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Sub-Zero Squirrels
DesertFalcon writes "There's a Wired article about squirrels in the Arctic whose body temperatures drop below freezing when they hibernate. Scientists have the goal of applying this to humans in the long run. Could this be the answer to problems with long-distance space travel?" We had a previous story on this.
Must be a different type of supercooling than I know about. Any disturbance would cause the supercooled liquid to freeze.
Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
We're talking about -3C, it's not that fantastic. Some fish already survive in waters colder than 0C, and Girl scouts already know about it
And if a space habitat can heat up to 270K, well I guess it can heat up to 288K. It's not that different compared to the one digit Kelvin temperature in space.
Hibernation is the real issue here.
It seems interesting to me that a large portion of the article is related to PETA's objections to the program. I've done research into PETA for a school project... At first, I was respectful of the institution's goals- ethical treatment, yaddayadda, cool stuff, right on!
But PETA's tactics and policies seem iffy at best... this website has spiffy links with quotes from PETA people...
I find this a pity. There should surely be some group out there which is concerned with animal rights but isn't afflicted with absurd zealotry. I think that it hurts the entire movement, which is a pity, especially when they do some useful stuff (the UNC lab-rat abuse a while back, for instance, where the staff was being delibrately cruel...)
PETA and the terrorist groups it associates with really ought to go after something that's a bit more widespread or quite a bit more cruel, not a few dozen squirrels being monitored humanely for what may yet prove incalculable benefits to mankind.
Could this be the answer to problems with long-distance space travel?
That depends on how many squirrels you can pack onto the ship.
These ground squirrels are probably deeply adapted in multidimensional ways to the low temperatures. In contrast, the biochemical pathways of people are all tuned to operate at normal body temperature. I doubt that there is an easy way to make the human body hiberate at low temperature. Too many systems would be affected or thrown out-of-balance by the cold.
/. already). Helping astronauts retain bone mass during zero-G would involve a less severe chemical rejiggering than creating full-fledged cold-body hibernation.
Nonetheless, we can learn from hibernating animals. One area that may be promising is how bears maintain bone density during hibernation (pardon my potential redundancy if this was posetd on
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
Or we could start freezing the useless and parasitic parts of the population and use them for building materials.
I, for one, would like to be able to buy a cord of assorted frozen politicians, lawyers, telemarketers, and SCO executives and build a log cabin of them. This may only work in northern regions though and you'd still have to insulate them to keep the summer heat from reawakening them, because that is a nightmare beyond imagining. Imagine your house beginning to yammer at you in mid-spring and reach a full-blast talk-fest in August until quietening down in October.
We've got plenty of useless people in society...why not do something useful with them? Building materials. Lawn gnomes. Support beams for coal mines. Nuclear moderating rods. If we ever need to run dangerous medical tests we can reanimate them and they'll be perfecty useful again! Or we could freeze them into hibernation for most of the year except for a designated hunting season in March when they are warmed up and turned loose in a few game reserves.
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Stop the Slashdot Effect! Don't read the articles!
You are right that Hibernation won't increase your lifespan, but cryogenic freezing might. If it is possible to slow down the atoms in a cell to near 0 Kelvin without crystalization, then you got your ticket to Tau Ceti.
"Barnes' research may do little to enhance human-squirrel relations, however, since it involves luring the squirrel into a cage and then whisking it off to the operating table where its abdominal cavity is cut open and a data logger inserted."
They love to state the obvious.
Also, what happens to the data logger?
"Barnes said that the squirrels are not bothered by the procedure"
I'd be bothered if some massive stranger came over, offered me food, didn't give it and put me in a cage. Let alone then operating on me!
Wonder if the dataloggers Microsoft Windows CE powered...
Is it a boat?
I have an ex-girlfriend who was frigid in bed
It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men. -Frederick Douglass
"The logger consists of a computer chip with memory capacity, a battery and a thermometer. It records the squirrel's internal temperature every 12 minutes. After a year and a half, the memory capacity is full."
And now Barnes and the little squirrel live happily ever after...
Almost.
Is it a boat?
Perhaps we could build some kind of 'ark', load it up with this bunch of bloody loonies, and arrange to have it crash somewhere very remote so we don't have to deal with them anymore.
As long as everyone keeps their telephones clean, we'll be OK.
That is typically an indication tht you're not drinking it fast enough...
=Smidge=
Everybody knows they already tried this with long-distance space travel. The problem wasn't freezing people, it was getting HAL to look after them.
Duh.
Besides, didn't we just leave this party?
Time traveling Artic Space squrrels return from Alpha Centauri to open the well recieved Chu Man chain of Chinese restaurants until it is learned they serve humans. AS DINER!
...those Harvard light freezers about these squirrels. They might have a new place to shoot photons.
Hey, a bit off the wall, but wouldn't this be the answer to unemployment as well? Sure you'd have to figure out something to represent you so you don't have to be defrosted for every interview (as I assume the frosting/defrosting part is the worst), but I think that can be solved.
