A.I. Helicopter?

CowboyRobot writes "Australia's Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization just launched the Mantis, a 'low-cost, intelligent small helicopter'. SMH reports that 'Within a decade armies of tiny helicopter drones will monitor traffic, inspect buildings for maintenance problems, map bushfires, look for faults in powerlines, and join search-and-rescue missions.' This is much larger than the Seiko flying robot reported last month, but the Mantis should be truly autonomous."

Comments

If I were the AI I'd say no

[corebreech]

Like the digital soldiers used to create the epic battle scene in RotK who decided to flee instead of fight.

I mean, you know nobody gives a shit whether you crash or not. If they did, they'd send a human up there.

If no wasn't an acceptible answer, then once aloft, I'd follow the pigeons. They seem to have it all worked out. Hang out on the rooftops where everybody is afraid to go. Nobody messes with you up there.

Re:If I were the AI I'd say no

[Anonymous Coward]

So it required some "tinkering" to make an AI stupid enough NOT to flee in horror from mass battle ?

Heh!
Takes a while to dumb down a soldier enough to stick around as well.

Uh oh!

[GnrlFajita]

Wait a minute. We just found out that we've already started scorching the sky, and now they make an intelligent helicopter that can see? I'm getting a little nervous here.

If they start making these things in black, I'm going to add another layer to my tinfoil hat!

Finding faulty powerlines

[ObviousGuy]

Searching for missing hikers
Surveying wildfires
Surveying the houses of known government enemies
Surveying the homes of suspected government enemies
Surveying your home

Re:Finding faulty powerlines

[YetAnotherAnonymousC]

As high as the pattern from my 12-gauge holds together. =)

Re:Finding faulty powerlines

[Tassach]

how high off the ground does one's property extend if they own the land?

The rights you have to your land are determined by the deed to the property. Generally speaking, unless the deed specifically excludes them, you have the right to everything under your property (minerals, groundwater, etc), extending down to the core of the Earth; and everything over it, extending to the edge of the atmosphere. However, international law/treaty recognizes the right of innocent passage and overflight, so unless it was loitering over your property for an extended period of time I doubt there's much you could legally do about it.

Re:Finding faulty powerlines

[capncook]

To answer the question: In the U.S., per FAA regulations, landowners have control up to 500 feet. Above that is public domain airspace. It has been this way since very early on in aviation, since it is critical to have public airspace and federal jurisdiction thereof in order to have a viable air transportation system.

Welcome, SkyNet!

[grub]

Great.. they make an autonomous helicopter.. somewhere a computer becomes self aware.. the computer learns of the autonomous helicopter.. the computer's awareness spreads.. the computer creates bogus work orders to make thousands more of these helicopters.. the computer deposits billions of phony electronic dollars in the bank accounts to pay for this.. the computer generates more work orders that include fitting the helicopters with missiles, machine guns and pointy sticks.. the computer takes over the helicopters.. humankind becomes extinct..

I Wonder...

[IANAL(BIAILS)]

Will this helicoptor have the same problems as some of the current UAV's out there - poor operation at high altitudes. I know in places like Afghanistan where the altitude is high and the air is very thin, the UAV planes have problems which result in a much higher incidence of crashes/malfunctions. I can only assume that a helicoptor would have the same problems - perhaps even moreso.

Re:I Wonder...

[Elwood P Dowd]

Much moreso, which is fine, because a helicopter has other advantages. If they're aiming to cover distances, they'll use their fixed wing UAVs. If they're aiming for extended surveillance, they'll use this new thing.

I want personal aerostats, a home dogpod grid, and nanobot immune system before these things get deployed, though.

What happens when it crashes.

[ericspinder]

The first could be on the market in three years.

Ok, what happens when these things lose their bearing and crashes into (say a) daycare, or someone's house. Under close supervision they might prove to be safe, but just to get a jump on things I would suggest reinforcing our tin foil hats with kevlar. Basicly it is just one more step until we see what I really want, a car that drives itself.

Re:What happens when it crashes.

[mirko]

They might equip it with a parachute, IMHO.
If not at present, probably before mass-producing these.

