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RealNetworks Sues Microsoft Over Antitrust Issues
jamacdon writes "Yahoo! has an article about RealNetworks Inc. filing an antitrust suit against Microsoft, claiming that MS has violated antitrust laws. This claim appears to revolve around how PC makers are restricted from including competing media players. Very similiar to the Internet Explorer issue, but different content. Will the results be the same?"
Real has a case there, because Microsoft is using the same tried-and-true approach that made IE what it is today. And the fact that they make it almost impossible to remove WMP in XP will make the case that much more believable.
If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions.
Yeah, it's similar to the IE issue, but I always prefered Netscape/Mozilla to IE (still do). With media players, though, my favourite is actually Windows Media. I used to like Real, but it's just SO bloated now.
That said, I probably only used Windows Media Player in the first place because I already had it.
Seems to me the DOJ is doing one lame ass job in enforcing antitrust laws.
Ask yourself, how FAIR can competition be when one application gets deep penetration into the consumer market while others are locked out on purpose?
eTrade SUCKS
does the "can't be prosecuted for the same crime more than once" rule apply here? hasn't ms already gone through this same essential complaint?
One could argue that Microsoft uses their monopoly position to strongly urge the OEMs not to include Real software. This would certainly be a violation of the settlement. It seems that Microsoft is still pulling the strings when OEMs need to decide what software to include with their computers. That's not a good thing.
I dunno, I think that the real reason Real Player died out is more or less due to a lower quality program. True, Microsoft's bundling may have caused Real Player usage to decline prematurely, but it was inevitable that it would die out sooner or later.
Mind your own business. Never in my life I've seen a piece of software as intrusive, spyware and ad-ridden and poorly written as Real Player. Face it, fellas, even if you force Microsoft to bundle RealPlayer with Windows it isn't gonna fly. First thing the customers will do is they will turn this piece of crap off, because it will try feed insane amounts of ads to them and pop up the god damn notification thingy to remind you that even though it's not doing anything useful at the time it's still taking up 10M of RAM and some processor resources while also trying to upsell you on the crap you could care less about.
Good god, I don't want them to win. I'd hate to have to remove this shit from my newly purchased PC.
>>It no longer has spyware. Real Networks has stated that a number of times. However there seems to be a pattern of people using packet sniffers and discovering that RealPlayer sends out machine specific identifiers and urls to Real's network. To which Real replies "opps, guess we missed that one"
They gave me Liquid Audio Jukebox when I got my laptop from them. It was an ad-laden piece of shit, so I deleted it immediately. IMO, WMP9 is a better product than Realplayer or Liquid Audio, with very straightforward privacy settings. However, haven't OEMs been putting Realplayer on computers even before the MS antitrust trial?
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
True, but Netscape lost a lot of marketshare by continuing to charge for their browser up until 4.something when Microsoft was giving theirs away for free all along. They also really missed the boat with AOL; rather than take a loss in order to gain enormous market share, they demanded that AOL pay them. Not unreasonable actions in themselves, but in those circumstances it killed them.
Anyone here use RealPlayer?
...; there are a million reasons. I used to respect Real; they used to be a good company. But now that their marketshare has declined, they're going and taking advantage of all the people who do use RealPlayer. The only reason people bother having RealPlayer on their systems is to play streaming broadcasts encoded in Real codecs, and now, most sites offer streams in both Windows Media Player and Real formats. Look at Amazon, they offer samples from music cds in Real and WMP format.
Personally, I think it's a bloated piece of crudware. It pops up zillions of ads for garbage, the player's slow,
Anyway, this lawsuit has no merit. My Dell laptop came preloaded with MusicMatch, WMP, and RealOne! Three video/audio players! Nobody needs that much. Standardize on maximum 2. I uninstalled RealPlayer because it was so worthless...
Consider this two thumbs way way down for Real.
This is like a steel cage match between bin Laden and Hitler. Who the hell do I root for?
Y'know, I just pondered this for a moment, and find it somewhat odd...
Years ago, back in the prime of the dialup days, we just couldn't hate any company more than AOL. Anything involving them might as well have had leprosy, as far as geeks felt.
And yet now, with this tossup (WMP vs RealOne), I just realized that I currently use both a browser (Mozilla) and a media player (WinAmp) heavily funded by AOL.
Strange, how times can change. And yet, if you asked me my general opinion of AOL, I'd still say they suck - But I suppose I have to thank them for sponsoring two pretty nice programs.
