India Plans Hypersonic Space Plane by 2007

MaximusTheGreat writes "While India has announced plans for a hypersonic plane (speeds greater than mach 5) before, this is the first time a firm date for test of an unmanned plane has been given. Final version of this plane called Aerobic Vehicle for Hypersonic Aerospace Transportation (AVATAR) is envisaged to deliver a 500 kg to 1,000 kg payload to low earth orbit. It will reduce the cost of space travel to a fraction to what it is today, by being completely reusable. Also, by allowing hypersonic speeds, it would for example reduce the travel time from Sydney, Australia to New York to less than 3 hrs. The crucial technology in the development of Hypersonic planes is supersonic combustion ramjet (scramjet). India has already demonstrated the basic technology of ramjets by the development of world's fastest cruise missile Brahmos which outspeeds famous US Tomahawk by three times, and by ground tests of scramjets. US, Australia and Japan are also pursuing similar programs."

Comments

Fall of Western civilization ?

[Krapangor]

With more and more scientific advancements in ex-third world countries, I'm starting to wonder if this is the often predicted end of Western civilization.
The Western countries have lost their population advantage long ago - there are much more Chinese and Indians than Europeans and Americans.
The military advantage is already gone in thecase of e.g. France or UK or is already decreasing like e.g. US and Germany.
The industrial advantage is also gone: most industrial consumer products are not produced in Western countries these days leading to the huge trade deficit of the US.

What is remaining is the technological advantage.
However, India and China are catching up.
The US has traditional 2 strategies to keep this advantage:

1. Sucking brillant minds out of 3rd world countries by getting them into the US via e.g. graduate schools.
2. Blocking advancement in 3rd world countries by covering every rubbish with patents.

However, both strategies are failing these days:

• Foreign graduates from India and China are in fact returning to htheir home countries. By this they are exporting the US technology there and creating unbeatable (cost !) conpetitors to US businesses.
• With reducing importance of the US in the world China and other countries are less and less willing to accept the US patent dictatorship - killing the exploiting by IP strategy of the US.

Bush tries to cover these facts by made up wars in the middle east. But the Iraq war wouldn't last forever and the US public will be forced to face their bleak future.

Re:Fall of Western civilization ?

[servasius_jr]

Dude. Where do I begin?

With more and more scientific advancements in ex-third world countries, I'm starting to wonder if this is the often predicted end of Western civilization.

Even if we accept the implicit assumption that so called ex-third world countries are poor and backwards -- even when the people are poor, often the goverment isn't, but let's not even get into that -- their success doesn't necessarily take anything away from us. If I'm rich, and my neighbor is poor, but becomes rich, his becoming rich doesn't automatically make me any poorer. If my toaster learns how to talk and perform higher maths, I don't become any dumber. It's not always a zero-sum game. Western civilization will not end just because India improves itself.

The Western countries have lost their population advantage long ago - there are much more Chinese and Indians than Europeans and Americans.

"Population advantage"? What's that? Numbers are an advantage? It seems to me that the British Empire had a pretty good run -- tiny little Island dominating huge and populous territories.

Most people aren't white like you. It's always been that way. And that's the real issue here, isn't it? Sorry, man, but you're going to have to get used to the idea.

The military advantage is already gone in thecase of e.g. France or UK or is already decreasing like e.g. US and Germany.

Add Russia, and you've got the five largest navies in the world; airpower is roughly the same. Also, the major shareholders in the Nuke club. Other countries may be able to field more rifles, but both Iraq wars have shown how useful that is against a technologically superior foe.

The industrial advantage is also gone: most industrial consumer products are not produced in Western countries these days leading to the huge trade deficit of the US.

Five largest economies: US, Japan, Germany, France, UK. I think the order is about right, but I'm not sure. You can look up any of this stuff for yourself -- the CIA World Factbook is good, and available online. If the GDP of 50 million or so Brits is bigger than that of a billion-odd Chinese, it stands to reason that the West still has a little industry left, eh?

What is remaining is the technological advantage.
However, India and China are catching up.
The US has traditional 2 strategies to keep this advantage:

Sucking brillant minds out of 3rd world countries by getting them into the US via e.g. graduate schools.

And then a lot of them go back home. Which is fine. I know it doesn't fit very well with your war-of-cultures mindset, but more educated people means a better world for everybody, regardless of where they're from, or whether or not they look and talk like you. And Universities have always been magnets for foreigners.

Blocking advancement in 3rd world countries by covering every rubbish with patents.

Yeah, with those magical international patents we have.

However, both strategies are failing these days:
Foreign graduates from India and China are in fact returning to htheir home countries.

How dare they? Whoever could have forseen this?

By this they are exporting the US technology there and creating unbeatable (cost !) conpetitors to US businesses.

Allowing them to sell us cool things at reasonable prices, while the US, with its tremendous combination of physical and intellectual capital, abundant natural resources, stable government, and military hedgemony lumbers on, lordly, unconcerned.

