Sub-Zero Squirrels

DesertFalcon writes "There's a Wired article about squirrels in the Arctic whose body temperatures drop below freezing when they hibernate. Scientists have the goal of applying this to humans in the long run. Could this be the answer to problems with long-distance space travel?" We had a previous story on this.

Comments

Temperature is not an issue

[ptaff]

Could this be the answer to problems with long-distance space travel?

We're talking about -3C, it's not that fantastic. Some fish already survive in waters colder than 0C, and Girl scouts already know about it :)

And if a space habitat can heat up to 270K, well I guess it can heat up to 288K. It's not that different compared to the one digit Kelvin temperature in space.

Hibernation is the real issue here.

Re:Temperature is not an issue

[Acidic_Diarrhea]

You may be completely correct. The only possible explanation of why this is more interesting than those fish (and I may be off in left field with this - so correct me if I am) aren't mammals. A squirrel is interesting because it is a mammal. Obviously the hibernation situation is the big step but I guess I see this as proof of concept that an animal similar to humans, moreso than fish anyway, can survive below freezing. Thanks for your comment nonetheless.

Re:Temperature is not an issue

[cupofjoe]

I would think the problem would be warming up after the hibernation period was over. The squirrel has to retain enough stored energy to complete this process.

Come to think of it, as long as its body fluid doesn't freeze, the required energy remains minimal - melting is what hogs up so much energy. Now, the supercooling without freezing; that suggests that squirrel blood has a very low concentration of dissolved solids - or, like a previous poster suggested, has some kind of antifreeze in there.

Because, with enough small particles for the freezing process to "grab on" to, BAM. Squirrel-cicle.

I just have to add one thing, in reference to the original article:

"PETA's Chandna said it may be difficult to translate this information into human applications. "I think squirrels are very different from us..."

Duh.

Re:Temperature is not an issue

[curious.corn]

No, the problem is that solid water has a larger volume that it's liquid form. Freeze an organism containing water and you'll rip cellular stuctures apart. There wouldn't be any problem if the extreme cold ground matabolism to a halt because given decent enough thermal conditions some reactions would occour naturally and provide enough heat to provide for the more delicate ones. Unfortunately you can't just shut down before anoxia because water crystals destroy those delicate biochemical reactors that keep you alive (that's the reason frozen fruit looses it's consistency and taste when frozen).

Re:Temperature is not an issue

[Anonymous Cow herd]

Freeze an organism containing water and you'll rip cellular stuctures apart.

Actually, there is a species of frog that freezes solid during the winter, and thaws out (and lives!) in the summer. More info here

Re:Temperature is not an issue

[barakn]

Organs are routinely frozen in DMSO (dimethyl sulfoxide), which protects the cells from ice-crystal damage. DMSO can have some toxic effects, but it still might have a place in the freezing of whole humans.

PETA objects... wow

[Anonymous Coward]

It seems interesting to me that a large portion of the article is related to PETA's objections to the program. I've done research into PETA for a school project... At first, I was respectful of the institution's goals- ethical treatment, yaddayadda, cool stuff, right on!
But PETA's tactics and policies seem iffy at best... this website has spiffy links with quotes from PETA people...
I find this a pity. There should surely be some group out there which is concerned with animal rights but isn't afflicted with absurd zealotry. I think that it hurts the entire movement, which is a pity, especially when they do some useful stuff (the UNC lab-rat abuse a while back, for instance, where the staff was being delibrately cruel...)

PETA and the terrorist groups it associates with really ought to go after something that's a bit more widespread or quite a bit more cruel, not a few dozen squirrels being monitored humanely for what may yet prove incalculable benefits to mankind.

Dems good eatin

[seanmeister]

Could this be the answer to problems with long-distance space travel?

That depends on how many squirrels you can pack onto the ship.

Don't bet on a quick fix, but learn anyway

[G4from128k]

These ground squirrels are probably deeply adapted in multidimensional ways to the low temperatures. In contrast, the biochemical pathways of people are all tuned to operate at normal body temperature. I doubt that there is an easy way to make the human body hiberate at low temperature. Too many systems would be affected or thrown out-of-balance by the cold.

Nonetheless, we can learn from hibernating animals. One area that may be promising is how bears maintain bone density during hibernation (pardon my potential redundancy if this was posetd on /. already). Helping astronauts retain bone mass during zero-G would involve a less severe chemical rejiggering than creating full-fledged cold-body hibernation.

can you buy 'em by the dozen?

[KingPrad]

Or we could start freezing the useless and parasitic parts of the population and use them for building materials.

I, for one, would like to be able to buy a cord of assorted frozen politicians, lawyers, telemarketers, and SCO executives and build a log cabin of them. This may only work in northern regions though and you'd still have to insulate them to keep the summer heat from reawakening them, because that is a nightmare beyond imagining. Imagine your house beginning to yammer at you in mid-spring and reach a full-blast talk-fest in August until quietening down in October.

We've got plenty of useless people in society...why not do something useful with them? Building materials. Lawn gnomes. Support beams for coal mines. Nuclear moderating rods. If we ever need to run dangerous medical tests we can reanimate them and they'll be perfecty useful again! Or we could freeze them into hibernation for most of the year except for a designated hunting season in March when they are warmed up and turned loose in a few game reserves.
-

Re:Squirrals? Big Deal.

[rhs98]

I bet she didn't even need an injection to achieve that with your subtly

Re:Supercooling

[cupofjoe]

In that case, then, could you imagine what a strong, localized earthquake would do to the local squirrel population?

It'd be like a bunch of icepacks with fur.

I think the fact that supercooling proceeds to completion at all is a sign that there's something else going on.

RIP Kaminski, Hunter, and White.

[cupofjoe]

Everybody knows they already tried this with long-distance space travel. The problem wasn't freezing people, it was getting HAL to look after them.

Duh.

Besides, didn't we just leave this party?

Re:An entire useless third of the population...

[Bishop923]

Europe tried that a few hundred years ago and it came back to bite them in the ass :-)

The answer to unemployment!

[KurdtX]

Hey, a bit off the wall, but wouldn't this be the answer to unemployment as well? Sure you'd have to figure out something to represent you so you don't have to be defrosted for every interview (as I assume the frosting/defrosting part is the worst), but I think that can be solved.

Think about it, you get fired, and instead of heading to the bar and spending your last paycheck on booze, you step into a freezer and then when you wake up someone's ready to do final negotiations on salary & benefits with you. You've probably even made money from the unemployment checks. Now, if they could only figure out a way to have you virtually play video games the entire time you're frozen.

(And no, I'm not serious, although it's cool to think about)

Another problem with radiation...

[orn]

Your system has a bunch of different ways of handling cells that have DNA errors. There are some systems for actually repairing your DNA and there are systems for recognizing (and destroying) cells with lots of problems (this is a large part of what a sunburn is).

All the techniques depend on your cells operating normally. If you hibernate for six months, presumably metabolism is slowed and those processes will slow. That means that your normal radiation repair functions will be inhibited and you'll be more likely to wake up with the precursors to cancer.

Not good...

I suppose, if you're out cold (literally) then you could be out cold in a tiny little chamber with some walls with a lot of mass. But those won't block everything. You have to wonder how an awake person in your average double-hulled, water-filled-gap space ship (which doesn't exist yet) will fare against the side of beef in the thickwalled freezer over the long run.

I, for one,

[MainframeKiller]

welcome our new cryogenic squirrel overlords!

Ah... I long for the days of AYBABTU...