Slashdot Mirror
IronPort Arms Both Sides In Spam War
securitas writes "We all know about IronPort's recent acquisition of SpamCop. What may not be common knowledge is that IronPort's Senderbase has 'the reputation as the fastest way to send millions of junk e-mail messages' and is popular with spam factories. Founded by two former Microsoft executives - Hotmail's Scott Weiss and ListBot founder Scott Banister - IronPort claims its customers are not spammers but legitimate marketers. Critics say that this is a clear conflict of interest. Playing spam from both sides might be likened to a pharmaceutical company enabling the spread of a disease in order to sell the cure. SpamCop founder Julian Haight - who had to sell the company in order to remain solvent - is quoted as saying of IronPort's anti-spam measures: "I am not sure all its standards are tough enough." The story was originally reported by the New York Times' Saul Hansell. Abbreviated mirror at IHT."
in business ethics while employed at Microsoft, I am incapable of believing that the owners of Ironport would ever do anything to hurt the general public simply to make an obscene profit.
Yes, I know a lot of what I write makes it sound like my tinfoil hat is loose but hear me out:
IronPort buys SpamCop
Worms hammer anti-spam sites
Because IronPort is now "spammer friendly", SpamCop doesn't suffer these DDoS attacks.
SpamCop's for-fee competition and free lists are ran off the net by IronPort supporters.
Not suprisingly, IronPort's products don't block mail from their customers.
IronPort and it's spammer customers profit.
Trolling is a art,
Despicable is right.
IMHO, spam is spam whether it's from a legitimate marketer or not - unless I have indicated that I wish to receive information (special offers, order status, terms of service updates) from the sender, whether they're selling books, parts, or e-transaction services.
I also concede that there is a minor loophole, inasmuch as companies with whom I hold an account (e.g. eBay UK, PayPal, Amazon.co.uk) should be free to send certain important mails relating to things like my membership status, or any important and major changes to their ToS.
However, since they're not the sort of companies I'd expect to go through spam houses, I'd understand that if they did contact me without my consent, they'd have a pretty darn good reason.
How long til some IronPort customer dies from popping bootleg Viagra, or is fleeced out of his savings by a bunch of Nigerians pulling a 419? Some of those people will be clueless, and will think that because it's come through the spam filter, it must be legitimate...
Jailarity ensu-- no, wait, that would be for a Fark story :-P
"It is dark. You are likely to be eaten by a grue." -- Zork
You mean kind of like Verizon selling my phone number to telemarketers, and then trying to sell me anti-telemarketing services for a premium price?
When it's something like file sharing, everybody's keen to jump on the "don't blame the technology" bandwagon. After all, file sharing can be used legitimately, right?
How is this any different? There are legitimate needs to send bulk mail aren't there? It's not only used by spammers is it?
The only difference I can see is that spam is something techies collectively hate, and copyright is something a lot of people are ambivelant about. Let's be fair and apply the same standards! Arguments don't stand or fall based upon whether we like the people involved.
Hi, this is Julian, the long-time owner of SpamCop.net. I must say I was a bit dissapointed in the NYT coverage of this.
;)
7 1.207.query.bondedsender.org has address 127.0.0.10l .spamcop.net has address 127.0.0.2
.. and here I was coming to slashdot to read the news and relax. Little did I know I'd be spending the next half hour writing this rebuttal ..
First of all, I was not *forced* to sell SpamCop to remain solvent. I am proud of the fact that I have been profitable since 1999. If anything, this deal makes SpamCop a charity case within Ironport. I still get paid of course
The NYT article quotes me as saying (referring back to my dead-tree version): "After a while, I found that this had become a job, and I had to find a way to make money from it". That quote was taken out of context - I was referring to my 1999 decision to take SpamCop commercial, not my 2003 decision to sell the *profitable* company to ironport.
It is true that the akamai bill is not cheap. But I think I would have survived the same way I have always done without selling the business. And that leads to my next point - I'm not cashing out. I will be with the company for the forseeable future, doing what I have always done - fighting spam! I sold it to ironport because I felt they would support my goals. They offered me a nice lump of cash, help with the non-spam-fighting part of the job (sysadmin, administrivia, lawyering, DDoS protection, etc.) and most important, a credible promise to let me keep it on-track.
The very fact that I am here talking about this, and expressing my doubts about bonded sender to the NYT should indicate that I'm not just rolling over here.
I don't control the bonded sender program and likewise the people who control it won't be calling the shots where SpamCop is concerned.
Oh, and BTW, I know ironport boxes are good for spamming. They're also good for sending (and also receiving) tons of legitimate mail. Noone with ironport has ever claimed that "our customers aren't spammers". Some might claim our *bonded sender members* aren't spammers, but that's a whole other kettle of fish.
Are we arming both sides? Sure! But as with all arms dealers, the real point is that we make the best weapons on the market! Don't like spam from ironport customers? Use the spamcop blacklist! If this were really some big conspiracy, would spamazon's IP be in both the spamcop blacklist and the ironport whitelist?
$ host 207.171.188.101
101.188.171.207.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer mm-outgoing-101.amazon.com.
$ host 101.188.171.207.query.bondedsender.org
101.188.1
$ host 101.188.171.207.bl.spamcop.net
101.188.171.207.b
(Note, the blacklist changes quickly over time, it was listed when I wrote this)
-=Julian "10 hot comments" Haight=-