With reducing importance of the US in the world

Unproven, and unsupportable.

China and other countries are less and less willing to accept the US patent dictatorship -

They never really were, and that was never the point.

killing the exploiting by IP strategy of the US.

Uhh. . . yeah.

Bush tries to cover these facts by mad

I think that they could do it.

[dalek_killer]

Well India has more people with Doctorate degrees per capital than any other country in the world. So I could see India getting the plain up and running by 2007.

20 years for a jet fighter-how long for this one

[sphealey]

India has been working for more than 20 years on an indigenous jet figher to replace its Mig-21s, and also a jet trainer to replace its Hawks. The latest report: some Mig-29s and new Hawks have been rented "temporarily" from Russia and England to "fill in" until the local products are ready.

So - if it has taken India 20 years to produce some Mach 1.5 aircraft, how long will it take to produce a usuable Mach 20 spacecraft?

sPh

Re:India does something & nuclear angle comes

[MaximusTheGreat]

What agreements? NPT? which requires India to give up the nukes before signing? what's the point in signing.

By the way India has a declared No-First-Use policy, while USA has a declared Pre-emptive-strike policy. And, US has exercised that poilicy once, and with the new tactical nukes it plans to do so again and again.
which nuke power is more dangerous?

Re:Cool!

[wytcld]

Ever been to mississippi? Georgia? Alabama? Texas? Wyoming? These all have levels of povery that make places in Mexico and India look rich.

India has substantial private wealth in the hands of its upper and upper-middle classes. English rule largely left the princely fortunes intact - there are still many families in India worth 10s and even 100s of millions of dollars. And below them families which have hidden stashes of gold and jewels they've been amassing for centuries. The 100 million best off people in India have wealth comparable to the 100 million best off Americans - even though there are also the 100s of millions of Indians living in such often-total poverty.

As more immigrants come into America to drive down the costs of servants and menial labor, we will come increasingly to resemble India - palaces for the rich and squalor for the rest. America is a young civilization yet, India an ancient and wise one. There is much to learn from them, especially regarding the institution of a caste system. Let us not be too proud, as they show us the way to our inevitable future.

Re:Cool!

[jitenpai]

Do yourself a favor, and visit India before you make hollow remarks based on some one-sided documentary made 50 years ago, or on the CNN documentary you saw.

I grew up in rural India. Guess what? Not only BASIC, but much more than BASIC medical care is available for FREE if you go to a Govt. run hospital.

My sister's a doc in India. It's a private practice, and if she feels that her patient can't afford it, she does't charge them. And most of the docs in India have the same attitude. Do you know what a Hippocratic Oath is?. So if you are comparing the US medical amenities & cost to India, there is one huge component missing in the US... compassion. Don't compare apples to oranges.

From importing most of the grains in the past 30-40 years, India is now the world's largest foodgrains producer, the second largest fruit producer, the largest vegetable-producer, and the largest milk producer. India can not only feed its entire population, but it exports too. CNN didn't tell you that did it?

Another fact for the news deprived: India has NEVER had an expansionist ideology. Go read up some history. How about a few thousand years back from 2004? India has always been attacked before she responded in every single war since she was formed in 1947. Can you say I-R-A-Q? Who's a hippocrite?

Back to the topic... this is for the thought-handicapped:
If this project is successful, then India will be competing with Boeing and Airbus, never mind the military applications. How is that bad? Isn't that going to get more money into India? Was IT bad for India? The US refused to sell us a Supercomputer (one of the Cray machines) back in the 90s. Surprise, surprise! We built one that was faster and much cheaper than the Cray we were looking to buy for Weather Forecasting. Thanks a bunch US!

Then the US blocked the sale of some rocket parts from Russia. We built it from scratch. Thanks again US! We should be partners!! Oh wait, that pisses off Musharraf, the Chinese Commies, half the fucking Arab world... never mind, we can manage it on our own...

Would the US be self-reliant and the leader of the world if the politicians here threw up their hands and sat on their asses after all the US residents all had running water? You sound just like the geniuses who screamed "WASTE" when the US space program was launched.

Flaimbait? No, just an Indian who is fsking pissed that people can be so fsking unintelligent.

Re:India does something & nuclear angle comes

[donutello]

What a load of crap! How does such uninformed bullshit get modded up as insightful?

Which was the last "war" that the so-called war-mongering India has started?

Hint: The last war India has been involved in ended in 1972. In it's 56-year history, India has initiated military action only once and that was to help Bangladesh gain its independence.

Meanwhile the great benevolent non-imperial nations of UK and France continue to maintain their colonies such as Falkland Islands and the islands in the South Pacific that France likes to blow up with nukes whenever it feels like pissing off the Aussies and Kiwis.

And I won't even begin to dwell into the economic imperialism that Europe is imposing upon Africa. European nations also have a long way to go before they can be excused for the mess their greedy exploitation and subsequent hasty departure has left in large parts of Asia and Africa.