Slashdot Mirror


Australian Researchers Push Near-Broadband IP Over VHF

Curmudgeon Rick writes "A research group at the Australian National University is getting symmetrical 250K bps at 20km, using "empty" 7MHz-wide broadcast TV allocations in the 45MHz band. Story here, project homepage here. Aim is to put some bandwidth out beyond the reach of the wires, where users are few and far between."

31 of 211 comments (clear)

  1. Cool and all by mphase · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...but doesn't this just mean one lucky bastard in the boonies will be getting good speeds or 50 unlucky bastards getting crap speed?

    1. Re:Cool and all by tonyr60 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Building on our great pool of expertise developed from 802.11, I suspect that one bastard gets to communicate and 50 lucky bastards get to listen (or watch) in...

    2. Re:Cool and all by principio · · Score: 5, Funny

      and we may be looking at the birth of the largest collision domain in the known universe

  2. New slogan? by Silent+Bob+On+Couch · · Score: 5, Funny

    I wonder if this will be marketed in the US for rural areas. I can hear the slogan now...

    "VHF... Australian for Broadband."

    1. Re:New slogan? by yobbo · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well, it has the word "Australian" in it. You suckers will buy into anything with Australian in it.

    2. Re:New slogan? by Frymaster · · Score: 4, Funny
      Well, it has the word "Australian" in it. You suckers will buy into anything with Australian in it.

      witness the popularity of prisons in the united states.

      wait... was that flamebait?

  3. broadband ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    i allways thought broadband was at least 10mbit, this is 'only' as fast as 4 isdn lines, sure better than dialup but nowhere near broadband..

    1. Re:broadband ? by motivator_bob · · Score: 4, Informative

      Narrowband: less than 2Mbps (POTS, ISDN, etc)
      Broadband: greater than or = 2Mbps.

      Most DSL lines work at under 1Mbps (home users don't need more and it's damned expensive if telcos offer it at all), but in full flight, it can reach around 8Mbps, so it's technically broadband.

      One man's *near* broadband is another man's 2B+D.

    2. Re:broadband ? by Crypto+Gnome · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I believe than in Australia Telstra urged the government to defind broadband as "128Kbps and up" so that they (Telstra) could then claim that (whatever the exact statistic is) the vast majority of Australians have access to internet at broadband speeds.

      Something to do with Telstra being legally required to provide said "broadband" coverage, by a certain date, or be subject to fines/limitations on expansion into other markets/or something.

      No surprises here, just Yet Another Big Business redefining reality so that they can wipe their hands of their legally bound responsibilities and rape their customers for further profits.

      --
      Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
  4. Be nice by roninmagus · · Score: 4, Funny

    It'd be nice, but unfortunately my VCR does not support the Australian internet.

    ;-)

    That's coming from an ebayer embittered by NTSC purchases :)

  5. near-broadband? by slavitos · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Interesting term, "near-broadband".... If I am not mistaken, broadband is defined as a communications medium that can be divided into multiple segments that can be used for different purposes (e.g. voice, data, video, etc).

    Isn't "nearbroadband" almost the same concept as being "almost pregnant"?

  6. Could be a nice alternative.. by iantri · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This could be a nice alternative for those of us who still aren't able to get broadband (No DSL where I am and Rogers Cable never bothered to run cable to the last three houses. Guess where I am! GRR), without all the potential problems with broadband over power lines (signal leakage, interfering with ham radio).

    1. Re:Could be a nice alternative.. by zerocool^ · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This is my *one and only* problem with moving out into the country. My fiancee and I are casually looking at houses, expecting to possibly be buying next spring (house buying season). With interest rates what they are, and property values going up quickly where I live (my parents bought their house 1995 for $154k, now worth >$300k), we'd like to get a house of our own, but not on a zero-lot-line, no privacy, near all the people kind of land.

      The only problem is: Move into the sticks, no always on internet. This would be a godsend for me - I don't want high speeds, I don't do online gaming, and I don't download a bunch of stuff, but I do want it to be on *all* the time. I want to be able to sit at my desk and see who's online on IM, and to check my mail or look at the news.

      This would be *perfect*. Hope they can figure out the details in the next few years. In the mean time, I may be investigating satelite internet.

      ~Will

      --
      sig?
    2. Re:Could be a nice alternative.. by anethema · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If you have a some high land nearby...or a small tower, you could set something up with a friend to use some of his/her bandwidth via a laser or WiFi connection. I'm setting up a 2 person laser lan with a friend of mine, and hes 20 km away. I've got to bounce it back across one hill because i dont have line of sight. 10mbps. It's doable.

      You also dont usually have to be too far from town to get a nice country home. I rent a place on 2 acres of green grassy land, 3 gardens, etc, for 950 a month. Of course I'm in canada, and there is probly a lot more nice available real-estate up here, but still, I live like 30 seconds drive from town, and 10 minutes from down-town kelowna.

      --


      It's easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
  7. Wait a Minute by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Does Telestra know this? Surely they'll want to put a stop to any competitors of theirs.

