Slashdot Mirror


The Riches of Open Source

Daniel Dvorkin writes "This BusinessWeek article argues convincingly that Linus Torvalds has more resources at his disposal than Bill Gates. Not only is it a nice overview of Why Open Source Really Matters pitched to a non-technical audience, but it makes a solid argument in favor of OSS in general and Linux in particular, from a solidly capitalist perspective."

31 of 693 comments (clear)

  1. Branding, PHP, ASP by dolo666 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Linus Torvalds is not the only one with more resources because of the open source community. Everyone, including Bill Gates, has more resources at their disposal, because of the open source community. We have improved knowledge on all fronts, due to the hobbying of business, as seen from the Open Source community. Hobbies that become replacements for standards, cause positive growth, and better solutions. I think it's because of the love and passion that everyone puts into their hobbies, in hope that they can get somewhere other folks haven't been before. It's like a kind of space exploration, but with the benefit that you can do it in your own basement or home office, den, on a plane or anywhere for that matter. PHP is a great example of how good application of Open Source can make for a much easier and better tool than other, less loved products like ASP.

    How many people love ASP? I'm guessing not as many as those who really do love PHP or Perl. :)

    You see that because we can all work together to make our products better, the global knowledge is shared and improved upon. Years ago, way before computers, we all had a similar thing to open source. It was called learning and we all did it together. Scholars spent their lives enriching the world with their findings, to better humanity.

    Open source is in this same spirit, for mutual benefit based on recognition of participation, not branding, per se. Microsoft spends millions on branding, on marketing, packaging and distrobution. They could easily make loads more money if they focused instead on a model closer to the Open Source model. Who knows, maybe they are counting on it in the future, but likely they are not. Likely Microsoft is going to keep selling us the same regurgitated products they do every year, with new packaging and more "updates". I for one, will keep supporting Open Office.

    1. Re:Branding, PHP, ASP by Red+Leader. · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not so fast. If patents and trade secrets (closed source) are used to restrict the dissemination and use of ideas, then free markets do not necessarily improve global knowledge and products. Closed source and restrictive licensing leads to each firm re-inventing the wheel for itself. This unnecessarily duplicates effort and reduces the efficiency of society.

      I got bored and stopped reading your post after the first few paragraphs, but I don't think the article addressed the notion of monopoly so much as it did the benefits of open knowledge maintained on a pride-based, volunteer basis. The article was really geared toward contemplating the strength and power of non-monetary motivations, leading the reader to think about the corresponding societal implcations of such alternative forms of motivation to do work.

  2. It's a wonderful life by spidergoat2 · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm sure that Linus has more friends than Bill Gates anyway.

    1. Re:It's a wonderful life by nyet · · Score: 5, Funny

      >People who have insane amounts of drive and passion for life and their work (like Bill Gates) have plenty of friends.

      Nope. I have first hand accounts that Bill Gates is a pariah at parties and social events. He mostly sits in the corner alone because nobody will talk to him.

  3. Slavery is illegal, so... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Bill Gates has to pay people to work for him. Linus does not. Advantage: Linus.

    1. Re:Slavery is illegal, so... by Uma+Thurman · · Score: 5, Funny

      I've been jacking off for 10 years while all you people wrote me an operating system. Thanks!

      Advantage: furious masturbator

      --
      This is America, damnit. Speak Spanish!
  4. Trial and error? by Realistic_Dragon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's a commonly repeated manta that you can't understand something until you have broken it. The BusinessWeek article suggests that frequently being able to apply this principle to Linux is what moves it forwards.

    I disagree. On that basis Outlook Express would be the best e-mail client on the planet. Hell, the thing's been broken for over a decade now.

    --
    Beep beep.
    1. Re:Trial and error? by shystershep · · Score: 5, Insightful

      you can't understand something until you have broken it.

      Ah, grasshopper, you do not yet have full understanding: breaking alone is not sufficient. There must also be a desire to keep it from breaking again.

      If all you care about is making work long enough to sucker Joe Average into buying it, well . . .

      --
      The bigotry of the nonbeliever is for me nearly as funny as the bigotry of the believer. - Albert Einstein
  5. Linus is my Shepherd by kallisti777 · · Score: 5, Funny

    The open source community is, according to the article, "a vast flock of very creative, un-sheeplike sheep".

