Best Buy Uses DMCA To Quash Black Friday Prices

Sethb writes "It looks like Best Buy didn't learn from Wal-Mart last year, and has now invoked the DMCA in order to prevent FatWallet from posting information about what items they will have on sale the day after Thanksgiving. Hopefully FatWallet will stand up for themselves again, and Best Buy will be laughed out of court."

Comments

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[j0keralpha]

Major Book Publishers use DMCA to quash blurbs and book reviews!

This law is getting just a shade ridiculous.

Not really fair to disclose this information.

[Sheetrock]

Much of a store's profits are made on strategy. When this kind of data is released, it cuts into the ability of a business to price things appropriately to the demand.

I'm not saying the DMCA oughta cover this, but this is definitely something that can hurt business.

Re:Not really fair to disclose this information.

[Trepalium]

Just because something hurts business (or profits, rather), doesn't mean it should be illegal.

Re:Not really fair to disclose this information.

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it also unfair to get several quotes, or search pricewatch to compare prices ?

Or to wait til you can get a good deal on a used one on ebay ?

How about having an above average IQ ? That cuts into your usefulness as a consumer also.

Just because a business thought of a way to make money, doesn't mean actions that make that way look stupid are somehow "unfair". It's just as "unfair" to not let me read all the ads before I go shopping.

Re:Not really fair to disclose this information.

[t0rnt0pieces]

Much of a store's profits are made on strategy. When this kind of data is released, it cuts into the ability of a business to price things appropriately to the demand.

Doesn't FatWallet have a right to make money too? Best Buy should have guarded their pricing info better. Besides, you don't think Best Buy sends people to other stores to check prices?

Re:Not really fair to disclose this information.

[JayBlalock]

The entire basis of a (more or less) free market economy and its success is the ability of consumers to make learned, rational market decisions which are in their own interest. Advertising today, however, relies far more on trickery, psychological games, and "invisible" price hikes and drops than actually producing a quality product at a competitive price. If it is harmful to Best Buy for just their *prices* to be made public, then it means Best Buy is doing business in such a way that basically undermines the functioning of our economy.

Much of the reason the system seems so out of wack right now is that it's the company who has the most clever advertising that wins, NOT the one actually producing the best product. And that's very destructive in the long run.

Re:Not really fair to disclose this information.

[k12linux]

Much of a store's profits are made on strategy. When this kind of data is released, it cuts into the ability of a business to price things appropriately to the demand.

Actually it would cause a business to more accurately price things appropriately to demand. But that's not what they want is it? They want to be able to price things above what demand would dictate so they can have higher profits. In this case they don't even want to do that.. they want to force people into the stores to find loss-leader items so they can sell them the high-profit items along with or instead of the low priced items.

From what I remember in civics (history/government) class long ago there were no items in the Constitution or Bill of Rights which guarantee businesses high margins at the expense of other citizens. Funny how things which hurt margins (not destroy sales.. but hurt margins) in favor of the rest of society are suddenly becomming illegal in the U.S.

I own a small business. Current US policies (even legitimate use of DMCA) don't appear to do one bit of good for small business. They only seem to help big business... which already has tons of tax breaks and other benefits none of the rest of us get.

No scans?

[saikou]

I always thought that prices per se can't be copyrighted. Now situation when people post scan of upcoming ads (which was not the case with BestBuy and FatWallet) can probably fall under copyright violation, as only author of that page can lawfully distribute it (short of posting it with design/layout critique and "never use this font in publication" kind of thing :) )

In this particular case it's not worth it anyways, as most of the deals were easily available from other retailers for about the same price. It would be good though, to finally get those lawyers into the court and get a precedent of them being slapped with "No can't do" decision. That way any upcoming price-related DMCA cases would be still-born :)

Re:Not really fair to disclose this information?

[TedCheshireAcad]

Is it the primary purpose of society/government/law to protect business?

The primary purpose of government/law is to further the advancement of society; but unfortunately sometimes we lose sight of that.

Re:Interesting...

[crayz]

And if our government's sole function was to ensure the highest possible profits for Best Buy, you'd have a point.

Instead, as a poster pointed out earlier in this topic, our economy is more or less based on free market principles. The foundation of the free market is the ability of the members of that market to be able to make informed decisions about their economic choices(e.g. buying something). By saying that Best Buy has the right to prevent people from sharing information about its prices, you are implicitly tossing out a free market in favor of a "lets make the rich richer" market.

Wonderful

You mean fighting our culture, right?

[fredmosby]

America has been based on consumerism for the last 50 years. Doesn't that make it part of American culture?

Re:You mean fighting our culture, right?

[Ryan Amos]

You act like consumerism is a bad thing. Consumerism is what drives economies. A steady increase in consumer spending almost inevitably leads to a boom period for the economy. When people stop consuming at a high rate, the economy heads down. It's also really, really stupid to have "buy nothing day" on the biggest shopping day of the year. The amount of money flying around on the day after Thanksgiving are so high that companies are not going to notice if a few broke hippies don't shop that day. If you want anyone to notice your stand against The Man, you should do it on a slow shopping day when more people might be willing to comply with you.

