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Dell To Techs: Don't Help Customers Remove Spyware
Alien54 writes "Well, more exactly, be advised that if you are giving a Dell for Xmas, not only will it probably come preloaded with spyware, but their tech support lines will refuse to tell users how to remove it, and will not give people advice on where to find some good tools to remove it. As seen in the latest newsletter from SpyWareInfo, Dell sent an internal memo to its tech support minions which says in part: 'NOTICE: Use of spyware removal software may conflict with user license agreements of other applications installed on your system. Please consult your user license agreements for further information. Dell does not endorse the use of spyware removal software and cannot provide support on these products.' This means we do not take callers to download.com or doxdesk.com, nor do we recommend spyware removal programs, nor do we advise callers on the use of spyware removal programs. This includes using phrases "We don't support the removal of spyware, but I use..."'" (Read on below.Update: 12/03 06:36 GMT by T : And for an update, too.)
"Now isn't that just nifty. Several folks in the antispyware/antivirus community have signed an open letter to Dell Inc. asking them to retract this possibly foolish and misguided policy. That letter is located at here." Update: 12/03 06:36 GMT Mike Healan, editor of spywareinfo.com, writes "The original posting is misleading.
Dell is absolutely not installing or preinstalling spyware and the
headline gives the impression that it is."
Who's lawyers called up theirs to tell them user license agreements would be violated if Dell techs told people how to remove Spyware and therefore make Dell liable and sueable?!
Well, no matter, we wipe all the Dells we get in at my company (thank god for RIS).
Jeesh...
so yeah, this is a terrible idea.
I work in an on-campus computer repair shop. We're the Dell certified repair center for the entire college.
We pretty much only sell Dells to incoming students, and we're always getting them back in with "my computer is slow." we boot it up and find out they have like 90 million spyware/adaware apps installed. SaveNow, Gator, PrecisionTime, New.Net, WhenUSave, MySearch, SearchNow, IE.Net Drivers, and the list goes on.
Usually we just remove all of them however we can and send them on their way, but apparently if we do this, we'll now be breaking Dells Warranty?
this is definitely not cool, since we can't do that and stay certified...
In the open letter from the anti-spyware community, they say a representative from Dell informed them the response would be: "Call your ISP."
If that's true, it's a travesty. That's like your car insurance provider telling you that dealing with damage to your vehicle from a collision should be dealt with by the Department of Transportation.
I don't understand why Dell doesn't grab the bull by the horns and partner up with somebody. Isn't that what all the pre-packaged computer companies do these days? They all have a buddy in the anti-virus industry. When digital music became the craze, they leapt to bundle MusicMatch and the like. Why not call up LavaSoft and say, "Want to get packed in with everything we sell?" Dell's choice seems like a step away from gaining customer confidence.
I work for an ISP, and we received advance warning of this about two days ago. The reason we're concerned is because our policy generally states that if it's not a problem with the cable modem, then it's a problem with the computer and thus the customer needs to call the manufacturer. Spyware falls into the category of "problem with the computer". I've been recommending the use of SpybotS&D for about four months now and haven't been blasted by the managers, but other techs are undoubtedly going to get the "but Dell said spyware was something you guys could fix since it uses the internet" song and dance from customers.
Not that Dell or my company has the right answer either way, but I just wish the weaselly fucks who write spyware would just stop.
"Why Subscribe?" Good question...
Bah!
There is no porn-ware I have not conquered.
One of my clients in a hard-core freak (it's his business, only guys work there, and his PC is largely private anyway. The man has Voyeurweb for his home page, for crissakes) who keeps falling for variations on "Porn Dialer" installers.
The really vile stuff tends to hang a piece of itself in win.ini, where it'll get re-collected into the registry on every reboot. You smack it out with the registry editor or msconfig and it comes back because a little installer that's loaded up because of unpreventable 16-bit Windows compatibility crap.
I've also seen pornware smart enough to modify system DLLs AND the copy in dllcache. sfc.exe fixes that sort of thing, and packages that pull a new.net and redirect DNS requests. Evil stuff.
I don't know where those programs come from but the guys who make those programs are just showing where mainstream spyware will be going next.
-- I wanna decide who lives and who dies - Crow T. Robot, MST3K
It's just legal FUD. I cannot honestly believe that Dell is scared of breaking some totally unenforceable third-party EULAs.
There has to be another reason why they are doing this. I can't think of any good ones though...
A Multiplayer Strategy Game for Mac OS X, Windows, and Linux
I stopped in at the local gateway barn, and asked about their machines. If you install Linux on your gateway - you void the warrenty.
If you install Linux on your gateway - you void the warrenty.
Even on the hardware? Is that legal?
You make the mistake of thinking you can educate the fundamental stupidity out of people. You can't.
Funny, i stopped recommending Dell a number of years ago. and this is why, Useless tech support, Using lexmark OEMed printers that abuse the DCMA and are counter to competition and customers choice not to be price gouged.
Let see i recall the time that i had a dead *clicking* harddrive and the tech wanted me to boot to a dos floppy to attempt to access the NTFS formatted hard drive. All of these things i made him aware of. i left the receiver on the clicking drive for 5 minutes while i wasted time making up the dos floppy he requested. this is but one of a number of unpleasant and unproductive support calls to dell.
So now i have 3 reasons. 1) stupid support 2) OEMed DMCA abuse, and 3) factory installed spyware.