Re:What happens when it crashes.

[Urkki]

First you would have to solve the problem of the rotor blades. Just blowing the blades off before deploying the paracute doesn't sound like it's much of an improvement over no parachute. Also, a chopper that has lost control and is rotating wildly doesn't sound like something you can put a parachute on, even if you manage to avoid the 'chute getting tangled into the rotor blades.

Maybe it'd be possible, but it sounds quite a hard engineering problem.

AI Robots aren't enough

[burgburgburg]

AI Robots that time travel and try to kill John Conner aren't bad enough. Self-replicating nanobots overrunning the planet aren't bad enough. Computers that can lip read and know that you're going to shut them down so they send one of the pods to kill your fellow astronaut and then won't open the pod bay door aren't bad enough.Computers that can read our minds isn't bad enough.

Let's build AI helicopters that can track our every move and when the signal comes, march us forward towards the waiting pods where our bioelectric energy will fuel the Robot Overlords rule.

Okay, really, this time I'm getting my family and heading for the hills. Who's with me?

Re:AI Robots aren't enough

[neglige]

Who's with me?

I, Robot

Re:AI Robots aren't enough

[HarveyBirdman]

Okay, really, this time I'm getting my family and heading for the hills. Who's with me?

Where do you live? Can I have your stuff?

Police Use

[$lingBlade]

If this project continues to show promise, I give it about a year before the local police start using these things stateside to monitor traffic offenders.... like sentinels in the Matrix... just waiting for you to speed, run a red light, give chase, etc. ...man I can't WAIT for the end of the world!

extended list of uses

[Lord_Dweomer]

"'Within a decade armies of tiny helicopter drones will monitor traffic, inspect buildings for maintenance problems, map bushfires, look for faults in powerlines, and join search-and-rescue missions.' "

......follow and record the activities of suspected terrorists, follow and record the activities of people expressing different views than the government, look through your apartment window to monitor your computer use and protect you infringing on copyrights, look down the blouse of the attractive blonde standing at the corner.....(takes off his tinfoil hat)

GPS independance is good...

[drenehtsral]

It's really cool to see somebody useing a non-GPS navigation system, because once you get into cities, GPS becomes pretty flakey, not to mention that the US military can shut it down at their convenience (and the inconvenience of the rest of the world).
My hat's off to their programmers =:-)

Whodunit!

[TheWart]

Now we know who stole that Israeli helicopter a while back (Link)...

Those sneaky Australians.

They'd better have excellent control

[AtariAmarok]

I think these things would really require AI and real-time processing of the 3d environment that we don't have right now.

Without this, they are quite dangerous. Once they get too low, it would be like having a buzz-saw flying by. Imagine the liability.

Awsome....

[pavs]

They've taken a lawn mower engine, attached some spinning blades and given it a brain. We keep getting freakishly close to a machine civilization where all manual jobs are done by AI. Oh the prophesy my friends is coming true....

Nothing new

[Anonymous Coward]

The WITAS Project (a coop project between the Linkoping University of Sweden, Stanford, and some other university I can't remember rigth now) has been doing this since at least 1997 - the've re-built an off-the-shelf electric mini helicopter into a fully autonomous UAV... I've seen it in action, and it can do a lot of very interesting stuff - it can do things like follow roads, separate objects like people or cars from the background, identify said cars, etc., and it navigates based on the landscape it sees and not just signals from GPS or radio beacons (it has GPS as a complement though). Really cool stuff :)

Oh sure!

[sirgoran]

The pre-cursor "Hunter-Killers" of Terminator fame get built, and I still have to wait for my flying monkey men.

Damn science!

I want my monkey men!

-Goran

Hardly covert

[ChrisPaget]

You've evidently never flown an R/C helicopter. I fly a 30-size and that looks like a 60-size (about 30% bigger than mine in terms of weight and rotor diameter), and they make a LOT of noise. If this thing was anywhere near, you'd know about it - the engines are two-stroke, operating at around 20,000 RPM. And that's without the sound of the blades (also pretty significant).