    I have little to add to that... it's just a great line. Beware of getting fleeced by SCO. ;-)

    --
    Vanya's Law: "In any culture without irony, fart jokes will be the highest form of humor."
  6. Ask VS Order by BadCable · · Score: 5, Interesting

    But there is a huge difference.

    Linus can ASK the world to do something, but if they don't like the way he's thinking, they won't do it. Linus controls the world as long as the world likes the orders. So in a sense he's just a way to focus the desires of the majority of developers.

    Gates on the other hand can ORDER everyone in his employ to jump around and shout "I'm a little idiot!" and they'll have to do it wether they like it or not. Thats a huge difference. Gates has the world as his playground.

    1. Re:Ask VS Order by neiffer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Most certainly, that is true. But I wonder if (and I'm just thinking out loud here) that's why much of Microsoft software is bloated and bug-ridden. Gates demends software does X and Y to expand feature but the coding and innovation required might be the code version of moving mountains. In the community open-source model, many features get coded because there is a community movement towards it as it works into the code slowly and incrementally. Just a thought...

  7. The simple truth... by neiffer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...is that open source software, assuming it can weather legal and business challenges (**cough**SCO?**cough**), will always have an army of part time coders and testers that will work out holes, plug leaks and innovate products. However, I think the challenge for open source is that often times several different groups are writing competing code for competing projects will little consideration of the massive duplication (witness many distributions of Linux, many of which are functionally identical) in efforts. The successful projects in the open source world are projects that can agree on standards, organize factions of programmers, and distribute to a wide audience.

  8. Torvalds "must" do things by Azghoul · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Interesting article (yes, I read it), but one thing I don't understand. The author states early on that "Both men must find ways to motivate people to work together so knowledge can spread and have maximum impact on improving software quality."

    I don't see Linus doing that kind of thing. Does he, personally, motivate a damn thing? It's not like I studied the history of this "movement", but didn't he basically just toss the infant OS out there for whomever to use in whatever way?

    Maybe I'm reading too much into it...

    1. Re:Torvalds "must" do things by swillden · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't see Linus doing that kind of thing. Does he, personally, motivate a damn thing? It's not like I studied the history of this "movement", but didn't he basically just toss the infant OS out there for whomever to use in whatever way?

      I think Linus, personally, does a *lot* of motivation, and is largely responsible for the success of his baby, even though at this point he's only personally written a small fraction of the code. It's largely his laid-back style, sense of humor, focus on excellence and excellent geek management and motivation skills that have made Linux the phenomenon it is. I mean, have you ever thought about just how remarkable it is that he's still the man "in charge"?

      Now that Linux has grown up to become worth billions and is a major focus of the largest computer companies in the world, wouldn't you expect that the Finnish CS student that hacked the first version for his own entertainment and enlightenment would be replaced by someone (or several someones) more "senior"? I would have expected that he would be "retired" to a sort of Linux elder statesman and historical figure, but that did not happen.

      The reason it hasn't happened is because Linus is really good. He's a top-notch programmer who really excels at making code tight, clean and clear; he's shown himself to be an excellent manager in the weird sort of way required by open source projects; and he's got excellent geek interpersonal skills. Sure, he pisses people off from time to time, but not often, and no one seems to get really mad at him. Given his prominence, isn't it amazing that there aren't any big "I hate Linus" sites? (unlike RMS or ESR, to name two).

      Consider also the fact that not only has Linux not forked, there have never really been any serious attempts at a fork. Sure there are bunches of parallel trees, each maintained by different people, but all of them regard Linus' tree as "official" and use it as their base.

      Linus' approach to motivation is very laid back, but it's real. Mostly it consists of a combination of gentle encouragement to newbies first trying their hand at kernel hacking; ruthless aggressiveness in refusing patches that don't meet his standards and goals, regardless of who they come from; and a very strong ability to placate people and defuse situations via logical arguments and (often humorous) analogies, without giving in. Regardless of precisely how he does it, he's very good at it, as evidenced both by the growth of Linux and his still-central place within the movement.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  9. alternative to windows? by rezza · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The community of Linux users and developers is held together by pride and the thrill of working toward a common goal of a universal (...) alternative to Windows Hmm... I thought that a lot of people were contributing to Linux simply because they like the idea of an open source OS, and believe that it is the best way to produce software... irrespective of wethere or not it's going to be an "alternative" to windows. Not everybody who uses/contributes to Linux does so out of a burning desire to compete with windows.

