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Astronomers Find Sun's Twin

mroch writes "Space.com is reporting that astronomers may have found a solar twin -- a star almost exactly like our own Sun. Interesting tidbits from the article include: "The star, 18 Scorpii, sits about 47.5 light-years away in the constellation Scorpio, and has long-been suspected of being Sun-like. [...] The star burns slightly hotter than the Sun, at 5,789 degrees Kelvin compared to 5,777 degrees. It appears to rotate slightly faster than the Sun, taking 23 days to complete a rotation rather than the Sun's 25." It boggles my mind to think that we can measure temperature that exactly from 279,000,000,000,000 miles away, and that they are complaining over a 12-degree difference."

18 of 132 comments (clear)

  1. Measuring temperature at great distance by Frans+Faase · · Score: 5, Informative

    Distance actually does not matter with respect to the method used to measure the temperature, as long as you have enough light, and there is no disturbing medium in between. Both conditions seems to be met.

    1. Re:Measuring temperature at great distance by lars-o-matic · · Score: 2, Informative
      quibble:
      stars are perfect emitters/absorbers (aka "black bodies")
      "Perfect", they're not. Spectral analysis relies strongly on the presence of emission / absorption lines. That's how helium (from Greek word for "sun") was discovered: by its emission lines in sunlight. I'd call those "imperfections", even though they're the most useful features!

      Yes, you can measure temperature by the blackbody component of a spectrum, and a nice, hot plasma's spectrum has a very nice blackbody curve overall.

      "Go read up" -- them're fightin' words... :-)
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  2. They use spectrometry to measure the heat by ObviousGuy · · Score: 2, Informative

    They can determine the temperature by the wavelengths of light given off by the star.

    And those dozen degrees are in Kelvin. These aren't your ordinary units of measurement we're talking about.

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    1. Re:They use spectrometry to measure the heat by ottawanker · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, 12 a degree difference in Kelvin is the same as a 12 degree difference in Celcius.

      Really, you shouldn't use the word 'degree' with the work 'Kelvin' as in the case used in the Story. It's preferable to write simply 5789 Kelvin.

    2. Re:They use spectrometry to measure the heat by Nos. · · Score: 2, Informative
      Whether the measures are funny depends on how you look at it I guess, as 373K is as arbitrary as 212F for boiling water. Not to mention you have to memorize arbitrary names like nano and deci in the metric system.

      Actually, if anything Kelvin is a lot less 'arbitrary' than Farenheit. Kelvin is based on Celsius, with the only difference being the 0K is absolute zero (there are no negatives on the Kelvin scale). Celsius is based on wanter. 0 for freezing, and 100 for boiling. Unlike F, which is loosely based on the body temperature of a feverish woman.

      So, if you look at it, Kelvin is anything but arbitrary when you are referring to state changes of water.

    3. Re:They use spectrometry to measure the heat by drakaan · · Score: 2, Informative
      Celsius is based on wanter. 0 for freezing, and 100 for boiling. Unlike F, which is loosely based on the body temperature of a feverish woman.

      Well, unless I'm mistaken, water has different boiling and freezing points at different pressures..."less arbitrary" is probably not as good a description as "more consistent on earth at sea level".

      Kelvin, being based on Celsius, (which is arbitrary because it's boundaries are defined by the reaction of a substance that is only reliable under specific conditions...pressure of about 1 atmosphere) is arbitrary as well make 1,000,000 degrees kelvin equal to the temperature of the hottest observable radiating body in the known universe (or something equally sensible), and I'll agree that it's not arbitrary...for a while ;)

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    4. Re:They use spectrometry to measure the heat by GeoGreg · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, 1/100 of the difference between the freezing and boiling points of water at sea level is more closely tied to a measurable physical quantity than the Farenheit scale, but the size of the degree is no less arbitrary. It's just an artifact of using a base-10 numbering system. If I were Babylonian, I might use a temperature scale where the boiling point of water is 60 degrees instead of 100. Here's the definition of the SI unit kelvin, courtesy of the US National Institute of Standards and Technology: The kelvin, unit of thermodynamic temperature, is the fraction 1/273.16 of the thermodynamic temperature of the triple point of water. Gotta love 1/273.16!

  3. Measuring a star's temperature. by DjReagan · · Score: 4, Informative

    IIRC, the temperature is measured by the colour of the sun. That doesn't change the further away you get, so its just as accurate over long distances as short. However, there is the problem of dopler shift if the stars are moving away/toward each other.

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    1. Re:Measuring a star's temperature. by Dr.+GeneMachine · · Score: 5, Informative

      Doppler shift should not be a problem, you can always determine the shift rate from the known frequency of certain absorption lines in the spectrum and reference your spectrum to those lines.

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    2. Re:Measuring a star's temperature. by Idarubicin · · Score: 2, Informative
      IIRC, the temperature is measured by the colour of the sun. That doesn't change the further away you get, so its just as accurate over long distances as short. However, there is the problem of dopler shift if the stars are moving away/toward each other.