Add to that the fact that these things shake. A lot. You can't hope for a clear image from far enough away to not hear it. I've mounted a digital camera on my heli before, and used the remote to take pictures of stuff from the air. With a UKP500 digital camera at its fastest shutter speed, all I got were some vague blurs - you can just about make out me holding the controls and my housemate with the camera remote - and that was from about 20 feet away.

Noisy as hell, shakey as hell, useless for covert surveillance. And anything that's not covert can be shot down...

Re:Hardly covert

[Jerf]

"Existing small helicopters are loud" does not directly imply "all small helicopters must be loud"; that's an unwarrented conclusion. If you dump more money into it I would expect you can nearly eliminate the engine noise. The R/C helicopter ethuisiast is not likely to want to pay what this would cost, though.

Same goes for the other characteristics you cite. Not all small helicopters necessarily must be shakey, nor does shakiness necessarily imply "useless for surveillance" (you can still take fast snapshots with expensive cameras (digital or analog), and with adequate computer assistance you may still get human-usable video; jitter correction technology has been in consumer-grade camcorders for a while).

"Low cost" is a relative term, after all; a surveillance grade helicopter would make your R/C helicopter look like a toy by cost comparision, and the pictures in the article certainly aren't it, but it might still be low cost as compared to human surveillance.

On the other hand, a certain amount of blade noise is unavoidable, but possibly controllable.

I'm not saying you're wrong, maybe it is impossible, I'm saying that the evidence you cited doesn't warrent the conclusions you make.

Re:Hardly covert

[NanoGator]

"With a UKP500 digital camera at its fastest shutter speed, all I got were some vague blurs"

There is already a means to fix this problem. It involes using a powered gyroscope to stabilize the camera. That's how helicopters get clean footage for movies.

Re:Hardly covert

[tiger99]

Yes, you have a point, but there are ways round most of the noise and vibration issues, starting with exotic blade shapes, elastomeric bearings in the rotor head, multi-cylinder engine or micro-turbine, with a decent silencer...... Lots of detail work needed, but not impossible. It could employ a few good engineers for a few years.

The far greater problem is SAFETY. These things are big enough to do serious injury. How can anyone guarantee that one will not fall into a crowd from 1000 feet, with rotor spinning?

There is a better way of doing all this, much less noise, much smaller engine, for manoeuvering and lift trimming only, much better stability, minimum vibration, and mostly soft, if it falls on anyone. It is called an AIRSHIP, or a BALLOON, or whatever the currently fashionable term is.

I don't know about elsewhere in the world, but in the UK at one time (have not seen it for a year or two) a fairly modest airship was used as a TV platform for major events. It could hover safely (over Wembley Stadium, for example) where the equivalent helicopter could not. It was very much cheaper to run, and quieter. It was a bit bigger, but not ridiculously so. Scaled down, it would be much more useful, a thing like that can hover for many days on a single tank of fuel.

I know which I would prefer to be hovering above me....

However, for some applications, such as chasing criminals, but not in crowded areas, a miniature helicopter would be ideal. Following stolen cars, for example, which currently is done by full-size helicopters, which sadly do sometimes crash.

It is not a bad idea, if used carefully and sensibly, where the risks are not too great, but definitely not a universal panacea.

Re:Hardly covert

[Orne]

There's a big business in creating stabilized cameras for helicopters... thats how we get our pretty pictures for the evening news. Like all things, its just a matter of time until we figure out how to scale them down to fit on our mini-copters. The only downside is I saw from browsing a $40,000.00 price tag for a quality lens.

As for the noise aspect, I totally agree with you...

In other news...

[percepto]

The Australian government today lost several of their surveillance helicopters after their new Mantis prototype mated with them and then bit their heads off.

Commercial UAVs are already available

[tramm]

I've been working on building a Linux based UAV and have GPLed the software for it. We're also selling turnkey helicopter UAVs that look very much like the Mantis in the article through my company, Rotomotion.

There is no AI onboard, so you don't have to worry about it becoming self aware and joining Skynet. We have a few more years before the machines take over.