    1. Re:alternative to windows? by kasperd · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not everybody who uses/contributes to Linux does so out of a burning desire to compete with windows.

      Actually the original goal of the free software movement was more like creating an alternative to Unix. At that time I think Windows wasn't even an option. Today you have to compete with Microsoft whether you like it or not. Why? Because Microsoft is putting obstacles in the way of all your development. A lot of Hardware and software is only tested with Windows. Some hardware manufactors only provide Windows drivers, and documentation only to closed source developers. A lot of people try to produce data that can only be read by Windows programs. This is how the world looks today, Microsoft has way too much power already, that is the only reason they can get away with the crap they provide. It is something you simply have to fight, because Microsoft is directly or indirectly responsible for a lot of your problems with Linux, whether you like it or not.

      --

      Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
  10. Really? by FreeLinux · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If this is true then one must wonder why Linus doesn't utilize more of these available resources. Why does he instead have a relatively small group of hackers working on only a kernel? Why, with all his resources, is he not developing, embracing and extending a plethora of other operating system components and applications?

    The fact is that while open source does offer the potential of having a very vast number of developers owrking on a project or multiple projects, the reality is that few developers actually participate. Combine this with the fact that they are driven to participate based on their interest or itch and we end up with a fine kernel, a few great apps and an abundance of mp3 players.

    The potential is there for Linus to have more resources than Bill Gates but, the reality is that Linus has no where near the resources of Bill Gates.

  11. Obligatory mantra to Torvalds by Mr.+Sketch · · Score: 5, Funny

    Our PC GOD Torvalds, which art in Transmeta^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H OSDL
    Hallowed be thy skillz
    Thy kernel comes, in the US and all the earth
    Give us this day our daily updates.
    And forgive us our holes, as we apply thine patch.
    And lead us not into closed source, but deliver us from Microsoft.
    For thine is the kernel, the skillz, and the leetness for ever and ever. Amen.

  12. More ability to use resources+fewer hassles by randall_burns · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Linus also has more ability to actually use his resources. He's not spending time with folks like Warren Buffet playing bridge-he's focused on technical issues. Linus may have a few "yes men" around distorting his perception, but nothing like Bill Gates.

    The kind of extreme wealth Bill Gates has also brings some serious hassles. Gates can't travel anyplace without security measures--and even with those security measures, a suicide bomber in a station wagon full of fertilizer and diesel fuel could take him out at any time. Anyone that has to think about this sort of stuff-or hire people to think about this sort of stuff has a problem.

    Gates, to his credit, at least seems to have some old friends(some prominent Silicon Valley executives don't). Still, I honestly suspect that if money were suddenly worthless (say due to a major economic collapse or EMP of the financial system), Linus would be in a much stronger position than Gates.

  13. Yes. He does. by mindstrm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Though not necessarily intentionally.

    Like Taoist philosophy.. a great leader leads without leading, a great ruler rules without ruling...

    Linus does not necessarily view himself as a manager or leader, but he IS ONE, regardless, and a very highly successful one at that.

    The OSS movement focuses on Linus as a centerpiece, a leader, whether he wants them to or not... When Linus speaks, people listen.. and very few actually disagree with him, at least openly.

    Anti-Linux peple will say "Oh, you have this one guy who runs the kernel like a tyrant.. what if what he does doesn't match up with what big business wants?".. well, he's been doing alright for a decade, regardless of what his motives are, you can't argue that.
    that's more than we can say for a great many guys with MBAs running billion dollar companies.

    Linus coordinates more people in a really loose environment, and produces a heck of a product... go figure.

    Yes, I realize it's not all his grand plan, but he is the focal point, the leader.

  14. Where are all the smart folks going... by TempusMagus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Talking to students at university and meeting folks in technology in general, I've really started to notice a braindrain away from Microsoft products. I'm really not trying to flamebait, but it seems that people who are really into computer science and doing innovative things with computers are staying away from Microsoft products in droves.

