Speculation on SARS Origins

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Posted by michael on Saturday December 20, 2003 @05:37AM from the wmd dept.

JediJeremy writes "Nature has this article on the possibility that the SARS virus is a cross between mammal and bird viruses. The article does go on to say that this is totally speculation and that a mammal virus could have mutated. But it raises some interesting points, such as a possible new bio-terror weapon."

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Come on! its the chinese! by mnmn · 2003-12-20 06:04 · Score: 0, Funny

Those icky people eat snakes and cats, and it were the poor kittens in cages where SARS started out from. AIDS too started in Africa from some kind of sexual contact with Chimps.

Like all diseases, SARS too must have come from people very different from us because they're barbaric/savages/weird/icky. We're too clean to spawn diseases although due to sheer bad luck we were hit bad.

We should begin with banning all flights from China and Hong Kong. THAT oughtta fix it.

--
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
1. Re:Come on! its the chinese! by Frac · 2003-12-20 06:35 · Score: 0, Offtopic
  
  We should begin with banning all flights from China and Hong Kong. THAT oughtta fix it.
  
  We thought about quarantining Canada too, but then again, we need your hockey players (but your country doesn't have much use besides that).
  
  Those icky people eat snakes and cats, and it were the poor kittens in cages where SARS started out from.
  
  Right. And plenty of North Americans eat cows and chickens. What exactly is your point? I'm sure vegeterians find you "icky" too for eating meat. There's nothing inherently "different" in the meat in snakes and cat - but your close-mindedness simply believes so.
2. Re:Come on! its the chinese! by Baron_Yam · 2003-12-20 07:19 · Score: 1, Interesting
  
  Actually, I read that post not as flamebait, but as a humourously sarcastic detailing of what you'd likely hear when speaking on the subject to an alarmingly high percentage of the population.
  
  There are, however, certain justifications for claiming that asian and african countries in general tend to have attitudes that lead to the easier spread of disease.
3. Re:Come on! its the chinese! by aminorex · 2003-12-21 15:48 · Score: 0, Flamebait
  
  > There are, however, certain justifications
  > for claiming that asian and african
  > countries in general tend to have attitudes
  > that lead to the easier spread of disease.
  
  Yeah, like being really stupid. That's why we
  forgot that we invented money, paper,
  explosives, china, the compass, domesticated
  animals and agriculture.
  
  --
  -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
4. Re:Come on! its the chinese! by aminorex · 2003-12-22 11:06 · Score: 1
  
  Hehehe, racists are funny, and respondents
  are flamebaiters. ROTFLMAOASMOOMN.
  
  --
  -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
5. Re:Come on! its the chinese! by thunderpeel · 2003-12-23 04:49 · Score: 1
  
  We thought about quarantining Canada too, but then again, we need your hockey players (but your country doesn't have much use besides that).
  wow .. almost as close-minded as the origional posters comment about eating snakes and cats ...
  "What exactly is your point? I'm sure vegeterians find you "icky" too for eating meat. There's nothing inherently "different" in the meat in snakes and cat - but your close-mindedness simply believes so."
  
  --
  I really do know KungFu .. ..
6. Re:Come on! its the chinese! by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-25 07:38 · Score: 0
  
  There are, however, certain justifications for claiming that asian and african countries in general tend to have attitudes that lead to the easier spread of disease.
  No, there aren't. They may not necessarily have the facilities but to say that non-Westerners are inherently unhygienic is xenophobic rubbish. Besides, if I had 5p for every time a so-called "civilised Westerner" licked their fingers while cooking, re-used utensils from raw meat on cooked and failed to wash after using the toilet, I'd be a rich man.
Beagle by Councilor+Hart · 2003-12-20 06:07 · Score: 1, Funny

And I thought it came from mars.
Now, where did I leave my tinfoil mouthpiece?
Unlikely by spin2cool · 2003-12-20 06:18 · Score: 3, Informative

This "crossing" seems somewhat unlikely, since virus genomes do not do any sort of recombination that allows them to exchange genetic material. (unlike mammals, birds, and other things that reproduce sexually). The accumulation of random mutations is much more likely, especially considering that viruses have very few defenses agains mutation, and little, if any, DNA (or RNA) repair mechanisms.
1. Re:Unlikely by JediDan · 2003-12-20 09:05 · Score: 1
  
  I think that's the point: it started with one genome and possibly became so mutated that it crossed over to the other genome
  
  (Grats on the news post bro :)
  
