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The Robots are Coming

Posted by michael on from the metal-man dept.

An anonymous reader writes "LinuxDevices.com's new 'Linux-powered Robots Quick Reference Guide' offers an interesting glimpse into of some Linux-powered robots currently available or near production, and provides an extensive reading list with further information on Linux in robotics. According to a fascinating article at TechNewsWorld, Linux is poised to play a centrol role in an emerging industry that many expect to overtake the PC industry in size: robotics. Japan is currently driving robot innovation, according to the article, impelled by a looming labor shortage. Consumer robots like the Sony Aibo and Honda Asimo make headlines, but ubiquitous, cheap, and practical utility robots are what most Japanese robot makers are focused on, and 'carmaker Honda believes that robots will become its most important business,' according to the TechNewsWorld article. Watch out -- the Linux-powered robots are on the march!"

28 of 239 comments (clear)

  1. yeesh... by wrinkledshirt · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Japan is currently driving robot innovation, according to the article, impelled by a looming labor shortage.

    Ugh. I get as excited about robots and Linux as much as anybody, but the semi-marxist in me gets a little freaked out by things like this.

    How long before innovation that can take the role of a worker in a labor-shortage environment ends up being used to replace real people in a labor-glutted environment?

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    Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...

    1. Re:yeesh... by OtakuHawk · · Score: 3, Insightful

      but you have to remember, there will always be people needed to FIX the robots when they break down. and OTHER robots capable of doing this job won't be around for a long time.

    2. Re:yeesh... by JanneM · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A good question.

      But, don't forget that the "robotics revolution" is really a pretty long-term thing, and long-term, demographics show that population - especially the work-age population - is or will be trending downwards in more and more countries. For most industrialized countries, "labour glut" is simply not happening thirty to fifty years down the line.

      What is happening (and has really been happening for a long time already) is that automation tends to remove the jobs that are the most brainless, dangerous or repetitive, at the same time creating new (but fewer) jobs "higher up" in the organization - as somebody already said, you need people to design, deploy and manage the automation systems. It does mean that education and training is becoming steadily more important, however. We are already long gone fron the days when someone could attend just grammar school, then start a job and learn in place. Twenty or thirty years down the line, having a high school diploma only will likely be similarily useless.

      --
      Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
    3. Re:yeesh... by Dylancable · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Total replacement will never happen. Companies make money by mass producing products to the public, If the public has no work they have no money to buy these products that keep these people rich.

    4. Re:yeesh... by Imperator · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Oh, but I'd love to live in a world where robots did all the work. Where I showed up to work one day a week to code the robots a bit, and spent the rest of my time in leisure pursuits. The only problem is that won't happen. We constantly want more. If we were happy with our current standard of living we could steadily reduce the workweek for decades to come. But instead Americans are working ever longer and harder.

      No, right now we have solved the problem of scarcity at a level Marx never dreamed of. If we wanted to, we could eliminate (not just reduce) poverty, homelessness, and hunger in America. It would take a massive shift in values, but it would not be technically or economically difficult. If we aren't doing these things now, why should we think that robotics (or any other technological improvements) will change that? No, we'll just keep working our asses off so we can get shiny new cell phones every six months.

      But all that will probably be denounced as socialism by some knee-jerk American. As far as I'm concerned, the advanced societies of this century are the ones being built in Western Europe. They are not perfect, but they are trying new things and consciously trying to leverage the economic and political successes of the last 55 years into better societies. America is falling behind, and that worries me.

      --

      Gates' Law: Every 18 months, the speed of software halves.
    5. Re:yeesh... by Simonetta · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Japan's 'impending labor shortage' is nothing more than plain old-fashioned bushito bullshit. The world's population is exploding, which means that there is no labor shortage in real terms. When they say 'impending labor shortage' the Japanese mean not enough of 'our people' to do all the work that needs to be done.

      This is an indicator of the overwhelming but subliminal racism that permeates Asian culture. It never occurs to the Japanese that there actually could real decent intelligent civilized human beings outside of Japan that could be encouraged to move to Japan, do the work, and eventually become Japanese citizens and even, over time, actually even become Japanese.

      Contrast that frame of mind with the Americans. The Americans talk endlessly about the levels of racism, both overt and subliminal, between the various groups of people who move there and live there. But after a few generations of being part of American culture, everybody is accepted as part of the 'salad bowl' of American society.

      This could never happen in Japan. There are families of Korean background who have lived in Japan since the Tokugawa era (1600's) and they are still marched down to the local police station every year to be registered as 'gaijin' (foreigners). The Japanese even practice racism against their own people. They created a social sub-class called 'buraku-min' which get treated a second-class citizens even though there is no disconcernable difference between these people and the mainstream.

      It's all just accepted as the way that things are, have always been, and should always be. But do they actually have a real labor shortage in a world that doubles in population every twenty years?

      No way.

    6. Re:yeesh... by BinxBolling · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Not that it's particularly important as the Earth is over-crowded anyway, but you do realize that if you replace 25 workers with 25 robots, that those 25 robots will likely require perhaps just 1 maintenance person, right ?

