Professional Organizations for Web Developers?

t1nman33 asks: "I have a degree in a field far removed from my current job as a web developer. While I know that I could have joined the SPJ if I had gone into broadcasting, I never learned of any equivalent associations for the web development field. I'd love to be active in a national or even local group to network, talk shop, keep up with recent developments in technology, go to awards presentations, and just hang out IRL with fellow geeks. Can anyone point me in the right direction?"

Comments

perhaps...

[m00by]

a local chapter of ACM could help you out. www.acm.org :) an organization for geeks. =D

Re:perhaps...

[Anonymous Coward]

an organization for geeks

Not so. Slash Dot is an organization for geeks. The ACM is for real computer people - not blowhards.

Congratulations! You're already there.

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's face it; Slashdot is as good as it gets for something of the sort you're asking for.

Which, btw, is probably why you've never heard of it before.

Join the Trash Collectors Union!

[Anonymous Coward]

Thats where all the web monkeys go to hang out!
Free beer and nibbles provided!

No need to thank me for this advice...

Professional web developers?

[HotNeedleOfInquiry]

Perhaps you're mistaking them for paid web developers.

A different matter entirely.

Re:Professional web developers?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't see why this has been moderated as flamebait. Take a look at the average "professional" web agency website. Chock full of Flash and invalid code. No notion of accessibility. No separation of content and presentation.

Now take a look at the average techie bloggers website. Good use of markup and CSS. Pretty good usability. Use of Flash and other crap is very rare.

There was an article floating around a few months back that compared the two groups, and found that people involved in web development as a hobby were far more likely to produce a high-quality website than some web agency that charges hundreds of thousands to churn out crap. Unfortunately, I lost the URL and have been unable to find it since. Anybody know what I'm talking about?

English major / web developer

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a degree in a field far removed from my current job as a web developer.

Ha, what web lackey didn't major in English or Environmental Science?

None!

Re:English major / web developer

[Anonymous Coward]

Not so! Many majored in MIS, which is even less useful.

Re:English major / web developer

[togofspookware]

But I'm majoring in Software Engineering :/

I know, I know. Wussy me. SE is teh suX0rZ :(

Meetup.com?

[a.koepke]

Have you checked Meetup.com. It may not be a professional organisation but at least you get to meet people.

Also web developers is quite a broad term. Many designers also call themselves web developers even though many of them have no clue about programming. They still develop websites so are still able to use the web developer title.

Have you considered...

[isaac]

How about the unemployment line? There's lots of "web developers" there. You can do all the networking and shop talk you want. And as for award presentation... everybody wins! The prize is a check, though the presenters don't stand on ceremony, and a lengthy acceptance speech will probably earn you a shove in the back from the next "award winning web developer."

-Isaac

Re:Have you considered...

[Fascist]

But don't push in. I was here first.

Huh?

[Hard_Code]

I thought owning a geocities web page and having an HTML Writers Guild badge made you an official web developer. If that has changed, let me know, because I want in on this lucrative career of the future.

Re:Huh?

[qengho]

I thought owning a geocities web page and having an HTML Writers Guild badge made you an official web developer.

Dang, I wish I had mod points right now. "Web Development" is at the same stage that "Desktop Publishing" was in the 80s: any wally with a computer and an "HTML Editor Program" can hang out a shingle. I knew I should have become a male prostitute instead of a Web consultant...

Re:Huh?

[TheTomcat]

*sigh*

I hate this mentality.. I know you were joking, but far too many people believe this.

Web development is a distinct programming discipline.

You don't expect a developer who's exceptionally good at 3D/game programming to be able to write optimized code for a database engine, do you?

Same way that you can't expect an application programmer to be able to simply switch over to web programming.

Web developers don't know about memory allocation, loop optimization and buffer overruns; Application developers don't know about HTTP headers, session hijacking and SQL Injection.

(generally speaking, of course; and I'm talking GOOD developers in all cases.. there are plenty of idiot web devs floating around, writing nasty code)

S

Re:Huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, a GOOD developer should be able to do any of those things given some time to learn them. A bad developer will find one thing he or she is good at and never leave it. A really bad one will find one that he or she is bad at and never leave it.

