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Are Videophones Ready for Prime Time?

Amigan asks: "Looking for a gift for my parents who live 1500+ miles away, I came across the Vialta Beamer TV. This device, with its claimed ease of use, would be helpful for my parents to see my son via the phone, but I'm wondering if the glowing WSJ review or Tech TV review are for real. Is 4-15 fps viable for conversation?"

18 of 49 comments (clear)

  1. What's the point? by floamy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Why not just buy a webcam and do it online? With two good connections you're probably looking at a bettter framerate.

    1. Re:What's the point? by cabingirl · · Score: 2, Interesting
      My mom (no technophile) was able to use the webcam that came with her computer to have a video call with my brother last Xmas - no broadband involved. Sure, video quality was not the greatest, but she was really happy with how it turned out.

      However, she already had the hardware, and was willing to try setting it up.

      My dad, on the other hand, won't touch a computer. If the parents in question are like him, then a videophone is probably a better option.

      --
      I could kill you, sure, but I could only make you cry with these words
  2. 30fps would probably be better by sakusha · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I read an interesting report (SF Chron I think) that said deaf users discovered that Apple's iChat has a sufficiently high frame rate and resolution to use sign language over video, and no other products had a high enough frame rate to do the job adequately. But then, AFAIK iChat and the iSight does 30fps. I suspect this doesn't directly apply to you, but I though you might find it interesting as some sort of benchmark.

  3. Polycom ViaVideo II by Compuser · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It is ~30 fps on LAN and it is useable, as in voice and video are coherent, picture is abit shaky but not painful. You can't move fast though
    or else it'll be a blur.
    However we use it to talk coast-to-coast. On
    university-to-university network you get ~20 fps
    and the quality degradation is notable. Now you
    get a picture that is a bit retarded and when
    someone moves (even medium speed) it results in
    unhappiness.
    Put the sucker on cable modem and you get 10 fps.
    Now it is virtually unusable in the sense that you
    are not getting much more than voice and what you
    do get is painfully choppy and often artefacted.
    IMHO, anything below 15 fps is not even worth
    consideration.

  4. iChat by Stigmata669 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I can't say i know anything about the product you list, but I have used Apple's iChat voice and video conferencing over broadband internet(east coast to west coast) and it works very well. The audio is very clean and well synched, and the video looks pretty good too. Mac only of course so if you have a speedy inexpensive computer rather than my pos ibook you're out of luck (or are very lucky depending on how you spin it).

    --
    Yawn.
  5. Add me to the iChat chorus by tm2b · · Score: 2, Informative

    I've used iChat with an iSight a bit over a cable modem to somebody at a university. It's worked pretty well. That's 30 fps.

    You do, of course, need a Mac though.

    [Additional agreement is not redundant, damn it!]

    --
    "It is our blasphemy which has made us great, and will sustain us, and which the gods secretly admire in us." - Zelazny
  6. video is a hassle by oskillator · · Score: 4, Funny

    Personally, I like being able to answer the phone without shaving, getting dressed, and combing my hair first.

    1. Re:video is a hassle by pyrote · · Score: 5, Funny

      considering a good 90% of slashdotters goto work under those conditions, I doubt this is a concern :)

      --
      THE WORLD IS GOING TO END!!!! eventually.
    2. Re:video is a hassle by kachuik · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Actually a good point.

      We tried this a work a while back and it turns out that most people will not turn it on.
      They don't want to see or be seen. It also got rid of the travel, meaning free lunch & time away from your desk.

      It might be wise to try and find out if would actually be used before plunking down the cash.

  7. Is 4-15 fps viable? by Babbster · · Score: 3, Interesting
    It depends on what you and your family are looking for. If it's just a case of your mom wanting to see your face while you're talking, then it's probably fine (just don't move around too much). If you actually want to have a reasonably smooth conversation more closely approximating face-to-face contact, I think a consistent frame rate of 20-25 would be the bare minimum.

    For a quick, kind of dirty solution the Beamer product looks to be adequate but, again, it's not going to feel like face to face.

    If you're looking for something with higher quality, there are standalone units that work over IP. The obvious advantage is broadband speed allowing much nicer frame rates (as several people have described with the Mac iChat system) and they don't require a PC (though some ISPs require PCs to set up broadband service). The disadvantages are setup (might be tough to talk a non-techie through it) and broadband cost (of course, this is cancelled out with frequent use because of long-distance savings).

