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MandrakeSoft Publishes Support Policy
joestar writes "MandrakeSoft has posted a statement about its product support policy on its website: 'At a time when some of the established Linux companies are turning away from their Open Source roots and progressively abandoning full-time commitment to Open Source Software, many people have asked MandrakeSoft to clarify its position regarding product-lifetimes and its Open Source development model.' As a result, this interesting reading provides 8 Golden Rules that lead Mandrake Linux development and product support lifetime. This certainly makes MandrakeSoft one of the most 'Open Source' Linux companies, and all Linux companies should maybe think about releasing such a statement."
4) Free as in 'Libre' and Free as in 'Beer'!
A download version of Mandrake Linux, consisting entirely of Open Source software, will continue to be released, provided without cost, and supported.
This is great news in my opinion. Any company that won't offer a "preview" of their product (like ISO's of a downloadable version in this case) will never earn my bucks. This is imperative if they hope to get me to join the club, buy the boxed set, etc. Besides, what I really want is a DVD so I don't have to swap CD's, so if I like the ISO's enough, there is a fair chance I will buy their power pack and get the DVD.
Granted that it isn't quite the Debian social contract [English version], it's still pretty good. I think that it is especially interesting that Mandrake, which is known, and sometimes derided, for being easy to install and friendly to newbies, is doing this.
Can I get OEM Suport for Mandrake products through Support/Service providers like Sun, HP, Dell etc?
Most large corporation like to have just one support contract from one major service provider (sun, dell, or HP etc). They don't want to manage several contract for the data center equipment.
One thing I like about RedHat is: OEM support for RedHat products is available from Sun and HP.
Consensus is good, but informed dictatorship is better
Please, choose either the "Free beer vs. Free speech" option, or the "Gratis vs. Libre" option, not both.
-3Suns
~~~~
The Revolution will be Slashdotted
It seems that clearly Mandrake is discovering its audience and is trying to distance itself from seeming anything near the debacle that SCO has become. With several of these "Golden Rules" (coincidentally released just now) it seems that they are practically screaming, "Don't worry, we're not SCO!".
I do like that these companies are doing this, though, establishing guidelines ensuring quality and the open source spirit of the product. However, doesn't saying "I will keep the software free" (thus respecting the GPL) sound like stating "I will follow the law"? It's great that you want to keep it free (if you do), but isn't it your obligation, as a Linux build, under the GPL?
And then of course, in the end, I'd simply prefer a quality product and perhaps something that I'm familiar with. A company can have the best tech support ever, but I'm not going to buy tech support as much as I'm going to be buying a product. They can have the greatest philosophy and everything, but I'm going to download what works foremost.
Just my opinion.
You're right, it isn't a statement that can be legitimately compared to Debian's statements. That would be because Debian is not a company.
I _love_ Debian. This laptop I'm writing this on is running Debian (Thinkpad 570, -unstable, to be precise.) One of the big wins with Debian is precisely that it can make such a social contract. Companies cannot, and stay viable.
That Mandrake is willing to go this far is a wonderful point for them, and we should applaud them.
I'm vaguely reminded of a time in college when I was lambasted for only offering a couple of hours a week at a charity. When I pointed out that dedicating more time would likely result in me flunking out, thus losing my loans, thus moving somewhere else and not being able to give a couple of hours a week to the project, I was ridiculed for lack of dedication.
I forget what 8 was for.
... if you include Fedora Core as a Red Hat product, with the possible exception of #3 (no change in product lifetime).
#1 - Software updates for all supported products. Note that anything older than Mandrake 9.0 is already not supported, and therefore they have no committment to provide updates.
#2 - Product lifetimes not hidden. The same is true for Red Hat, or at least it has been for the past year. The EOL of the 7.x series was announced way back in March or April, and was very easy to find.
#3 - Product lifetimes will not change. This one they may have on Red Hat. I don't remember the old lifetime for RH 7.3 or 8, but I did expect it to be longer.
#4 - Free as in libre and as in beer. True if you include Fedora Core - and Red Hat reps have gone on record saying that RHEL would have no future without the free distro.
#5 - GPL code. Same is true for Red Hat's installer, config and other tools. They're picky about trademarked names and logos, but all the code is open source.
#6 - Open source development. Mandrake Cooker was there first, but Fedora has picked up the same model.
#7 - Free Support. Note that they specifically mention "community-supported MandrakeExpert.com" - so Mandrake itself isn't pledging to provide anything more than the forum for other people to provide support.
#8 - Mandrake listens to you. OK, this one they may have too. On the Fedora Core lists RH seems to be responding to people, but there's always the "faceless corporation" side of things. This point could easily start a flamewar, so I'll keep out of it.
primarily for support of device related software running on sun or hp platforms. if i have a problem with the driver for an hp array controller, there's not much that mandrake (nor red hat) is likely to do about it. similarly, when i'm having trouble installing hp insight manager agents on a server, there's little hp is going to be able to do about it when you're running a distribution that they aren't 100% familiar with. when you have a vendor that will stand behind a product top-to-bottom, it counts for a lot. i wouldn't ever touch an os in a corporate data center that didn't have complete support for the hardware, and this almost always comes from the hardware vendors themselves.