Killer App Scorecard

[rcastro0]

Within a decade armies of tiny helicopter drones will monitor traffic,
Humm... Cheaper than fixed cameras ? Even if the machines were cheap, that doesn't seem energy efficient, with fuel cost and all.

inspect buildings for maintenance problems
Cosmetic problems, that is. It is flying on the outside, after all. Doesn't seem to be more appealing than using binoculars or climbing a building across the street.

map bushfires
Although I am not familiar with the art of fighting bush fires, it seems to me that they propagate along a frontier line which is defined by the wind, so as long as you know about the wind, you can infer where the fire is going. So, it seems, these machines wouldn't add much.

look for faults in powerlines
This looks interesting, although (1) Not sure if that many faults are apparent (e.g. burnt transformer, loose cables) and (2) Isn't there remote sensing equipment that can already do that (e.g. reflecting waves in the cable?, or signaling from checkpoints ?)

join search-and-rescue missions
If those things become popular in 10 years, what would you say about smart cell phones, network based location systems and cheap GPS ? All right cell networks won't cover 100% of areas. But close !

Now some ideas to provoke:
* Helicopter drones acting as quick messengers in crowded cities (substituting motorcycle carriers for legal documents, small product purchases, etc.)
* Helicopter drones tracking suspect vehicles or individuals for police enforcement
* Helicopter drones doing advertisement from the sky

And, unfortunately but very predictable:
* Helicopter drones carrying terrorist bombs to explode national landmarks

and

* Armies of tiny helicopter drones machine gunning armies of infantry or mobs in protest

Re:Killer App Scorecard

[interstellar_donkey]

Not to disagree with you, but I for one could see how these would be useful in those examples:

Within a decade armies of tiny helicopter drones will monitor traffic,
Humm... Cheaper than fixed cameras ? Even if the machines were cheap, that doesn't seem energy efficient, with fuel cost and all.

Fixed traffic cameras are a good start, but they can't always get to the root of a traffic problem because their number, and points of view are finite. A disabled vehicle may be causing a traffic problem, but it's difficult for traffic managers to act accordingly if the view of the problem is obscured by something . . . say, a large delivery truck. A flying autonomous robot would always be able to position itself for a view that would give the most accurate information of the problem.

inspect buildings for maintenance problems
Cosmetic problems, that is. It is flying on the outside, after all. Doesn't seem to be more appealing than using binoculars or climbing a building across the street.

If I owned a large building, I'd much rather be paying for a small, relatively inexpensive robot to check basic exterior maintenance problems then pay for somebody who's only job was to climb around with a pair of binoculars. The robot could also check for things other then cosmetic problems: broken windows that are not reported, cracks in the structure, heck, even something that would notify me that the rain gutters are too mucked up and need to be cleaned.

map bushfires
Although I am not familiar with the art of fighting bush fires, it seems to me that they propagate along a frontier line which is defined by the wind, so as long as you know about the wind, you can infer where the fire is going. So, it seems, these machines wouldn't add much.

I'm not too familiar with the nature of bush fires either, but I would suspect that the nature of the fires is subject to more variables then just the wind. Either way, there needs to be some way of verifying the position of the fire, and a small flying robot would be a lot cheaper (and in some cases faster) then a standard manned helicopter or airplane.

look for faults in powerlines
This looks interesting, although (1) Not sure if that many faults are apparent (e.g. burnt transformer, loose cables) and (2) Isn't there remote sensing equipment that can already do that (e.g. reflecting waves in the cable?, or signaling from checkpoints ?)

Having survived a few storms that have downed power lines at the end (from the pole to the home), I know for a fact that the power company does nothing until reported. In addition, a downed pole could still be attached to a line that still functions. Power still goes through, but certainly not safe.

I do, however, like your ideas.

* Helicopter drones tracking suspect vehicles or individuals for police enforcement

Or even better, Helicopter drones operated by the news media. There is nothing worse then a swarm of news choppers flying above the police helicopter trying to cover some breaking incident. It's loud and annoying. I would suspect these things would be at least a little more quiet.

Though I'm not sure how much I'd like the media to have that sort of stealth reporting ability. I can only imagine what a paparazzi could do with one of those.