  8. There's a problem by carambola5 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    where users are few and far between

    Sorry, but speaking from purely a capitalist's point of view, the keyword here is few. As cool as the technology is, it'll never take off.
    --
    IWARS.
    People, in general, disappoint me. Politicians even more so.
    1. Re:There's a problem by martinX · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's not entirely true.

      In the land Down Under, Telstra is the dominant telco, and it's currently 51% government owned. The current Liberal Party (think: nice Republicans)-National Party (think: farmers) coalition government really wants to flog off the rest. The problem is that Telstra provides many services to the underpopulated areas (aka "the Bush", who are generally represented by the National Party half of the Coalition) that really don't make much economic sense but make a lot of political sense. Also, it's sort of halfway decent that the outback farmers get at least a phone service. Anyway, every man and his dog knows that if Telstra gets fully privatised, *bang* there goes any semblance of service to the bush, since it is just not econmical.

      To that end, the government has brought in a Service Guarantee (including Universal Service Obligations) that says (amongst other things) Telstra must provide certain minimum standards to all subscribers, and if they don't they get smacked. The government hopes that after a few years we'll all see what a good corporate citizen Telstra is and give the Libs the OK to flog off the other 51% of Telstra.

      Now, one big complaint from the bush is that they get bugger all access to broadband. Even getting net access at all can be tricky for them. Satellite (if available) is very expensive. This would almost certainly not improve under a toally privatised Telstra. However, if Telstra could provide near-broadband to the bush without having to string up hundreds of miles of cable, things would again be looking promising for the privatisation thing to be on the agenda again.

      Speaking from a purely Australian voter/taxpayer POV, the keyphrase is the National Party might be the junior member of the coalition but they can wield a fair amount of power over the Libs when they want to.

      .
      --
      When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
  9. This story is wrong. by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 5, Informative
    The stuff about VHF following the curve of the atmosphere and bouncing off of the ionosphere isn't quite right. That's HF. The frequency in use for this experiment, 45 MHz, would bounce during sunspot maxima but you can't build a communications system with it if you need it to bounce. Also, the choice of frequency is strange - 45 MHz rather than microwave, where there would be much less of a problem. Do they mean to run a star topology rather than point-to-point? 7 MHz for 250 Kbps is not so great. You should get 28 250Kbps channels in there. Multipath would be the main problem.

    Mesh networking would be a better idea than all of this. More bandwidth, more parallelism, less power.

    It doesn't sound as if they are really ready to talk about frequency coordination with other users. I hope they don't go about asking for spectrum for anything but experimentation this early in their project.

    Bruce

    1. Re:This story is wrong. by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 3, Interesting
      You're talking about processing gain.

      If they were using direct-sequence spread spectrum, they could deal with multipath, too. Just don't be on the frequency when the echo arrives.

      Bruce

  10. Actual Link to Story at ANU by LuxuryYacht · · Score: 3, Informative

    ANU... go to bottom of page

    Conquering that 'last mile'

    Pioneering work by physicists and engineers at ANU to build a cheap, simple and robust wireless communication system may soon see regional Australia getting a workable connection to the Internet. The system is called BushLAN, and it's all about bridging that 'last mile'.

    Regional Australia has never had adequate access to the Internet. It's either not available, too expensive or unreliable. A major part of the problem is the 'last mile' of access. This 'last mile' is the connection between the central communications hub in a local town to individual residences and businesses. Unfortunately, the 'last mile' is usually much more than just a mile. In rural areas such as Cowra, for example, the last mile has been measured to be anywhere from three to 100 kilometres from the town centre. In more isolated areas it can be much greater.

    The cost of cabling to only a few customers over these distances is prohibitive and current wireless solutions aren't practical. Satellite connections are expensive and usually require a cable connection for a user to send information out (ie they receive downloads from a satellite but send information out via the telephone). There are ground-based wireless connections commercially available but these operate in microwave frequencies using directional antennas that require a clear line of sight to function. Given Australia's sparse population and frequently hilly terrain this would require a large number of repeater stations.

    Dr Gerard Borg is a plasma physicist at the Research School of Physical Sciences and Engineering. His work with radio transmission has convinced him that the last mile could be effectively bridged using the low-VHF radio spectrum. This part of the radio spectrum has much longer wavelengths than the microwave frequencies used by other wireless systems and this allows signals to be transmitted further without the need for expensive repeaters or satellites. What's more, it doesn't depend on line of sight as the signal has the ability to go around mountains and other large obstacles in the landscape. At the moment the low VHF radio spectrum is used to transmit TV signals but with the decommissioning of some analogue TV bands in 2008 (digital TV uses higher frequency radio) there's an opportunity to switch this unused spectrum over to data connections for regional Australia.

    BushLAN (Bush - Local Area Network), as the system is called, has the potential to provide remote users in regional Australia with a permanent, high-quality Internet connection (at more than 100 kb/sec) at an affordable price. However, to get BushLAN up and running, many technical and marketing aspects of this multi-faceted system have to be developed first. To achieve his goal, Dr Borg has enlisted the assistance of a wide range of students from the Faculty of Engineering and Information Technology who have taken on the various jobs associated with the system as part of their Honours, Masters or Doctoral projects.