  --
  - Dan
2. Re:Unlikely by mlush · 2003-12-20 09:05 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  since virus genomes do not do any sort of recombination that allows them to exchange genetic material.
  All you need to get recombination between virual 'species' is a double infection or a single cell ie a bird and mammal virus infect the same cell at the same time (an unlikely event but given the numbers of virus sloshing around happens from time to time). When they replecate there is a lot of 'naked' viral genomic DNA which spends a lot of time recombining with the host genome and each other (assuming they have sequences in common).
  The accumulation of random mutations is much more likely, especially considering that viruses have very few defenses agains mutation, and little, if any, DNA (or RNA) repair mechanisms.
  Absolutly true the virus has no repair mechanisms OTOH the host cell which they hijack to replecate in has all the DNA repair mechanisms it needs (I don't think there are RNA repair mechaninisms for obvious reasons).
  
  In any case the conclusions are based on sequence comparison it is very unlikely that a mamalian gene randomly mutated to look like a bird virus gene
3. Re:Unlikely by angel'o'sphere · 2003-12-21 12:36 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Sorry, but thats utterly wrong.
  Virus 'live' in animal or human cells. There are a lot of virus which are 'similar' to easch other. Especially influenza virus are of that kind.
  Its well known that pigs, humans, chickens and ducks and likely other birds are breeding ground for influenza virus.
  (In europe e.g. it is forbidden to raise pigs and chicken together in the same stable ...
  The reason is, chicken influenza virus can live and breed in pig and vice versa.
  Often they are harmless for the animals, but not for humans. If a chicken is infected by two different virus, the virus crossbreed, creating a new virus. Heck, what do you think from where every year the "new" influenza is comming from? And what do you think why you have to inoculate every winter again?
  Influence is likely the most dangerous virus on planet, with the most different strands and the highest "mutation" rate. What you call mutating is primaryly crossbreeding.
  I really wonder why a magazine like nature with that reputation calls that "speculative". Its a well known fact that SARS is a crossbreed of bird and pig virus, just like most influenza spreading every winter over north europe and north america.
  Crossbreeding happens in this way: a animal s infected with more than one influenza virus. So its cells create "virus particle". The virus particle combine to virus, just like Drexlers nanotech dream. They self assemble. During assembly all particles which are "compatible" combine, regardless of the source they sprang from. A lot dont 'work' as virus after wards, but some become completely new virus, often VERY dangerous.
  
  angel'o'sphere
  
  --
  Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
4. Re:Unlikely by Yazeran · 2003-12-22 01:32 · Score: 1
  
  Crossbreeding happens in this way: a animal s infected with more than one influenza virus. So its cells create "virus particle". The virus particle combine to virus, just like Drexlers nanotech dream. They self assemble. During assembly all particles which are "compatible" combine, regardless of the source they sprang from. A lot dont 'work' as virus after wards, but some become completely new virus, often VERY dangerous.
  
  Yep. As far as i remember, this is how the 'spanish influenza', which killed litterally millions of yong fit adults just after the first world war (1918 or thereabouts), got started. It is believed that it came from birds (more specifically chickens).
  
  Yours Yazeran
  
  Plan: To go to Mars one day with a hammer.
SARS not a danger much longer... by 7-Vodka · 2003-12-20 06:30 · Score: 4, Interesting

"But it raises some interesting points, such as a possible new bio-terror weapon."
No, actually the article does not touch on this.
But don't worry, in the lab where I work we already have a treatment against sars in production and nearing the clinical trial stage.
Sars won't be an effective bio-terrorism weapon for much longer. All you hypochondriacs can breathe a sigh of relief.

--
Liberty.
1. Re:SARS not a danger much longer... by CatGrep · 2003-12-20 08:52 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  ut don't worry, in the lab where I work we already have a treatment against sars in production and nearing the clinical trial stage.
  
  And where might that be?
2. Re:SARS not a danger much longer... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-21 16:12 · Score: 0
  
  All you hypochondriacs can breathe a sigh of relief.
  
  is this some kind of a sick (pun intended) joke?
3. Re:SARS not a danger much longer... by 7-Vodka · 2003-12-21 17:19 · Score: 1
  
  I can't really say, since I've signed NDA's etc. But depending how things go it could be ready in 1yr
  
  --
  Liberty.
4. Re:SARS not a danger much longer... by BiggerIsBetter · 2003-12-25 21:47 · Score: 1
  
  Yeh, but ready for whom? Will Xiao in Beijing have access to it, or just US military personale?
  