      True, with minor nitpicks. Temperature is indeed based on careful spectroscopic measurement of colour. However, intervening interstellar dust will slightly redden the appearance of more distant stars. (Shorter, bluer wavelengths are scattered more effectively by dust than longer, redder wavelengths.) Consequently, a correction must be made for this.

      Doppler shift is virtually a non-issue. A few kilometres per second will have an essentially negligible effect. Faster relative movement is readily corrected using known features of stars' spectra--hydrogen absorption lines, for instance, will always appear at the same wavelength, allowing a correction to be applied to the rest of the spectrum.

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  4. Kelvin, not degrees Kelvin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    nt

  5. Re:Degrees Kelvin, not Kelvin by ottawanker · · Score: 5, Informative

    From The U.S. Metric Association

    The kelvin (K) temperature scale is an extension of the degree Celsius scale down to absolute zero, a hypothetical temperature characterized by a complete absence of heat energy. Temperatures on this scale are called kelvins, NOT degrees kelvin, kelvin is not capitalized, and the symbol (capital K) stands alone with no degree symbol. [In 1967 the new official name and symbol for "kelvin" were set by the 13th General Conference on Weights and Measures (CGPM).]

  6. 50 closest, closest matches to the sun by nimblebrain · · Score: 5, Informative

    I like David Nash's list of 50 nearby sunlike stars within 50 light years.

    18 Scorpii is on there, as is the infamous Tau Ceti. 18 Scorpii was one of the four closest matches.

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  7. Wrong distance... by understress · · Score: 2, Informative

    Actually, that distance would be more like 2.7862056^14 miles.
    186,000 miles/second x 60 seconds/minute x 60 minutes/hour x 24 hours/day x 365 days/year x 47.5 years.

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  8. Re:I don't believe it, how can they possibly know? by PaSTE · · Score: 3, Informative

    Astronomers look at the spectrum of the star--the relative intensities of each wavelength of light produced by the star's heat. Assuming the star is a black-body radiator (which isn't totally true, but pretty darn close), using first principles you can solve for the temperature of such and object as a function of the peak wavelength of light radiated. See "Thermal Physics" by C. Kittel and H. Kroemer for a better discussion.

    Also, single wavelength filters (like your green sheet of plastic) aren't a natural byproduct of nature, and wouldn't be found between here and the aformentioned star. What would would find, however, is interstellar dust, or clouds of hydrogen, helium, lithium, and other light elements. When the light passes through these clouds, certain frequencies of light are absorbed, and certian frequencies are flouresced, but these frequencies are predictable, and the overall shape (and especially the peak) of the spectrum is not changed beyond recognition. "Introduction to Quantum Mechanics" by D. Griffiths and "Introduction to Astronomy and Astrophysics" by Zeilik and Gregory should help you out with spectra and spectral lines.

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  9. Re:Political Wings Explained:for the hard-of-think by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 2, Informative
    The "right wing" is the Establishment and the "left wing" is the anti-Establishment. Therefore in a conventional Western democracy, "right wing" refers to capitalism (and liberalism?) where that is the Establishment, and "left wing" refers to radical alternatives like Communism, Anarchism etc.

    No.

    "Left" and "right" have their origins in the seating arrangements of a pre-Revolution French parliament. Nobles sat on the right, commoners (or rather, their representatives, who weren't quite so common) sat on the left. Thus, generally, being on the right was to support the privileged class; being on the left was to support the common people and more equality.

    In their modern forms, the right supports (and usually hopes to join) the "privileged nobles" of the capitialist class, those to whom the state has granted control of the means of production; the left seeks a more equitable arrangement, supporting the rights and interests of the "common" laborers.

    Properly, "right" and "left" refer to economic arrangements. Using them to talk about the orthogonal political dimensions of legislated morality and foreign policy results in great confusion.

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  10. Re:Interseteller Probes by ajagci · · Score: 2, Informative
    From NASA:
    Eventually, the Voyagers will pass other stars. In about 40,000 years, Voyager 1 will drift within 1.6 light years (9.3 trillion miles) of AC+79 3888, a star in the constellation of Camelopardalis. In some 296,000 years, Voyager 2 will pass 4.3 light years (25 trillion miles) from Sirius, the brightest star in the sky . The Voyagers are destined--perhaps eternally--to wander the Milky Way.

    This answers the question of what advances are needed. Basically, we need either laser-powered solar sails, or we need antimatter propulsion. Even then, the trip would still take a long time and be enormously expensive.
  11. Re:I don't believe it, how can they possibly know? by Alsee · · Score: 2, Informative

    What if something in between the star and Earth is changing the wavelength of the light? I can shine a light-bulb through a green sheet of plastic, and change it

    Wrong. Your filter can reduce the brightness at various wavelengths, but you CANNOT(*) change the wavelength. You can forget about brightnesses and calculate the temperature by measuring frequency behaviours.

    (*) Footote: Yes, there are a handful of materials that can double or halve the wavelength of light, but there is no way in hell an enormous windowpane of some obscure mineral is sitting between us and another star - and if there were then we would blatantly see frequency doubling or halving.

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