Scary thought - Perhaps some day, we'll have to thank (gasp!) Microsoft for creating something nice for us? Eeeek. Time to go hide under the bed for a while.
Pun inadvertent, but what the heck
I sic'd the state attorney general on them when they had a premium service with few-click signup for a free trial. To unsubscribe, there was a web page. That did nothing. After I entered my unsubscribe info, the page digested it and then gave me a phone number to call.
Completely bogus barrier to cancel. The AG contacted them, and they replied that it's an accepted practice by such paragons of virtue as AOL.
You haven't used Real Player before have you Mr AC? Last time I had it installed, a TSR program if it would always be running in the background even when I never use it. Thus, everytime I opened up Winamp, Real would pop up a window asking if it really want's me to use Winamp to play MP3s.
And it get's worse, no matter how many times I rip out that little Real startup program from the registry, it always gets added back somehow. To hell with that I say. Real Player shall be forever baned from my PC.
Life is not for the lazy.
Don't forget about AIM and ICQ. Many geeks may hate AOL, but they still use their IM network.
To Windows users it was for all practical purposes free, which made it preferable to Netscape for many since they didn't have to pay extra for it.
As an aside, did Microsoft ever charge Mac users for IE?
I would love for AOL or Yahoo to do the same about MSN. That's even more intrusive than WMP.
No shit. In fact, I've always said that RealPlayer is the original spyware. Before this term was even coined, RealPlayer would take over your entire machine, send data about your usage back to the mother ship, and was a real bitch to get rid of. And no matter how many preferences you unchecked (be my default player, load on startup, run all the time, etc.) it would STILL be running in the background.
True, but don't forget about other MS activities. Like bundling agreements with OEMs, who charged you for Windows even if you didn't want it or have them install it. (If they were even allowed to forego installation!)
Basically, if you bought a system, you got it and paid for it whether you wanted to or not.
Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
Seriously. I can't believe that I'm actually rooting for Microsoft on this one. After years of crushing companies that made innovative, elegant, and useful software, I think the very least they could do for humanity would be to kill off Real.
.ASF and .WMV godawful? Hell yes. Are they so godawful that fscking Real starts to look like a good alternative?! Sweet Jebus, no!
Are
It's like choosing between a punch to the face or a punch to the groin--you're not gonna like it either way, but when you're icing down your face, you'll never think for a second that you have chosen...poorly.
Microsoft, I beg you--do the one thing that you do better than any other software company that has ever existed and pull the plug on these miserable bastards.
Micorosft didn't give it away gratis. It was part of the cost of Windows. It was no more "free" than, say, "WIN.EXE" is, or 'COMMAND.EXE', and so on. It's an app that is part of the OS's suite of standard Apps you can't entirely do without. It's not free - it's just that the cost is carried inside another product.
So by the same token, Real is screwed because WMP is part of the OS?
If MS puts Money into the OS, then Quicken is out of luck? What about if they start bundling their own PDF writer... Adobe has no recourse? Where does adding a product to the operating system *start* being anti-competitive?
Besides, you could download IE for Windows for free from their website. So all that's really true about what you're saying is that you can't run it without having Windows, which (theoretically) you have to pay MS for. But plenty of people got Windows before IE, and still got IE for free. How is that not giving it away? (not to mention that you could also download the Mac version for free...)
Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
A while back I was getting extremely frustrated with RealPlayer. All I wanted to do was watch some streaming video on the internet. You think this would be a pretty simple task. Not so when it's in RealPlayer format (.ram, .rm, .ra). RealPlayer has got to be the absolute most CRAPTACULAR piece of software ever made in the existence of man. It's worse than anything M$ has ever produced, hands down.
My problem was with the pop-ups, always asking me to register, sign over my soul and my first-born, etc etc. I plowed through this garbage, usually cancelling the registration process, and most of the time (if I was lucky) I would be able to watch the streaming video that I wanted to watch in the first place. However, one time RealPlayer just stopped working. No warning about not having registered, nothing. The RealPlayer window would come up, say it was connecting, but then just die. No streaming video. For no reason. (At first I thought it might be something wrong with the site providing the streaming video, but I tried some sites that I knew should work for sure, and the same thing happened.)
This was the last straw. I made a concerted effort to find an alternative product to RealPlayer that would still allow me to watch real media files. I struck gold when I encountered this message on usenet suggesting JetAudio: message.
