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Plow Operators Object to GPS Tracking System

An anonymous reader writes "The Boston Globe is reporting on a dispute between private plowing contractors and the state highway department. The state has mandated all trucks to equip with GPS enabled cellphones for tracking. The drivers have refused, just in time for a big winter storm. The latest seems to be that they have reached a compromise (no details yet), but the dispute highlights the public safety versus employee privacy issue. Presumably plowing could be more efficient and possibly save lives during storms if the trucks could be tracked.. a good thing. Or is this simply a step closer to an Orwellian society, where the State knows where we all are?" This earlier story does a much better job of detailing their grievances - apparently it's about money as much as anything, with the GPS tracking system being only a secondary issue.

13 of 293 comments (clear)

  1. On GPS and Privacy by mandalayx · · Score: 3, Informative

    There was a recent NPR story on the recent rise of GPS usage amongst company cars. Interesting stuff, and they mention a little about unions' concern as well.

  2. About the Money by raisinets · · Score: 1, Informative

    My Dad is one of the private contractors, and he tells me the problem is that most plowboys think GPS costs thousands of dollars. I keep telling him you can get decent GPS equipment for under a grand these days. J

  3. Re:I don't get it by phalse+phace · · Score: 5, Informative
    Are you sure you read the article because it clearly answers the questions you've just asked.

    1) why the highway department wants them to have GPS

    They want them to carry the GPS systems so they can "track their movements and record the work that they should be paid for" since they're paid "between $42 and $300 an hour."

    2) why the contractors don't want to have it.

    They don't want to carry them because of "the difficulty of operating the GPS phones while driving," and because if contractors don't "punch a code into the GPS phones and that if it is not done properly, the contractor won't get paid."

    I, however, think the contractors don't want the GPS units because they'll no longer be able to slack off and milk the state. I mean, what do they have to hide. They are being paid by the state to do a job. Therefore, the state should have the right to track them and make sure they're doing exactly what they're being paid to do.

  4. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2, Informative

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  5. Re:sounds like a snow job by tacocat · · Score: 4, Informative

    This isn't an orwellian society move. I think it's actually rather reasonable when you consider everything that they have here.

    • These GPS requirement apply to independent contractors and not to State Empoloyees.
    • GPS tracking will only be required while the contractor is actively working on a contracted obligation.
    • There is a mis-statement in the story that operating GPS telephones is going to be complicated and dangerous. If the phones are configured correctly then can provide GPS data on a Pull basis and not a Push. That is, the base operators can obtain your GPS without your intervention. This is what the GPS-911 feature is all about.
    • It's reasonable that the Employer have some means of validating that the work they are paying for is indeed getting performed. Is there a more cost effective means that you can think of?

    I've lived in a variety of areas where they have contractors for snow removal. In general it's not a very good arrangement in terms of getting the work done. And there is more than enough opportunity for the contractor to give the snow job to the State, City, County that is paying for it.

  6. Re:What privacy concerns? by Ashe+Tyrael · · Score: 2, Informative

    You sound like the stupid British.

    "If you have nothing to hide why should you mind constantly being monitored by big brother?"

    I wonder what you've been reading. Nobody I know thinks that way, unless they are part of Big Brother, as it were.
    Our mistrust of this kind of thing is probably about as big as yours. We just dont have as much recourse (no constitution, etc.)

    The whole speedcameras debate shows what happens when peopel get up in arms about big brother.

    --
    "How fine you look when dressed in rage."
  7. Re:sounds like a snow job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    True, except that they are also using the phones for tracking payment, which the snow-plow drivers say has not been tested or proven reliable.

  8. RTFA? by blankmange · · Score: 4, Informative
    According to the article, the drivers' were concerned about the accounting accuracy.

    But contractors had balked, saying the phones were not proven reliable as an accounting system used for payment.

    Nothing is mentioned about an invasion of privacy or an Orwellian allusion. Only us paranoid geeks brought this out....
    --
    ...we are from the government - we are here to help...
  9. It's not what you think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    They're having them get GPS-equipped cellular phones and they want them to keep these phones 'on' while they are 'working for the state plowing roads'.

    Before the availability of the GPS-equipped phones the State had to accept their logs of how much time they spent plowing roads with no other assurance than their word.

  10. Re:What privacy concerns? by cailloux · · Score: 4, Informative

    Indeed, this issue is occuring with greater frequency today than it was 5 years ago. My company does mobile data and part of the data we send is GPS location information. Much of the union and non-union labor (this isn't just an AFL/CIO issue) who drive a vehicle with a GPS installed don't like the idea. Until they find out why they have it.

    A police department had GPSs installed in their vehicles as part of their computer dispatching system and the cops always grumbled that the chief could see where they were and that it wasn't right. Then one of the officers got shot on the job. He hit his panic button, the dispatcher (and every other cop on the city!) knew exactly where he was within 2 seconds. They got the bad guy (life in jail, what fun) and saved the one cop's life. Did they apso-positivly love GPS after that? Yeah, a lot.

    And I can tell you similiar stories from the commercial sector, too. The point is that anyone will think it's intrusive until they see why there is a direct benefit to themselves as part of this system.

    Consider this -- there are members of the Amateur Radio community that get excited by the prospect of sharing their position information on the internet. They can see a benefit.

    Once you get beyond the "you're trying to screw me over" arguement, things get better and you just live with it. (As an aside, most union contracts specify that the company will dictate what equipment the employee will use, so there's not much to grieve about when you're driving a truck with a GPS in it).

  11. What about those Nextel cell phones ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    A few days ago interviews on Boston television
    stations had the independent contractors saying
    that using a cellphone to provide GPS data while
    plowing snow would be hazardous to traffic safety.

    They cited a Massachusetts state police study that
    showed how dangerous cellphones were while driving.

    I was under the impression the Nextel phones used
    for this project would be rigged to respond to a
    coordinates request without operator involvement.
    I know at least one Nextel phone is programmable
    in Java by ordinary mortals.

    Of course using a cellphone for this is a way for
    the Commonwealth of Massachusetts to get off cheap,
    since for some time GPS transponders have been on
    the market for long-distance trucks.

  12. Nextel network issue by trboyden · · Score: 2, Informative

    The biggest and reasonable complaint I've heard is that the system they are using is by Nextel who has poor coverage in Massachusetts. This combined with the fact that the contractors don't get paid if they can't be tracked (ie: if they go through a dead zone, which there are many) makes for a valid reason for complaint.

  13. Re:Pilots need privacy too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    There should be a way for them to "opt-out". A "stealth mode" button will be nice. Pilots do not need the big-brother constantly watching them.

    There is such a switch in the cockpit of every aircraft. If you turn your transponder off, it's quite a bit harder to track an aircraft on radar.

    If you do this intentionally in controlled airspace, though, this will really piss of the ATC folks and the FAA. Your pilot certificate would probably be suspended.

    Of course, transponders do break ocasionally during a flight, and when that happens, pilots and controllers make due without it. The pilot doesn't get in trouble if they did their job (including the preflight safety checks) correctly.

    As an aside for all of you non-pilots out there, a large part of flight training is learning how to handle emergencies like an electrical failure. When you learn to fly a multiengine aircraft, you have to learn how to fly it with one or more of the engines not running. Flying an airplane isn't very difficult (it requires about the same level of attention as driving a car in the snow) -- when everything's working.