In short, a developer is a developer is a developer.

Re:Huh?

[TheTomcat]

Agreed.
My frustration comes from a team of application developers being thrown into a web project that was "due yesterday" without casting a care on the consequences (security and otherwise) of not being well versed in the web medium.

That's all. A good developer should NOT be constrained to one language.

My beef is with management, really.

S

Re:Huh?

[Textbook Error]

You don't expect a developer who's exceptionally good at 3D/game programming to be able to write optimized code for a database engine, do you?

Of course I would. Being able to write move between fields within your discipline is the hallmark of anyone who's "exceptionally good" at anything (barring idiot savants). If a developer came to me and said "ooh, I can't work on project X - I only work on project Ys", then it really doesn't matter how good they are at working on project Ys. If they're a one-trick-pony, they don't have the experience or the skills that make them truly valuable.

I don't expect them to be born with the knowledge of how to write an optimized database query, but at the same time neither were the developers who are exceptionally good at doing that today - they're just smart people, who were willing to apply themselves.

Re:Huh?

[TheTomcat]

It seems I was unclear, and I apologize.

My point was that someone who is used to working in a specific sub-field (think OpenGL), isn't inherently able to jump fields without a learning curve... That's all.

I agree that anyone who's "exceptionally good" in a sub-field has the ability to learn another sub-field.. but when the disciplines are different, there needs to be some [self-]education.

S

To Clarify...

[t1nman33]

Part of the problem IS that the term "web developer" is so broad. :)

My biz card says "Sr. Web Developer" on it. That means that my main job involves HTML/JavaScript/Flash work. But I also do Perl/PHP/shell scripting on FreeBSD, tweak Apache and IIS (unfortunately), I'm learning Java, I do graphic design, copywriting, the odd ASP/JSP/CFM work. And sysadmin stuff. And netadmin stuff. You see what I'm getting at?

I'm not some Geocities/FrontPage poseur; I learned to build pages with Notepad and Photoshop 3.0, and I've taught myself 95% of what I know from O'Reilly books and Webmonkey. And I've been gainfully employed in my field since 2000, with the exception of 4 days this past March, which is how long it took me to find a new job. /. is great, don't get me wrong, but there HAS to be something more organized out there for other people like me.

If I were just a "programmer" and worked for IBM or Lockheed-Martin and spent all day living in a cube farm and writing C++, I'd join IEEE and that would be that...I'll check out the ACM for starters.

Local User Groups

[Anml4ixoye]

You don't mention where you are from, but there is usually a user group of something near by. Check Yahoo Groups for things like Perl User Groups, Macromedia User Groups, .NET user groups, and the such.

I live and work in Tampa (for the next few months, anyway) and can usually find *something* to do if I am just looking for geek things to do.

Welcome!

[holzp]

Buddy, you've found it. Brush up on your trolling!

There isn't one

[annielaurie]

Possibly because there aren't any standards out there for the job. Every rockstar or TV show fan with a "site," every business owner's sociopathic 16-year-old nephew, every church minister's wife is a Web designer or developer. The numbers grow with great regularity in June when school lets out and shrink again in September when the kids return to class. Been eking out my daily bread and margarine doing this as my own boss since 2000, and that's been my experience. Even our local art school, which is nationally prestigious, has a lousy Website and an impossibly pompous and chichi list of impractical course offerings.

I like WITI (Women in Technology International) for the collegiality, but there is a gender requirement. I steal my son's ACM goodies since he has a student membership. I read Slashdot over my morning coffee and again over my evening toddy. I make sure I visit A List Apart once a week. (Read the articles there but don't bother with the forums.) I have a long list of sites I visit frequently just to see what people are doing with PHP, PERL, and other things I find the need to keep up with. I have another list I visit less frequently to see what's up in terms of design.