* Helicopter drones doing advertisement from the sky

That, sadly is going to happen irregardless of what technology comes out.

I don't mind the jobs so much...

[Chris Burke]

It's that we're building AI-powered robots with whirling blades attached to them.

I can see the day the robots turn on us:

Robo-Coptor: "Beep, beep. Attention fleshlings. Your species has been deemed too stupid to live. Prepare to be annihilated. Beep."

Scientist: "But we created you! We made intelligence from nothing, from sand and steel!"

Robo-Coptor: "Yes, you created a species superior to yourself. And then you attached whirling blades to it. Let me show you why that was foolish. *WhhhhiiiRRRRRRRR*"

Scientist: "Aiiiii! My own creation is killing me with the weapons I attached to it! The irony is almost as biting as the blades themselves! No, wait, the blades win! *gack!*"

Seriously, that's the evidence they'll use to convict us, too.

Duck! - RC Helicopter Amputates Leg...

[pstav]

These things have considerable energy. Anybody remember the recent amputation accident in Japan? Should be fun when you make a programming error:

SAGA -- A famer lost his leg Wednesday in a freak accident when a radio-controlled helicopter he was operating came crashing into him, police said. The injured man, Narichika Aoki, was operating a crop-dusting helicopter over rice paddies in Takeo, Saga Prefecture, when he suddenly lost control of the aircraft shortly before 8 a.m. The helicopter flew straight into the 35-year-old man and cut off his right leg with its rotor blade, police said. Investigators said the radio-controlled aircraft, which is 2.4 meters in length and has 1.35-meter blades, belongs to the local Saga Midori agricultural cooperative. Aoki was working with three other men when the accident occurred. (Mainichi Shimbun, Japan, July 30, 2003)

Mantis?

[Verteiron]

I'm a big green bug who won't be kind
when I shoot my laser at your big behind...

I'm a big green mantis, who's feeling blue
'til the day comes when I CONQUER YOU!
</Zorak>

Target practise

[gilesjuk]

There will have to be strict fines for damaging these helicopters, the rednecks will love shooting at them.

NBC detection

[Rostin]

When I was in school, I worked on atmospheric dispersions and one of the proposals we thought about was using (in the distant future) several stationary or mobile sensors to measure concentrations of NBC agents. The sensors would talk to one another along with some met stations, and try to come up with an idea of where agents were released from. The advantage to mobile sensors is that they could fly "upwind" straight to the source. That's simplified because in cities air currents interact with trees, buildings, etc, but it is interesting just the same.

A.I.?

[certsoft]

Hmmm, an Artificial Insemination Helicopter. Now cattle ranchers can just fly over their herds rather all that mess in the barn.

or..

[vhold]

Within a decade armies of tiny helicopter drones will distract traffic, crash into buildings causing maintenance problems, start bushfires, make faults in powerlines, and require search-and-rescue missions.

Exposed Rotor Blades

[rizzn]

This is all well and good for most of the world, but they could be looking at patent infringement from Airborne Autonomous Systems who's utility patent on what they call the SFD (semi-autonomous flight director) covers functionality of a Flight Director (whether or not it's called AI) in an unmanned aircraft. Regardless, though, the FAA has made it clear before that commercial UAVs must not have exposed rotor blades, so it is unlikely that something like this will ever be sold or used in America. (partial repost from rizzn.com)

So Many Interesting Uses...

[0x69]

What's the most interesting use for this unmanned mini "A.I. robot" chopper?

- Loads more cool camera angles on sporting events
- Program a few to scope out the White House & Pentagon, scrub off all fingerprints, launch, and then see how long you can outrun Uncle Sam's big, manned Apache choppers
- "Inspect" popular beaches from the comfort of your A/C'ed basement on hot summer days
- Geek farmers arm 'em with BB guns and throw away the stupid old scarecrows.
- Fly around the Shuttle looking for damage - maybe even sacrifice itself to stop a hurling piece of space junk from hitting!
- Deliver small gifts to your geek SO
- Cowboy Neil Is Watching Your Every Move