certain jumps, all the vehicle stuff is based on an essential core physics model. GTA is also interesting for overlaying a scripted adventure on a world that doesn't feel like it's exclusively been created for the player...although RAM limitations means vehicles and pedestrians aren't nearly as persistent as they should be, and it's not like a UO virtual economy or anything, it has the flavor of a 'real', persistent, and self-consistent place. With absolutely NO traffic laws :-)

Good plan

[The_dev0]

We see people buying it for $99 as a second system

I reckon this is an excellent move, as all the nintendo fanatics bought one in the first few weeks, but this allows them to get a chance in the homes of those with a PS2 and/or XBox, and let the games do the talking.

I think Nintendo is taking the right steps to disprove the misguided notion that the GCN is a kiddie's system, and for 99 bucks, a lot more people would take an interest. I could definitely justify buying a PS/2 for 100 bucks with a couple of titles, and the same goes for the XBox. I reckon Nintendo are counting on people buying a 100 buck GCN, one or two of their really huge titles, and giving any financial loss on the discount back to the big N in game sales.

Re:Good plan

[FiberOpticMayhem]

Xbox doesn't really has a vast, enormous variety of games. I must admit, there's Halo, but for me that's the only game I like playing on Xbox. GC has so many updated classics(Zelda, Metroid, Smash Bros., Resident Evil, F-Zero), new games, and most importantly, the fun ones. If you haven't seen Viewtiful Joe yet I highly suggest it (Cell shading rules and is ultra sexy). Not to mention that the Xbox will break my back if I try to move it, and the controllers are quite oversized for the average gamer (luckily I have large hands and it works out fine).

Oh please...

[xQuarkDS9x]

To begin with, Sega is and was never nowhere near as big as Nintendo to begin with. The only reason Sega suceeded in the 80's and 90's was because they had several 8,16,32, 64 and 128 BIT gaming systems ending with the Dreamcast, and they had their own brand names like Sonic for example.

Seeing as the DC was the first 128 bit console it had actually beat out PS2/Xbox/Gamecube. Alas, seeing as Sega didn't do nearly enough promo and ad work on the DC, it died off and they decided to go into the software business for all 3 consoles.

Nintendo won't go the way of Sega, not since they've been around since the 1890's making everything from card games at first, then later arcade boxes in the late 70's and 80's, and then the NES from 1985 onward to today with the Cube.

Re:yep yep yep

[metallicagoaltender]

For me, there are few if any games that I'm really itching for like I did back in the day when I wanted Super Mario World and SF2. The closest thing to a must have today is Half-Life 2. Am I just getting old and jaded? Or are games just not as fun anymore?

A little from Column A, a little from Column B...I've found that the attraction I had to video games when I was 7 - 12 years old isn't what it was, but games like Vice City, Half-Life 2, Max Payne 2, etc. still deserve anticipation and excitement. It's just in an entirely differetn context. When I was 9 years old, all I had to worry about was a page of math problems, a 3 paragraph essay, and then I could get ramped up about gaming. Now, it's worrying about meeting project deadlines at work, bills...life in general. The excitement is still there, it just doesn't take up as much energy as it used to.

Re:The Autumn of Nintendo

[Acidic_Diarrhea]

Problem with that argument is that you can actually make games for 10 year olds forever. Much to your surprise, humans are turning 10 every day. Are you familiar with the toy company Fisher Price? They target a rather young demographic and have been doing so for quite some time. You may have even had some Fisher Price toys as a child. Interestingly enough, I bet you don't buy any of their products anymore since they didn't grow up with you. But guess what - they're still making a profit! Just like Nintendo.

So not only is your argument flawed - a company can survive by just selling to a young demographic - but it's also wrong in assuming that Nintendo only makes games for 10 year olds. Super Smash Brothers, Mario Golf, Metroid Prime, and Zelda all appeal to gamers over the age of 10. I own GTA III but don't need to be able to shoot hookers in order to enjoy a video game - sometimes just rescuing the princess is enough. I always find that the mature gamers who say that Nintendo has kiddie games and they will only play GTA III-like games are the least mature gamers.

Well you're half right

[Daetrin]

So I don't think that we're missing anything by not being involved [in online gaming]. I will say, though, that it certainly has played out the way we thought it would in this generation. The hype may have been more important than the actual substance.

Good to see that acceptance of the truth is begining to leak through the denial. The online capabilities have been a big selling factor for the XBox, even though most people don't use it. PS2 is holding steady, they've got online play although not out of the box. GameCube however has been getting slammed by the press and message board junkies for their lack of online support.

It doesn't matter that most people won't use the online capabilities much, they still buy into the hype. If someone thought that two consoles were equally valuable for the price, and then you added online capabilities to one and not the other, that would probably influence their decision.

Plus of course there's always the gap between impulse and follow-through. Even if someone is never going to do much online play, they might like to think that they will. I'm a friendless geek (well, not entirely friendless, but all my friends who play games live in other states, so close enough =) but i'll still let multiplayer capabilities of games influence my purchasing decisions. I'll be more likely to purchase a game with cool multi-player aspects in the vain hope that i'll find someone to play it with sometime.

Re:The Autumn of Nintendo

[gamgee5273]

Did you notice that you're the only one on the board who reads negativity into this?

Nintendo was never the only game in town and has always had to fight. First they had to knock off Atari (easily done because of the gaming bust in the early 80s), then they had to fend off Sega (which really meant they tied with them between the SNES and the Genesis). The break with Sony (imagine if that project had come through - GTA on the N64 and the GC?!?!) and the stupid choices made for the N64 is where they stumbled, and that stigma has affected the GC. The GC is definitely a more balanced system (do you see a Pikachu edition of the GC?), and there are more games on it for 30-year-olds than 10-year-olds. I think many people are starting to notice that.

When you consider that the Famicom has been around for 20 years now, and that the GBA is as readily available as water, you have to admit that Nintendo isn't going anywhere. They're the only ones to have lasted this long. Atari's gone, Sega's out of the game, 3DO is dead and buried and Bandai is almost out of the running. So people may buy a GC as a second and not primary console - that's okay! Once they've firmly established themselves in second place (and, remember, we're talking in the US, not worldwide), then they can start working on how to take the top spot again. this is precisely where Sega fell apart. They were so focused on taking the #1 spot that they didn't focus on the places and things that mattered (the DC is a great system, it's just missing a lot of great exclusive games...sort of like the Xbox). Nintendo is looking at bettering itself step by step. Not a bad idea, really.

There may come a point where there is not a console being developed by Nintendo, and we all have to admit that, but when that happens, it just means more creativity going into handheld gaming. :)