    D-Link has two TV-connecting IP videophone models, both wireless and wireful (the latter goes for $149.95 after $50 mail-in rebate at Amazon).

  8. In Belgium by RiverTonic · · Score: 2, Interesting

    FYI: The biggest telecomoperator from Belgium recently started to make publicity for this system.
    It looks to be very easy in use.

    --
    This is RiverTonic's sig.
  9. Wireless Video Phones by orulz · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In Japan, DoCoMo offers video phone service over their 3G wireless network. I don't have DoCoMo myself (I use AU, I chose cost over features) but last night I actually had a chance to try out the videophone on a friend's mobile. Although the screen was small, the framerate seemed decent. In my opinion, the worst part was the sound, since you can't hold the earpiece up to your face while you're talking on the videophone, the phone relied on its external speakerphone mode, which definitely made the audio much less clear. However, if you hold the phone in one place and don't move around too much, mouth movements are transmitted quite clearly, with surprislingly little lag.

    That aside, and perhaps most importantly, it really helped my brain to make the connection that I was actually talking to another person. I suppose that there must be a hard-wired light in the human brain that turns on when you actually see someone's face while you're talking to them. It's a bit hard to describe, but after trying it out, it's not difficult for me to believe that this is the future.

  10. 14 fps. by wowbagger · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Consider this:

    Movies are 24 FPS.

    TV is 30 FPS (NTSC) or 25 FPS (PAL). (frames per second, not fields per second).

    The "killer app" for video phones is not business conferencing - it is "Look at Grandma! Wave to Grandma!".

    And we USED to use postcards (1 frame per WEEK) for that.

  11. 15 fps adequate for some things by michael_cain · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Several years ago I helped run some informal studies of people using small-frame video over IP for real-time communications. IIRC, some of the useful things that we learned were:

    • People who watch 15 fps video on a regular basis rate it higher than people who hardly ever watch low-frame-rate video. 15 fps is clearly not as smooth as 24 or 30 fps, but people do get used to it.

    • At 15 fps, body language and hand gestures are easily understood. For desktop conferencing, people tended to use the video as a body-language signaling channel -- I'm bored, I'm excited, I need to say something now.

    • At 15 fps, you can tell whether the audio and video are properly synced by watching people's mouths -- at 10-12 fps the motion is too jerky to tell.

    • At 15 fps, out-of-sync audio and video will drive you crazy -- many people have to look away so they can't see the video in order to continue the conversation.

    • A black-and-white option can be useful. A black-and-white frame typically requires only about half as many bits as a color frame, so you can trade off color for fps. Some people preferred black-and-white at higher frame rates, some people preferred color at lower rates.
    1. Re:15 fps adequate for some things by michael_cain · · Score: 2, Interesting
      about the hand gestures being understood at 15 fps, does that include motion blur?

      If I understand the question correctly, the answer is no. If someone waves their hand rapidly -- little Johnny to Grandma, for example -- at 15 fps Grandma will clearly see and understand the wave, but there's no visible blurring. I'm not sure what frame rate is needed to get visible blurring -- higher than we could generate with the hardware, software, and network arrangements we were testing at the time.

      It might be worth mentioning that some compression schemes introduce the possibility of having different nominal and effective frame rates. Depending on how motion is detected and how much motion is required to trigger recoding a portion of the frame, slowly-changing portions of the image may get updated at something less than the nominal frame rate. This can create some ugly artifacts.

  12. Frame rate needs to be 16 ... by foobsr · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... to give the impression of continuous movement due to the idiosyncrasies of human perception.

    Thats why the old fashioned 8mm movies were (usually) shot at that speed.

    CC.

    --
    TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
  13. Re:30FPS are you kidding!!!!! by unitron · · Score: 2, Informative
    "30fps might be a minimum but it'll lookbad"

    Regular ol' television (NTSC) is only 30 frames per second so if they get to see the grandkid in real time at the same quality they'd get if they were watching him\her on VHS it would probably be quite acceptable.

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  14. Closed vs open standards by JUSTONEMORELATTE · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Well, you could buy a pre-packaged setup like the Beamer, which would let you video-conf with any other Beamer users.
    Or you could use a webcam and open standards, and be able to chat with any other PC/Mac users with a webcam

    Reminds me of the first Soviet company to get a FAX machine. They were quite proud of themselves, until they realized they didn't have anyone else to call.

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