They are not shipping PCs with spyware on it already, they just aren't telling people how to install programs like ad-aware etc. They don't have any requirement to do so, they support problems with the PCs as they ship them, not with extra programs on them.
Stop making stuff up... where do you get this crap information from?
Well, I know it sounds crazy, but i went through the same harddrive problem you just described...
However, we put the dead and clicking harddrive (it wouldnt boot b/c the motherboard wouldnt recognize it) into another computer as a slave, and even though that computer's motherboard didn't recognize it either, windows was still able to access and read it, and the drive still works as a slave to this day (only a few weeks after the fact, but still).
I considered myself fairly knowledgable about computers, but I was really surprised to find that a hard drive was readable even when it wasnt recognized by the BIOS and was unbootable.. so maybe if you had booted off a DOS disk, you could have read it. It never hurts to try something... (also, we froze the harddrive for several hours to try to resuscitate it... I dunno if it helped, but it didnt kill the drive.)
I don't know about you, but the people I know recognize me as someone who is very busy. I occasionally help out friends/family with computer problems[*], but there's no way I could possibly keep up if they all came to me with all their computer-related problems.
Even so, I'm more likely to recommend they get it from a smaller dealer or, for somewhat more knowledgeable people, stretch themselves by trying to build it themselves (I help pick out good parts). I tell them to take it to a place in-town for help if they need it. The per-incident cost, though it doesn't seem like it, will actually be less than the up-front support cost at a place like Dell.
[*] - It's much easier to solve the problem when you know the person's skill level and are actually there. Even assuming there is someone competent on the other end of the support line (a shaky assumption), they're handicapped, so I know I can do a better job. Besides, it's quite rewarding when I can actually teach someone how to do something.
Reminds me of the time I spoke with some moron tech support rep at Cox Cable Internet. The guy wanted me to type in "help" in the address bar of my browser. I asked him what he expected to happen. He said it should take me to the ISP's help section. I asked him "Do you know what a resolver is?" He said "huh?" I said "Transfer me to second level, you're out of your league."
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
My experience with Dell was this:
1. 10 minutes on the phone to determine laptop motherboard is dead, so I ship my laptop in (they pay for it)
2. 2 days later I get it back, but this time it is in even worse shape. Another 10 minutes on the phone and I mail it in again.
3. 2 days later I get it back again, seems to work fine, until I realize that it will no longer charge the battery.
4. Finally I gave in and upgraded to on-site service, and my computer was fixed and working in another two days.
Needless to say I was not too happy that with three trips to their depot they still couldn't properly fix my problem. It seems like their techs should have at least tried turning on my computer before shipping it back. I buy Dells all the time at work, but I think when it comes time to replace my personal computer I will either go somewhere else or build my own (not a laptop obviously).
A tiny line at the bottom that requires you to click "Read More" and find it.
Most reputable places would update the headline or the beginning of the summary at the least. They're basically accusing Dell of something we hate that they in fact don't do.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
Had someone in the UK that bought a laptop from Dell. It came with MS Works which she wanted to use for day to day paperwork while visiting clients. Anyhow, first problem was that there was no way to set the deafult page size to A4 or anything other than US Letter for that matter.
She calls Dell and asks them. The first thing they ask is "have you installed any software on it"? Not seeing a contractual getout coming she told them she'd installed her Mortgage Broking software (for that is her job) only to be told that as she's put software on that didn't come from them it would cost her 15 an answer.
Now I can see that they don't want to answer questions along the lines of "I put this obscure bit of freeware on and now it won't start" but for christ's sake, bundling a package that requires regedit to set the page size to the correct one for her country and then charging her to sort it out is shitwit behaviour of the worst order.
After this I won't use the likes of Dell, Gateway, etc., and go for small/medium independant suppliers or build it myself as you can at least get support from the same person who tends to remember you.
Hmmmmmm..... Deep fried and look like Squirrel.
This is one of the really great things about being a computer geek that puts us up there with auto mechanics, plumbers, lawyers, and anyone else with a skill the average Joe needs but doesn't want to pay full price for. I get a lot of home-cooked meals, free beer from the storeowner down the street, extra hardware from people who ask me to replace an older part with a newer one (I replaced a DVD-ROM recently with a DVD bruner, and took home the DVD-ROM), and inherit a lot of older computers when their owners buy a new one :-).
"Can't you see that everyone is buying station wagons?"
I've got ALL of 'em trained to fork it over when I come around and bail them out. Barter is my favorite, but cash will do just fine, thank you.
From my own (warped) perspective, this is good news. Crapware removal is my bread and butter. It's excellent from a 'repeat business' point of view, also. I clean their machine, give 'em a stern lecture, and then find myself coming back to repeat the process. Nice to see that Dell has taken such a kindly interest in my financial well-being.
Is it fascism yet?
I will bet you my next five paychecks that this is not official Dell policy. Rather, this is an employee using a vague but believable pseudo-policy to end customer calls as quickly as he can, thereby improving the statistics that are used to evaluate him
For those who have never worked in a call center, there is one core stat used to evaluate workers: call volume. The more calls you answer, the more they pay you. The phone switches allow this stat to be measured easily. There is the expectation that customers will be satisfied, policies will be followed, etc. but it's practically impossible to measure or verify this.
Your conclusion still follows - if you can buy locally from someone who can support you, do so. It doesn't matter if you're being screwed by a technician (who disobeys policy) or by his corporate masters (who implement poor policy) - you're still screwed if you buy nationally.