Also, the cool thing about America is that there is no single culture. There are urban cultures, rural cultures, religious cultures, and so on. Each one draws from a different set of influences. America has no defining culture because our population is so diverse. Each culture has its own different food, literature, art, music, etc. Mexican-American culture is significantly different from Mexican culture.

You also seem to be mixing up the iconography of a culture with the true values of a culture. I think most Italians would probably be offended if all you could think about Italy was pasta. All the Coke analogy proves is that Coke has been successful at selling their image. Everyone knows Coke is from America, whether it's an important part of our culture or not, so you just kind of make the relation.

MAYBE this DMCA thing was a bad idea...

[erroneus]

Okay let's assume for a moment that these (let's call them) "lawyers" are professionals of the legal profession. This assumption would lead one to understand that these "lawyers" are reasonably intelligent, educated and keep current with the practice and application of law.

Given that there has been prior failure of the exact same application of the law we fondly refer to as the "DMCA" and assuming they are aware of this, then it is clear that these "lawyers" are not interested in using the "DMCA" as it was intended and are instead using it as a refridgerator. (As a means to apply a "chilling effect" to anything that might seem like competition or might otherwise endanger their profitability.)

I know I am really out on a limb here suggesting that these "lawyers" would even dream of using law for purposes it was never intended. But I'm just presenting a possible explanation for their behavior without suggesting they are morons.

Not Good Enough

[CarlDenny]

Hopefully FatWallet will stand up for themselves again, and Best Buy will be laughed out of court.

No, no, NO.

If Best Buy gets laughed out of court in the middle of December, they've already won. Fat Wallet took down their ads, had to hire a lawyer, free speech was stifled.

I am sad to see that FatWallet blinked this time, after staring down Walmart and getting them to back down. The argument that facts cannot be copyrighted seems solid, and the DMCA shouldn't change that (except for removign due proes, of course.) We need this case to go to court, and the countersuit to be pursued even after Best Buy drops it two weks after the fact.

Fuckers.

The only possible good outcome here is if Fat Wallet stood up, kept up the ads, and countersued.

The DMCA doesn't change whether something is copyrightable, and facts

Re:national buy nothing day

[Saeger]

I just want to know what the hullabaloo about buy nothing day really is.

It's to get you thinking about what the fuck you're doing with your life and the world around you.

Why are you filling your life up with useless shit (made by slave-labor in China)? What's the point? Are you charging it to a credit card that you've never had a zero balance on? Does it make you feel happier than no-money fun with friends/family? Why is that?

--

Squelch is on high

[djupedal]

'they' don't want:

• Movie premier instant reviews
• Book reviews/blurbs/comments
• Black Friday pre-sale prices devulged
• Speed trap location tip-offs
• Arrest warrant sweeps announced
• Car computers modified to prohibit insurance snooping
• Stop-light camera locations mapped

We don't want....them. Us vs. them. If 'they' trusted 'us', we might trust them. In the mean time...give 'em hell.

Re:national buy nothing day

[Safety Cap]

Why would you bother keeping a credit card with a zero balance on it?

Any number of reasons:

• You don't want to pay rent (interest) on the card, but you still want the convenience.
• You want to use a card for the protections it offers (getting your money back in the event the product is defective or in the event that a mail-order product doesn't even exist).
• You wish to make a large purchase and you don't wish to carry that much cash on your person
• You want to avoid writing a check that can be later used to drain your bank account.

Note that a debit card offers some of these protections, but the fact that your money can be tied up during an investigation makes the debit card a dangerous and unsuitable substitute for a credit card.

Re:actually a good use for once

[Todd Knarr]

Hmm, let's see. This is supposed to be private information at the moment. Should a person (or a company) have the right to keep sensitive information private if it poses no harm to anyone? I'm inclined to answer yes.

I'm inclined to answer yes to that question too, but that isn't the question in this case. The question is, once BestBuy has failed to keep the information private, do they have a right to force someone else to take on the duty of non-disclosure even though they haven't signed a non-disclosure agreement? That, I'm inclined to answer a big loud "No!" to. If BestBuy wants to keep their prices private, the onus is on them to keep them private, not the rest of us.

consumerism means bankrupt values

[JimmytheGeek]

the endless pursuit of stuff is killing us and what's worse, it's making us shallower.

I'm afraid that Coke is a pretty good shorthand reference for American culture. American cities are hidious, with maybe two exceptions (San Fran, New Orleans). The sole urban design goal seems to be the breakdown of community and conversion of citizens to consumers. We've lost a tremendous amount of personal time to work. Is that a good trade-off? What about pro-family values? Can you raise your kids from work? Once they are fed, housed, and clothed, is the delta income worth the -delta face time? Did you get a choice re: -delta face time?

GDP is not a sound measure of societal health. I don't think it's even a good measure of economic health. Where externalities aren't monetized (you aren't charged for pollution), but cancer treatments are, you have a skewed measurement and eventually warped values. /end rant gotta get some sleep