      And where did those 25 robots come from? Did they just spring, fully-formed, from the maintenance person's head? Or were they maybe manufactured by some other company that employs tens of thousands of people?

      (Yeah, yeah, I know that not all of those 10s of thousands of people are directly traceable to the 25 robots, but my point is that your accounting is far from complete.)

  2. Who do you think.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Who do you think is developing these robots? I'll tell you. People that know what they're doing. If they are choosing linux, obviously there is some reason they are doing so. That is because, the kernel is extremely stable.

    Now, they aren't installing KDE or X on the robot, goodness me. I think you're making the mistake of lumping linux all together, when they are really talking about the linux kernel here.

  3. Would you like fries with that? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
    If robots will be able to do most the menial jobs in the future, how are all the displaced human laborers going to feed themselves if society doesn't change its selfish views on "liberal" social welfare?

    If the gap between the robot-owning haves and the hungry have-nots grows too large then those rich gated communities are going to have a hell of a time keeping angry mobs out. A little socialism is a good thing.

  4. Perhaps... by Azureflare · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Perhaps our social labor structure needs some redesigning? Perhaps not everyone needs to work nearly as hard as we are?

    I think the developments in robotics are going to force us to seriously reconsider our philosophy about life. If robots can do what we do now, better, what are we here for?

    Personally, I'll welcome the day when robots can do all our work for us, and I can go and relax on the beach all day long.

    1. Re:Perhaps... by wrinkledshirt · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Personally, I'll welcome the day when robots can do all our work for us, and I can go and relax on the beach all day long.

      But how are you going to be able to purchase the necessary commodities of life? Food/shelter/clothing and all that?

      It's not like the people who have these robots are going to donate the fruits of their labour for free.

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      Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...

    2. Re:Perhaps... by Azureflare · · Score: 5, Insightful
      True... That would be really horrible if the corporations used the robots for all the work and then charged for the fruits of those labors. If those corporations in charge of the use of the robots decide to do such a thing (which is likely, given the fact that they want profits more than anything), there are going to be a lot of poor in the world...

      I think now is a time when ethics and morals are really, really important in our capitalistic society. Without them, we are at the mercy of those who can develop such systems.

    3. Re:Perhaps... by JanneM · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But the companies will be paying taxes on their income, right? As will the people that do have a job (and those jobs are likely very highly paid; if they didn't need very qualified people for them, they would have automated as well, right?). So the government will still have quite a lot of income.

      What would be needed is a social coverage system that does make allowances for having perhaps 50%-80% unemployment; in essence, "unemployment" would need to cease to be an abberration at all, and become the norm. In effect, you'd have everybody - having work or not - on a basic income (that may be purely monetary, or in a hybrid form) that gives you a basic but decent standard of living.

      Now, I'm sure free-market people are busting a vein right now, but consider the alternative: having more than half the population with no money, no work, and no prospects of ever getting either? Can you spell "riots", "looting", "crime wave" and "insurgency"? I knew you could!

      This is all of course contingent on the assumption of the parent posters that new work opportunities aren't opening up in sufficient numbers.

      Also, there is a world of options in between our current 40h+ work week and "relax on the beach all day long". You have quite different amount of work being done in different parts of the world already; in Europe, we generally work quite a bit less than in the US for instance; valuing the extra hours of off time more than the added income. You could imagine a future where the normal work week could be an average of 10 hours or so (maybe as 20 hours per week for half the year).

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      Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
    4. Re:Perhaps... by quandrum · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Except, if no one has any capital because their jobs have been replaced by robots, who will purchase the fruits of the robots labour?

      New forms of redistribution will emerge. The free market demands it. Perhaps more people will find work in creative endeavors.

    5. Re:Perhaps... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      That would be really horrible if the corporations used the robots for all the work and then charged for the fruits of those labors

      Um, that's just what they do now. (except they pay the robots $5 day. And by robots I mean 12 year old mylasian children. And by $5 a day, I mean $0.87 a day.)

      I think now is a time when ethics and morals are really, really important in our capitalistic society

      And has been for quite sometime, the tech to do it by robot does not make it more important.

    6. Re:Perhaps... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      How does the free market demand "redistribution"?

      Why can't the people who own the robots and the land just live happily and say fuck you to the rest of the people? You know like we do to Africa right now?

      Except the whole world will be Africa...

      If your robots can produce everything you can just keep it or exchange it with other robot producing people. There can be a real great synnergy between big land owners and robot owners. What do they need the masses for?

      Africa really isn't so bad as long as you don't get your arms hacked off by child soldiers, or starve to death, or die of AIDS...Hmmm, well at least there is some nice wildlife around, tigers and lions and whatnot... try to stay positive!

    7. Re:Perhaps... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      ah but thats the thing wit capitalism it cant happen. lets say all the companies replaces all thier work pwer with robots and try to sell stuff
      to make money. well who would buy the things that they are trying to sell when 90% of the population is unemployd. sure there would be some rich fellas but they would have more mony than they could spend there wouldnt be a market.

    8. Re:Perhaps... by Fat+Cow · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If everyone owned stock in the corporations producing the goods, they would make money off the robotic advances too.