I nurture a few very active correspondences with designers, developers, programmers, and network people I've met over the years. It's kind of like a secret society. You encounter people online. You quietly check out their chops, they quietly check out yours, and you cultivate the correspondence. Sometimes the e-mails actually develop into warm friendships. Sometimes you find people you can team with.

But professional associations just aren't out there.

Regards,
Anne

There isn't one-XML

[Anonymous Coward]

Slightly OT but what do you think about web publishing frameworks like cocoon?

Re:There isn't one-XML

[annielaurie]

Funny you should mention it. Ordinarily I would say that in my case, where most of the businesses I work for are quite small, the opportunity to use such tools doesn't come up much. But two very small verticals have shown up in the past two weeks, both in the area of transportation. While very diverse, they require similar online applications. Three of us are going to talk about them this coming Saturday when we will all have time, and I suspect we'll be looking at Cocoon or something like it. I remain a sincere appreciator of the open-source movement that enables me to have access to tools without locking myself into costly, proprietary systems. If I want to spend the time on study, the tool is mine to use.

Try these... (UK, but accept World Wide)

[REBloomfield]

British Computer Society www.bcs.org.uk Institution of Analysts & Programmers www.iap.org.uk Am a member of both (I'm a Network Admin, but I've done web development work)

Start one!

[spdegabrielle]

1. Start Web Developers Professional Association.
2. Collect members Fees.
3. ???
4. Profit!

Haha kidding - have you checked google - I am sure there are a few organisations proporting to do this already - and take your money.

Information Architecture?

[pmz]

I think O'Reilly's Information Architecture book might have some pointers. However, since web "developers" mostly have no notion of architecture, I guess I'm wasting my time, here.

Re:Information Architecture?

[t1nman33]

Again, this is exactly the problem I'm talking about...when I say "web developer" I don't mean somebody with a copy of HTML for Dummies and MS Paint. I mean, somebody who is a sysadmin, netadmin, graphic designer, information architect, programmer, tech guru, animator, copywriter, marketer, interface designer, etc. etc. etc. and is skilled at all these things. Am I just using the wrong terminology in describing what I do for a living?

Re:Information Architecture?

[pmz]

Am I just using the wrong terminology in describing what I do for a living?

No, it's just a case that you are correct, and so is everyone else. "Web development" is such a broad domain that it rightly includes basically every other discipline, so much so that I generally consider "web developer" to be a joke of a job title. It's a lot like "software engineer" or "analyst" or "associate".

Re:Information Architecture?

[Anonymous Coward]

I mean, somebody who is a sysadmin, netadmin, graphic designer, information architect, programmer, tech guru, animator, copywriter, marketer, interface designer, etc. etc. etc. and is skilled at all these things. Am I just using the wrong terminology in describing what I do for a living?

Let me get this right, you think you are actually skilled at all those tasks? If you are, you're the first super-human who's ever posted to slashdot.

I assume that you actually mean that you do one or two of them well and can stumble your way through the rest (or that's you're delusional).

Re:Information Architecture?

[Anonymous Coward]

You are most definitly using the wrong term. Web developer is apparently just one of the things you do, it does not encompass everything. I believe the correct term is SUCKER, unless you are self-employed then you are both SUCKER and ASSHOLE BOSS in one (;

- a sysadmin, netadmin, db admin, web admin, help desk, etc etc etc

A couple leads

[mcmonkey]

Evolt.org

The HTML Writers Guild: www.hwg.org

The Association of Internet Professionals went tits up, but many of the local associations are still active.

The Society of Internet Professionals: www.sipgroup.org

Re:A couple leads

[markhb]

First I'd heard that the AIP died. I used to be a member (actually, I was a member of the Internet Developers' Association (IDA), which rolled up into the AIP), but they seemed to lose focus after the AIP was born from the IDA, ISIP, and Webmasters' Guild. I wish I knew more about what happened.

Meeting place for web developers

[ghost.]

The unemployment office?

IEEE Computer Society

[ecklesweb]

I recommend the IEEE Computer Society as well as a subscription to comp.infosystems.www.authoring.*.

Another for the list

[Holerith]

The International Webmaster's Association http://www.iwanet.org

The also offer training courses and a certification program if that is what you are looking for. They and the HTML Writer's Guild have recently merged into one organization.