I've used JetAudio since then. No annoying pop-ups, and fairly stable. I'm using version 5.1 basic. YMMV with whatever the latest release is, but I'm much happier with this product than I ever was with RealPlayer.
(BTW, I'm in no way affiliated with JetAudio.)
I hate having to install it every time I get a new job. I don't know if it has spyware, but it sure feels like it. There's so much crap that comes hanging on to it (I think the last time I loaded it, it put some AOL things on the computer)
Jesus folks, Netscape was *crap* by the time IE started eating their lunch(remember blink tags? ). Why? Because they had to create revenue. Same reason that Real sucks donkey balls through a straw. Look over there is a shiny penny! When the next cool thing comes along and Microsoft starts knifing the baby again, you idiots will be reminiscing about how poor Real(which you'll remember as way better than WMP 12) got killed, but this product is crap and deserves to die.
WMP, and IE are better, faster and less intrusive because they're funded out of revenues from something else. The coders just have to focus on making the program better. They don't have to worry about a revenue model.
Of course WMP is better than Real. That's the fucking point you bozos. Microsoft doesn't have to play by the same rules because they are funding WMP through the Microsoft tax. Real One has to make money.
The only people that can beat Microsoft are us Open Source folks because we don't worry about a revenue model either.
I'll agree that a pox on both their houses is in order, but Microsoft is abusing their monopoly in exactly the same way that they did to cut off Netscape's air supply and knife the baby.
~ a low user id is no indication I have a clue what I'm talking about.
Ok, so why are we worried about WMP? Every user needs a media player. Real can go out of business.
And browsers, everybody needs a browser, so who cares. Netscape can go out of business.
And CD burning software, everybody needs that these days. Ahead can go out of business.
Office software? Everybody needs that, so Corel and Lotus can go out of business.
Microsoft should simply bundle MS Office with Windows and save us another purchase. Oh, most OEM's do that already?
Games? Heck, Microsoft makes those too! Why do we need other companies for games and consoles?
Movies? Everybody watches movies, Microsoft should develop a way to watch hi-res digital movies! Oh, they did?
Microsoft has been looking for a CPU design team too...
At what point is the monopoly so strong that you people quit whining that it is "just application X and everyone needs it"?
If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. - James Madison
I have had good luck with a program called RealAlternative, which sounds about like JetAudio. I put it on one of my web sites on which I have a lot of RealAudio files (http://www.reformed-theology.org/realaudio/). This month alone RealAudio was downloaded 1177 times and last month it was downloaded 3211 times (I'm afraid to know about the legality of both the program and my ability to offer it for download). Basically RealAlternative is what the RealOne basic player should have been, period.
/. in that I despise RealAudio, but I started converting some of my more interesting audio tapes to the Real format because when I started doing it, it was basically the only game in town. Nobody had heard of MP3s back then or wma files, and you could compress an hour of audio down to an AM-radio-quality 5 MB
I'm with the rest of
file. If I had it to do over again, hell yeah, I would do it differently.
Transporter
I'm going to be wearing a hockey mask when I go off on everyone...
I have had good luck with RealAlternative. I put it on one of my web sites on which I have a lot of RealAudio files (http://www.reformed-theology.org/realaudio/). This month alone RealAlternative was downloaded 1177 times and last month it was downloaded 3211 times (I'm afraid to know about the legality of both the program and my ability to offer it for download). Basically RealAlternative is what the RealOne basic player should have been, period.
/. in that I despise RealAudio, but I started converting some of my more interesting audio tapes to the Real format because when I started doing it, it was basically the only game in town. Nobody had heard of MP3s back then or wma files, and you could compress an hour of audio down to an AM-radio-quality 5 MB
I'm with the rest of
file. If I had it to do over again, hell yeah, I would do it differently. But I have many, many hours of audio files and I'm NOT starting over from scratch.
Transporter
I'm going to be wearing a hockey mask when I go off on everyone...
Strange, how times can change. And yet, if you asked me my general opinion of AOL, I'd still say they suck - But I suppose I have to thank them for sponsoring two pretty nice programs.
Scary thought - Perhaps some day, we'll have to thank (gasp!) Microsoft for creating something nice for us? Eeeek. Time to go hide under the bed for a while.
To stay on a Hitlerian theme, why do you think it is called the "People's Car". Yup, that delightful vehicle so beloved by hippies and yuppies was heavily promoted by The Man himself as an example of the coming good times.
Don't you just hate it when people don't get credit for the _good_ things they do?