    I also mention this because we were looking at hiring Jr. developers and kept observing a incredibly different mindset between those who were .NET developers and those who were not (usually Java guys). The personality difference was startling. Has anyone else ever had to compare MS and non-MS people side by side? I'm serious, the non MS people seemed more creative, inventive and - well - smart. Meanwhile the MS .NET people seemed more like, I hate to say this,managers? If you are in a corporate environment and need to do everything the MS way - the whole "managerial" vibe is a positive trait. You need someone to impliment MS solutions, not create solutions. But the huge side-effect IMHO is that all the smart people doing cool stuff are running as fast as they can away from MS.

    I think this impacts MS future big-time. Has anyone else had this experience or read an article about this?

    --
    -_-
  15. Disagree by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Linus has a worldwide army of voluteer and hobbyist developers, testers, etc. Bill has the employees at Microsoft.

    But MS also has a worldwide army of volunteer and hobbyist developers, building tools and solutions with MS products. Some good, some not so good.
    MS also has many, many manufacturers tripping all over themselves building and testing hardware drivers for their products.

  16. Torvalds partially misportrayed by sacrilicious · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Torvalds rightfully revels in not planning. He's counting on the marketplace's judgment of Linux and the wisdom of his disorganized organization as a better strategy.

    Wrong. Torvalds is not counting on the marketplace's judegement of anything. In every interview he plainly states that he has no market-driven or competetive goals whatsoever. He simply wants to make Linux improve over time for whoever chooses to use it, whether that is ten people or a billion.

    --
    - First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
  17. I don't think so. by Orien · · Score: 5, Interesting
    They could easily make loads more money if they focused instead on a model closer to the Open Source model.

    Do you honestly believe that? Look, I would LOVE to see MS adopt a more open model, but that is because I know how much it would benefit me, and the rest of the tech community, not because I believe for a minute that it would actually be better for Microsoft. Do you really think they would have 90% market share with open source products? Of course not. They got where they are by not sharing the pie with anyone. If they opened up, others would take what they have done and run with it. People would release 100% compatible versions of Windows, Office, IIS, etc that were more secure with less bug fixes, and Microsoft would have to work harder, spend more money in development and QA, and still end up with less of the market, thus less money. For that matter why would anyone buy XP if Windows NT 4 was still under active development by an open source community that made it just as modern and up to date? Would all this be good for the rest of the world? Yes. Would it make MS "loads more money"? Absolutely not.

    1. Re:I don't think so. by Osty · · Score: 5, Interesting

      For that matter why would anyone buy XP if Windows NT 4 was still under active development by an open source community that made it just as modern and up to date?

      Why would anyone buy Quake 3 if Quake 1 was still under active development by an open source community that made it just as modern and up to date?


      There have been many projects based on the GPLed code of Quake 1, like Quake Tenebrae which adds graphical capabilities that surpass Quake 3 and are nearly on par with Doom 3. Yet people still buy new games. Maybe it's an unfair comparison, since the single-player gameplay of Quake 1 is different than that of Quake 3, but then again the multiplayer can be extremely similar.

  18. What a crappy "article" by sethamin · · Score: 4, Insightful
    This article is pure fluff. It makes a populist statement ("Linus has more resources! Yay!"), and then does absolutely nothing to back it up. Here's just a few of the glaring oversights he failed to address:
    -The most obvious one: If Linux has so many more resources, than why doesn't it have all the features of Windows already? Flame me all you want, but it doesn't.
    -Even though Linus has "the millions who use Linux and continue to tinker with it", in reality there are very few contributors (definitely not millions). Windows also has a larger installed base and thus a larger possible base of testers. How does that factor in?
    -It neglects the fact that Linus's disadvantage solely as a gatekeeper, instead of director, is that unpopular, tedious, but necessary work might never get done. One advantage of motivating with money is that you can force people to do work they might not otherwise elect to do. I mean, how many MP3 players does Linux need?
    -I don't think BillG has any trouble sleeping at night. Linux might be a threat to his company, but it's not going to make him a lowly multimillionaire any time soon.

    What a bunch of cheerleading.