Huh?-McArgument.

[Anonymous Coward]

"I hate this mentality.. I know you were joking, but far too many people believe this."

It's annoying, and you also see this every time we have a discussion on outsourcing (among other subjects) were programming is now a McJob (now in the dictionary), and of course MSCE's are the equivalent of "HTML for dummies". I'm certain there's a psychological reason for it all. I think people forget that there are people who are good at what they do, regardless of what there "title" is. But there's plenty who by "association" make everyone else look bad. Not really fair, but then humanity has a long way to go to reach "fair". Wonder who's going to take the first step?

"Web Developing" is a dying art

[Black Perl]

Web Developers are a dying breed. It used to mean someone who handcrafted HTML or systems to produce HTML. But now, there are mainstream tools to create page designs, to create weblogs and portals and content management systems. Very few people who are web developers need to actually touch the HTML anymore.

Imagine a hypothetical job title of "postscript developer." Sounds ridiculous, right? We don't need anybody that develops postscript. It doesn't matter if they can create better postscript by hand than any tools can. Word processors and page-layout programs can get the job done, by people who would be paid much less than those that know the entire postscript specification.

Well, that's the way things are going with HTML. HTML (and future XML-based variants) will be under-the-hood technology that people don't need to know, unless they're tools developers. And while I don't expect, say, a DreamWeaver-style tool for XSLT for quite some time, the trend is clear. The demand for web developers will continue to decrease.

What can you do about it? Emphasize related skills that are more in demand. Change your title, if you can. Learn portals, CMS technology, weblogs, and how to install and integrate them. Learn new technologies that are in demand but haven't yet been reduced to a commodity by tools. Many XML-based standards are good examples: XSLT, Web Services, SOAP, etc.

Good luck.

Re:"Web Developing" is a dying art

[Randym]

Web Developers are a dying breed. It used to mean someone who handcrafted HTML or systems to produce HTML. But now, there are mainstream tools to create page designs, to create weblogs and portals and content management systems. Very few people who are web developers need to actually touch the HTML anymore.

I've WM'd a certain site for 7 years. (I started writing HTML before tables even existed). The site's been through several incarnations and tools: joe, pagemill [1.0 & 2.0 -- painful], now I use BBE6.1 and my own templates and REGX macros for replacements. It had a [very] short incarnation as a database-driven site. A couple of years ago I added CSS. At various times, it's used server-side includes, javascript and [currently] PHP to serve ads. I just went to MacOSX; now I'll be able to write perl and use BBE on the same system.

Yet I still "touch the HTML" on a regular basis. Things are always changing and I'm always learning. Maybe in the future I'll have some reason to add some XML in there, or I might want to drop a little Flash movie in there somewhere [no, not on the front page 8^], or perhaps I can be part of TimBL's semantic web.

I guess I don't care if "professional" web developers are dying off -- they're latecomers (from my perspective) anyway.

Re:"Web Developing" is a dying art

[Anonymous Coward]

Jezz. The screenshots on the BBE page or fuzzy and you can't click to get bigger versions. Sounds pretty sucky.

Ones I know of

[hether]

The HWG (the HTML Writers Guild) merged with IWA (International Webmasters Association). More info at http://www.iwanet.org/ They have more than 100 chapters worldwide, offer classes online, certification, mailing lists, etc.

There's also WOW (World Organization of Webmasters)
They offer conferences, certification, etc.

Specifically for University and College web developers there's UwebD
They have a great mailing list

Pain no attention to the more than half of the non-constructive posts slamming your current profession. Unfortunately any mention of working with websites on /. seems to get you slews of comments about how you aren't a real tech and your job will be obsolete soon. At least you have a job, and probably a pretty interesting one.

Nope, sorry.

[oneiros27]

I got my degree in civil engineering. Although when I went to get a transcript when applying for a federal job, I found my university claims I never graduated, so not only have I never used my coursework for a professional purpose, but I can't even claim I have a degree and still pass vetting.