Ask any MBA student on day one of classes: what is it that any company must do to survive? Of course, the answer is "profit." If you're asking, 'What about charities and non-profits?," then realize that even they rely on someone's profits. So the question for Mandrake, which has struggled mightily with finances in recent times, is whether a 5-year product life means a great deal when the company's welfare over the next 24 months is itself an issue. I like Mandrake and hope they will do well; I wonder, however, whether they have the teeth and bones, like RedHat, to profit sufficiently to improve and maintain their product whilst paying their developers, managers, accountants, et.al., a decent day's wages.
It's only funny until someone gets hurt. Then, it's hilarious.
Every bit of this can be applied to slackware.
This is simply the base ideals for any company/group that has a clue as to what linux is about, nothing more.
Kudos to them for publically saying that, but all of those reasons are exactly why I trust slackware only for my servers... Although Mandrake is my choice for laptops and desktops cince redhat's change.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Even for a publically owned company.
It's the goal pursued within ethical constraints.
The shareholders are the employers. No employer can ethically oblige you to be unethical, just as a soldier is not obligated to obey an unlawful order. Nor can a coach ethically require a team member to cheat in sports. Profit does not trump other ethical requirements.
Sure, the officer of a public company has an obligation to do right by the shareholders, but only to the extent that other obligations aren't shredded.
Mandrake, in many ways is the most like Debian of the commercial distros.
First of all is the commitment to an entirely free software distribution (with non-free but gratis software relegated to PLF, and non-free not necessarily gratis software available in a separate (aka Club/Commercial) repository). This is the main social analogue.
Technically, there is much that is similar. Mandrake uses the Debian menu system (since Mandrake is, along with Debian, a major distro that is largely wm/de agnostic). I believe the alternatives system is shared with Debian. Toss in urpmi, which is largely analogous to apt-get (with a slightly different feature set) and you might get the impression that, if Debian were to create an rpm-based distribution emphasizing ease of use, it would be very similar to Mandrake.
Hmmm, I happen to like Mandrake, and use it on 5 systems. What their government does is their governments concern (re: the French.) And, as a funny historical side note to your comment ...they will look back to the moment they threw their support behind a tin pot dictator and basically shitted on the idea of people living free from oppression.
You do realize that, a few decades ago, the United States of America actually "...threw their support behind..." Iraq (and it's "tin pot dictator") with weapons, training, and intelligence during the Iran/Iraq war?
With your pathetic RAH-RAH pseudo-patriotic post (AC, of course), you give the impression that we should Boycott anything and everything Italian, after all, they supported Hitler. Boycott anything and everything Japanese, after all, they bombed Pearl Harbor. Boycott anything and everything English, after all, they tried burning the White House. Boycott anything and everything insert any country in the world here because ALL government at one point or another does monumentally stupid shit.
So you just go ahead and fuck off with your ridiculous boycotts, and eat your "freedom" fries, and I will happpily continue using my "freedom" distro.
For those who describe their systems as 'boxen', do you order multiple 'boxen' of corn flakes also?
I just uninstalled mandrake 9.2 from one of my home machines thanks to your little press release. I am also regretting buying 9.0 retail not too long ago (which, supplemental to point #1, is your oldest supported version), and I'm no longer considering joining "the club".
Please do not bash other companies to try to make a buck in the name of integrity. I read through your 8 points and could not find one thing that Red Hat violates (I assume this press release is targeted towards Red Hat users). At the very least, the Fedora project is a community project with deep pockets thanks to Red Hat. They are not abandoning their heritage, instead it's a similar project with a different name. The only difference is now, in addition to the hundreds of Red Hat engineers working on the Fedora project, anyone else can contribute openly.
Conversely... I'm sorry, what is your oldest supported product again? Also while you say your are committed to providing a free product, your "download" link seems to have disappeared from your home page. Of course digging further reveals it, but then I'm provided with two choices in order to actually download a product:
I agree to support Mandrake Linux, please send me to the Mandrake Linux Users Club Registration page
or:
I'm already a member of the Club or plan on registering soon, please send me to the download page
Does that mean by downloading your free product, I agree to become a member sometime in the future?
fo0bar
(Please forgive my irrational tone. While I believe all I have stated here to be true, my annoyance has taken over my civility, and for that I appologize.)
I agree, Mandrake is a nice distro. I've been using it for several years and just installed 9.2. I've been using UNIX since 1982, GNU/Linux since 1995 and remember installing a device driver in 4.2BSD by manually editing the device switching tables and recompiling the kernel. So I'm not exactly a newbie. But I like a distro that installs easily and recognizes my hardware. I have plenty of other things to do than hassle with my installation, including installing all of the non-standard software that I use. I may do a pure source installation on one of my machines soon, for optimization and to get better acquainted with the current system, but except for that situation, I see no reason to shift from Mandrake. People who deride a distribution just because it is easy should get a life; its a silly form of machismo.
It just amazes me to keep seeing this anti-money attitude in the oss community. Open source isn't about giving away software. It's about freedom. This confusion is one of the main reasons I think that it should not be referred to as "free software" -- it fosters an uninformed and misdirected belief that if someone doesn't give their work away then it's wrong. It's not people. Get over it. MandrakeSoft is a strong supporter of open source and I, for one, hope they do survive and become profitable.
Anthony Papillion
Advanced Data Concepts, Inc.
"Quality Custom Software and IT Services"