  19. Re:what about GNU by anagama · · Score: 4, Insightful


    After some comments a week or so ago about Stallman not being a good public speaker, I decided to listen to his speeches and hear for myself. I admit that I too have had a sort of "get over yourself" attitude about him - but I'm realizing as I listen to what he has to say, that I developed this by listening to others who have that attitude, rather than listening to RMS. I won't say I don't have any of that attitude left, but I will say that I think he raises some very provacative issues in his speeches. When he talks about the history of the project, I can also understand why he desires some credit for his and his group's efforts. He did afterall, quit a nice cushy job on principle - I've never done that, I think most people haven't. I respect that "put your money where your mouth is" level of conviction.

    Anyway, I don't know that I concurr with all he says, but I do have a lot more respect for him after listening to his talks for a few hours. And incidently, while he may not sparkle like a movie star, his presentations are good. And that is how it should be - they are informative works rather than works of entertainment.

    --
    What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
  20. If all you value is saving money... by jbn-o · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You will have no reason not to switch to proprietary software when the proprietary software is low-cost. Despite what Open Source movement proponents say about making better code, many so-called Open Source programs are functionally inferior to their proprietary competitors. If all you value is saving money or the practical ends that the Open Source movement champions, you'll never miss the freedom to share and modify software. It's great to get someone interested in Free Software by demonstrating practical use, and it's true some people are uncomfortable talking about ethics and responsibility as well as convenience. But the Free Software community was not built by giving into whatever businesses want. The FSF wrote an interesting essay comparing the Free Software movement with the Open Source movement.

    Crediting Linus Torvalds as an altrustic operator is simply incorrect. Torvalds' brand of pragmatism falls squarely into the problem I just described--his use of Bitkeeper is a perfect example. He is also not "Linux' guardian" (as the BusinessWeek article claims). If that title is accurate at all, it properly belongs to the GNU General Public License, the preeminent Free Software license written by the FSF: the organization whose ethical basis Torvalds dismisses.

  21. Re:Who give more? by ReelOddeeo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I guess it's okay then to monopolize an entire industry, stifle innovation, crush competitors, and enrich yourself through monopoly pricing as long as you give lots of money to charities.

    Read the book: Big Blue - IBM's Use and Abuse of Power.

    This trick of giving lots of money to charities is something IBM figured out in about 1918 or thereabout. That book is quite a lesson on monopoly behavior, and it is amazing how well it describes Microsoft's behavior.

    --

    Those who would give up liberty in exchange for security and DRM should switch to Microsoft Palladium!
  22. Re:Who give more? by kinnell · · Score: 4, Funny

    And lets not forget the thousands of extra IT jobs Bill has created because people have to constantly repair damage caused by his broken software.

    --
    If I seem short sighted, it is because I stand on the shoulders of midgets
  23. There's more evidence to justify his point. by dwheeler · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The paper doesn't identify many relevant statistics showing that the open source software community has huge resources, but the evidence is out there.

    My paper More than a Gigabuck: Estimating GNU/Linux's Size measured Red Hat Linux 7.1. It found that this distribution had over 30 million physical source lines of code (SLOC), it would cost over $1 billion (a Gigabuck) to develop this Linux distribution by conventional proprietary means in the U.S. (in year 2000 U.S. dollars), and would have required about 8,000 person-years of development time. Over one year's time, it represented a 60% increase in size, effort, and traditional development costs.

    Another study (inspired by mine) looked at Debian 2.2. The found that Debian 2.2 includes more than 55 million physical SLOC, and would have cost nearly $1.9 billion USD using over 14,000 person-years to develop using traditional proprietary techniques.

    Linus, of course, doesn't have any sort of real control of GNU/Linux outside the kernel. But in the context of this article, the real issue seems to be a comparison of the open source / Free software community (as represented by GNU/Linux, the Linux kernel, and Linus Torvalds) versus Microsoft. And in that sense, this community has managed to acquire an absolutely astounding amount of resources, since it's managed to become competitive with Microsoft in spite of the many roadblocks it's had to handle (lack of hardware vendor support, perception that the approach can't work, etc.).

    More quantitative data showing that there cases where open source software / free software is competitive is available in my paper "Why OSS/FS? Look at the Numbers!".

    --
    - David A. Wheeler (see my Secure Programming HOWTO)