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      stay frosty and alert
    9. Re:Perhaps... by canajin56 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Lets just hope they realize that robots don't buy the products.

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      ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI
    10. Re:Perhaps... by sillybilly · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "For more than five years I maintained myself thus solely by the labour of my hands, and I found, that by working about six weeks in a year, I could meet all the expenses of living." - Henry David Thoreau You could already redesign the social labor structure, but when robots take over the simple work, the issue will be more looming. These days everyone is ushered into a hampsterwheel of 'jobs' and 'debt,' just so you never get bored and you always have something to keep you busy, something to strive for. Problem is that if you get everything you need too easily, then you just sit back and become bored, and people, especially males, when they are bored they end up going to war. Just watch the native american tribes after they obtained the horse, and suddenly, their greatest enemy, distance, was conquered. Now they had plenty food, more than they ever need, but what do these idiots do? Go run for glory, heroic death. In Egypt and during the Inca heydays food surplus resulted in humongous oppression too. Yes, some day 5% of the population will work in growing food, 5% in providing all the material needs, 5% designing robots for the two before, and the rest, well the rest can sit on their asses, like couch potatoes, or root for football teams, or battle it out in quake. Not everybody is scientifically inclined, but under such conditions I'd hope that at least 50% of the population would choose scientific challenges for themselves, even if they are on the simpler level of amateur radio - not every scientific endeavour has to be on the forefront of technology. The biggest problem is: will people stay sane when they are totally free and bored, or will they start acting crazy?

  5. OT, but still... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Japan is currently driving robot innovation, according to the article, impelled by a looming labor shortage..."

    Excuse me?? Japan, with a labor shortage? This is the same Japan w/ the huge unemployment rate, runaway deflation, and enormous national deficit, right? Or, is this some other Japan I haven't heard about yet?

    Looming labor shortage, my ass - robotic workers can't form unions, don't need health insurance, don't go on strike, don't quit, don't disobey orders, yada yada yada.

    Corporate Japan's fascination with robotic workers has nothing to do with a 'looming labor shortage', and everything to do with eliminating the blue-collar worker to increase the white-collar's income.

    Bastards.

    1. Re:OT, but still... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
      eliminating the blue-collar worker to increase the white-collar's income.

      That needs to be repeated.

      robots are all about eliminating the blue-collar worker to increase the white-collar's income.

      REVOLUTION!!!!!!!! Humans first!

  6. when governments no longer need citizens... by LionKimbro · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There is a saying:

    "What happens when goverments no longer need citizens?"

    It applies just as much to the network of corporations as it does to the network of governments.

  7. Automatons will initially create economic chaos by Ars-Fartsica · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Your point is valid - mechanization and automation always create huge economic imbalances as workers are dislocated and the wage/consumption cycle breaks temporarily. ITs been happening since the cotton ginny.

    Yet you and I are not adversely affected by autoamtion of cotton production, so its clear that a flexible workforce can, over time, adapt. The key is education and a willingness to change. If you don't have those, you're screwed.

  8. Re:Processing power will determine usefullness by xtal · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Another 20 years.. it's always another 20 years. Have you seen Asimo? It's jaw-dropping how good he is. I think we're going to start to see humanoid robots deployed much, much sooner than that. People claimed it was impossible to do what Asimo is doing now.

    People are mistaken when they think the robot has to be smart, at least right away. Most of blue collar labour in the manufacturing sector revolves around humans are general-purpose movers and fitters of pieces. Some fixed machines can be used to speed this process, but much of the final work requires flexibility that you need a person for.

    If you have a robot that can duplicate all the motions of a human, then you can replace a very large percentage of manufacturing labour - and you have a generic platform to reprogram for specialty tasks. Just as a person can do two things on an assembly line, so can a robot. Robots don't need to stop, either.

    Honda isn't stupid, either - if you can mass produce cars, then you can certainly mass produce robots. One car is horrifically expensive. Make a million of them and the cost goes down by several orders of magnitude. The only real question will be if there is going to be a tremendous worker backlash - and with much work being done in countries where worker backlashes are put down with rifles, perhaps the North American worker will not have the chance.

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  9. Why *NOT* Linux? by MarkJensen · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Now, I am not talking that Linux has to be in control of the robot. In industrial robots, Windows is often just used as the 'front end' GUI for the operators and technicians. KUKA and ABB both use Windows for this. Why can they not use Linux instead? It is certainly a very capable OS for a GUI system that needs to communicate TCP/IP to something like VxWorks (on the robot control end).

    I think that the lure and attraction of a royalty-free OS would have had industrial manufacturers already on Linux. Corporate inertia is what is really driving the Windows GUI on industrial robots.

  10. Nothing new by jmv · · Score: 2, Insightful

    At the lab where I'm working, we've been using Linux robots (ActivMedia Pioneer 2) for years. Linux actually came pre-installed on them (the only option). We've even been developing a bunch of Linux tools for robots.

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    Opus: the Swiss army knife of audio codec
  11. Re:Linux-powered robots? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Your wit is extraordinary! Have you considered becoming a sitcom writer?