    "The practical nature of BushLAN and its relevance to regional Australia really attracts the students," says Dr Borg. "Once they're involved, they become highly motivated about what we're trying to achieve. Quite often they finish the formal part of their work for their thesis, but then they stay on working on the project through the Christmas vacation."

    The next step for BushLAN is to set up local trials to test transmissions, and then work with interested Internet service providers to see how BushLAN can be integrated into existing information systems. The hope is that with BushLAN as part of the system, the 'final mile' will no longer be an unbeatable hurdle.

    Science Reporter is brought to you by the National Institute of Bioscience, the National Institute of Engineering and Information Sciences, the National Institute for the Environment, the National Institute of Health and Human Sciences and the National Institute of Physical Sciences. Written by David Salt.

    For more information on any of the stories presented here please visit http://ni.anu.edu.au/

    --
    Quidquid latine dictum sit altum viditur
  11. BB Speeds by Dylancable · · Score: 5, Informative

    In Australia the ACCC defines BroadBand as 200kps and over.

  12. Yeah... by mindstrm · · Score: 5, Interesting

    But the term "broadband" has come to mean "fast" in the common language. Thank the media for that.

    In the olden days, the highest speed things tended to be broadband, so the meaning just got twisted.

    I'd say, considering speeds and waht is noramlly known as broadband in the US... 250kbps qualifies as "near broadband"... people usually think 1mbps is broadband.

  13. Downtown areas. by jfisherwa · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As a frequency this low will generally pass through buildings and obstructions much more effectively, it's probably a more likely candidate for inner-city wireless broadband than 802.11 -- on a commercial level.

    If some ISP can obtain the correct licenses and find an existing 802.11 chipset with firmware-programmable frequency, they'd be the winners of all time.

  14. Re:US radio spectrum by Crypto+Gnome · · Score: 3, Informative

    er, that would be no.

    The channel-width is 7MHz, the frequency is around 45MHz.

    --
    Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
  15. There is a market by F'Nok · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think that the market is UNDER estimated for this than anything. with 20-40k coverage, it is fantastic for rural coverage. And for a country where the majority of the population are active online, this means for rural areas that are spread out over large areas, it is feasible. The expense to cable an area with 10,000 people over a 20km radius is very prohibitive. However, the market for internet of 10,000 people, where network expansion means grabbing a bit more spectrum and setting up another station, is relatively small. I think this is fantastic for our rural areas here in Australia, because FAR too many cannot even support decent dialup. Who makes long distance calls for a 56k connection? Or worse, an unstable one?

  16. Yes!!1 by riotstarter · · Score: 3, Funny

    Finally, Pr0n on the TV...oh wait...

  17. Re:Won't Work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    As a transmission engineer, you should already know that, in the US, that part of the spectrum (45MHz +/- 3.5MHz) is already allocated and HEAVILY used by all kinds of two-way land mobile radio systems. In fact, the band is sliced up so that even various Federal agencies (including the military) are using it. TV starts at 54MHz, and those frequencies (TV channels 2-59) will be used for HDTV.

    Go read 47CFR Part 2...

  18. Re:Question by ookabooka · · Score: 3, Informative

    Yes they do. I am a licensed amateur radio operator (with moorse code, a nifty skill to have, though now kinda useless lol). It is called packet radio. I myself haven't gotten into it, but it is a different protocol which you can tunnel others through (tcp/ip). Some are internet repeaters, basically hooking up their cable modem to their ham radio. Problem is, that only one person can transmit at a time, collisions aren't too common though.

    --
    If you are about to mod me down, keep in mind that this post was most likely sarcastic.
  19. Maybe Austrailia, but not here... by turtlexit · · Score: 4, Informative

    This might fly in Australia, but probably not in the US or other large nations. The radio spectrum is a limited resource and as such, a highly competitive one. Amateur radio operators (myself included) are constantly trying to defend our allocated bands here in the US against commercial entities who would like to have it for their own usage. I don't see a system that uses this much bandwidth being practical for US usage.

  20. Re:wow! by Frymaster · · Score: 3, Funny

    worse! now i'm getting someone's kazaa traffic on my braces!

  21. Spectrum, data rates, propagation by dogsend · · Score: 5, Informative
    Just to clarify some of the issues raised already...

    Analogue television channels in Australia are 7MHz wide. The channels of interest are between 45 and 75MHz. BushLAN is not necessarily tied to using a particular block of spectrum, or an entire television channel. BushLAN subdivides available spectrum into 300kHz channels. As always, there is a tradeoff between transmitter power, communications range, and the data rate.

    Using two 300kHz channels [for a symmetric full-duplex connection] low power, relatively short range links with a raw data rate of 115.2kbps have already been created.

    As to propagation. VHF achieves beyond line of sight range whereas microwave links are limited to LOS. Long distance propagation is largely due to diffraction over hill tops. Atmospheric attenuation is much smaller at VHF (wavelength is roughly 6 metres) than it is at microwave frequencies (wavelength: ~10cm). This allows greater reliability during adverse weather conditions.