Think about it, you get fired, and instead of heading to the bar and spending your last paycheck on booze, you step into a freezer and then when you wake up someone's ready to do final negotiations on salary & benefits with you. You've probably even made money from the unemployment checks. Now, if they could only figure out a way to have you virtually play video games the entire time you're frozen.
(And no, I'm not serious, although it's cool to think about)
Kurdt
I'm not anti-social. Just pro-technology.
I mean, besides the fact that we have no reason to send people long distances through space at the moment? Where would you prefer Darl McBride be: 1) In Utah, or 2) En route to Alpha Centauri? Just don't make the mistake of assuming some people (like the telephone sanitizers) are dispensable when they really are not. Let's face it, we've got to start exporting lawyers to SOMEWHERE, and Siberia won't take 'em!
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
Your system has a bunch of different ways of handling cells that have DNA errors. There are some systems for actually repairing your DNA and there are systems for recognizing (and destroying) cells with lots of problems (this is a large part of what a sunburn is).
All the techniques depend on your cells operating normally. If you hibernate for six months, presumably metabolism is slowed and those processes will slow. That means that your normal radiation repair functions will be inhibited and you'll be more likely to wake up with the precursors to cancer.
Not good...
I suppose, if you're out cold (literally) then you could be out cold in a tiny little chamber with some walls with a lot of mass. But those won't block everything. You have to wonder how an awake person in your average double-hulled, water-filled-gap space ship (which doesn't exist yet) will fare against the side of beef in the thickwalled freezer over the long run.
1. 2.
welcome our new cryogenic squirrel overlords!
Ah... I long for the days of AYBABTU...
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By replicating the squirrel's trick, transplant organs would have a longer shelf life.
Use your imagination (for something other than sci fi). There are plenty of sane scientific uses for this concept, that still guarantee keeping a steady -3 degrees.
Then again, there's cryogenic freezing, and that's pretty much what I'm living to wait for now.
And are funded by Tyson Foods (the largest chicken processor) and the National Cattlemen's Beef Association, among others.
PeTA's tactics are... get ready for this shocker... ad campaigns. If there were real "terrorist" connections (especially with some of these "terrorists" quoted by name, at public gatherings), in this post-911 world, don't you think these people would've been nabbed?
PeTA most likely didn't "go after" these squirrel monitors, they get contacted for quotes ALL THE TIME, because they are the largest animal rights group in the world. The main focus is on factory farming, see Meet Your Meat and The Meatrix.
As for "absurd zealotry", that could easily be applied to those who defend the killing of 10 billion land animals every year in the U.S., and 15 billion acquatic ones.
Anyway, if you don't get it now, you will eventually, when we finally run out of resources and can't keep pumping 80% of the food and fresh water into inefficient middlemen consumers. Then you'll be eating veggie burgers by necessity.
...for a band
I suspect this is all part of some elaborate scheme to steal more sunflower seeds from a nearby birdfeeder. Of course, we haven't figured out their plan yet - they're still outsmarting us.
"So long and thanks for all the sunflower seeds", and such.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
I like to think that my blood has a lower freezing point than others; it generally has a higher alcohol content than the average person's blood. I like to think that by drinking I would be able to survive some pretty extremely cold situations.
On another note: "Hello everyone. . . My name is Mike. . . I'm an alcoholic"
YOU'RE WINNER !
Another lame blog
The Seagull and Arctic Ice Fish can both produce an "anti freeze" compound in their bloodstream. I guess the squirrel can do similar. The big question is; Can humans tolerate this toxin? also, what are the by products from this toxin? I hope we find answers because this is required for future space travel. http://www.solcomhouse.com/Antarctica.htm
The aliens wrath will be terrible, their retribution swift.
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But i don't think preventing ice crystal damage would be the major problem for cryogenic suspension. Cryosleep would essentially shut down the electrophysiological processes in the brain, and I don't see a way to "reboot" the brain properly once it is shut down. There's a lot more to this than antifreeze compounds.
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... welcome our new supercool squirrel overlords!
Fact: squirrels are dying
It is common knowledge that squirrels are dying. Everyone knows that ever hapless squirrels are mired in an irrecoverable and mortifying tangle of fatal trouble. It is perhaps anybody's guess as to which squirrels are the worst off of an admittedly suffering squirrels community. The numbers continue to decline for Windows but squirrels may be hurting the most. Look at the numbers. The erosion of user base for squirrels continues in a head spinning downward spiral.
All major marketing surveys show that squirrels have steadily declined in market share. squirrels are very sick and their long term survival prospects are very dim. If squirrels are to survive at all it will be among hobbyist dilettante dabblers. In truth, for all practical purposes squirrels are already dead. They are a dead man walking.
Fact: squirrels are dying
I don't see why they should object, assuming their microwave has a defrost setting
hmm... I hope they have an good explanation for how the blood stays in a supercooled state.
My understanding is that liquid is a supercooled state is very unstable. I saw a small mud puddle (in Canada) that had gotten into a supercooled state because the temperature was dropping very slowly and the puddle was not disturbed at all. But if you disturb it even a little, the whole thing would freeze solid. Does this happen to the squirls? What happens if you kick a hibernating squirel?