  --
  Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
5. Re:SARS not a danger much longer... by 7-Vodka · 2003-12-30 02:38 · Score: 1
  
  well everytime our CEO has spoken, she's said that if sars resurfaces in china before we have it ready, we'll have to explain to the chinese why it's not ready so...
  Look around you can find out who we are. We were the first to create a synthetic version of the spike protein from the sequence someone else had obtained.
  
  --
  Liberty.
Bio-terror? by OECD · 2003-12-20 09:24 · Score: 1

But it raises some interesting points, such as a possible new bio-terror weapon.
Not as I post this. Did something slip down the memory hole?

--
One man's -1 Flamebait is another man's +5 Funny.
artificial origin by ghettoreb · 2003-12-20 11:38 · Score: 1, Interesting

it's seems pretty probable to me that this might be of artificial origin, accidentally or intentionally

with the massive amounts of research we have going on right now with the virii (using them to fight cancer; finding cure for AIDS; studying influenza; sequencing virii's DNA) it's possible that we might have artificially produced SARS or have abused a population of some virus to the point that the population experienced a high mutation rate (e.g. if we tagged them with radiation-produced molecules, which is common practice for studying their spread in an animal)
1. Re:artificial origin by Aglassis · 2003-12-21 22:31 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  You said: " it's seems pretty probable to me that this might be of artificial origin, accidentally or intentionally
  
  with the massive amounts of research we have going on right now with the virii (using them to fight cancer; finding cure for AIDS; studying influenza; sequencing virii's DNA) it's possible that we might have artificially produced SARS or have abused a population of some virus to the point that the population experienced a high mutation rate (e.g. if we tagged them with radiation-produced molecules, which is common practice for studying their spread in an animal)"
  
  This is unlikely, since the SARS-CoV is not more closely related to any known type of coronavirus than any other. If it were a modified virus it should be very similar to a known class of coronavirus.
  
  --
  Suddenly, the hairy finger of a familiar monkey tapped me on the shoulder. It was time.--G. T.
Diploid viruses can recombine by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-20 12:34 · Score: 3, Informative

This may not fit the example of SARS, but diploid viruses like HIV can recombine with other strains in vivo.

I bet there will turn out to be other totally epigenetic mechanisms for a virus to be changed by the vector it travels though as well.
1st confirmed case of SARS in Newfoundland by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-20 17:42 · Score: 0

Newfie1: hey there me ol trout, didja hear aboot that SARS case they dun proved over in Gander?
Newfie2: yah, sure did. me sister Bertha, she got the sars neck and a sars throat.
*rimshot*
thank you thank you i'll be here all week.
U.S. GOVT involvement with SARS? by modpod · 2003-12-20 21:50 · Score: 2, Funny

i read somewhere that the us govt created SARS in the lab, and sold it to china to make billions. unfortunately i can't find the article any longer.. conspiracy theory or truth?
1. Re:U.S. GOVT involvement with SARS? by DroopyStonx · 2003-12-21 12:34 · Score: 1
  
  The parent might be marked as funny, and I first thought it was too... ...until I saw the labs with my own eyes...
  
  --
  We have secretly replaced these Slashdot mods' sense of humor with a rusty nail. Let's see if they notice!!
2. Re:U.S. GOVT involvement with SARS? by modpod · 2003-12-21 17:33 · Score: 1
  
  you've been inside fort detrick's germ lab?
use your fear by Doc+Ruby · 2003-12-21 06:38 · Score: 2, Funny

Harness that paranoia that makes all bioengineering equal bioterror, and probably all engineering = terror. Direct it to fear actual transgenic mutation migration. That genetically engineered food with genes extracted from other species is more likely to spew genomic pollution into other genomes, like yours. Then demand GM food labelling, so you can make your own decision of just what pollution you swallow.

--
--
make install -not war
There goes my Christmas BBQ! by RobertB-DC · 2003-12-22 09:26 · Score: 2, Funny

SARS is thought to have made the leap into people in the live-animal marketplaces of Guangdong province, China. Researchers have so far found the culprit virus in three animals from the markets: masked palm civets, raccoon dogs and ferret badgers.

Damn! There go my Christmas barbeque plans. How the heck am I going to keep up my reputation without my signature ferret badger brule' ?

I mean, Turducken is sooo 2002, and do you know how big a freezer you'd need for the leftovers from just one Stuffed Camel?

I guess we're going to have to fall back on the barn cats. Again.

--
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.