Open Watcom 1.2 Released

An anonymous reader writes "Open Watcom 1.2 has been released and is now available for download from the Open Watcom website. This release contains a large number of new features, product enhancements and several fixs designed to bring Open Watcom to a higher level of quality and compatibility. SciTech software Inc, the official maintainers of the Open Watcom project, have also announced the availability of an updated Open Watcom CD, complete with SciTechs installer for DOS, OS/2, and windows. Support for the update will be handled exclusively through the Open Watcom website. Read More." According to the web site, "the Watcom C/C++ and Fortran products will be the first mass market, proprietary compilers to be Open Sourced."

Comments

Is it worth it?

[Sklivvz]

This tool compiles for various Win32/16 flavors plus dos and os/2. It doesn't do Linux or PPC/PalmOS... that are the two platforms where you really wanna cross compile!
Do you people think it's a worthwhile product? Has it retained the value it used to have back in the day when most DOS games were compiled using Watcom?

Re:Is it worth it?

[Tagren]

They are working on an Linux version:

http://www.openwatcom.org/about/info_content.htm l

" Since then the developer community has been working hard to get the next release of Open Watcom prepared, including ports to Linux, FreeBSD and the inclusion of the STLPort package."

One could say what is the point of starting the fsf/gcc project. It dont run on anything other than what the devs started on... At the time they started working on it I mean.. not now :=).
---

Re:Is it worth it?

[zozie]

OpenWatcom is there for Linux too, you just need to compile it from source code.

It's already 100% functional as a cross-compiler
(from Linux too DOS/Windows/OS/2 but still not there yet as a native compiler: it has to use it's own libc and cannot output ELF objects (only ELF executables). The debugger works too, but
symbolic debugging only works with OW compiled
executables.

That means it's fine for statically linked plain ANSI C executables on Linux but does not integrate very well with the GNU toolchain, X libraries, ....

Ahhh, the old days

[JMZero]

I would have paid good money for a free Watcom back in about 1992. Well, unless it was free that is, then I would have kept my money. Watcom was big news back then, and seemed to have all the features my Borland C++ 3 lacked.

Is this still a useful product for people? Is the Windows support going to be good enough that it will supplant any of the other development options a Windows user has?

Most importantly, does it support Expanded and Extended memory?

Re:Ahhh, the old days

[pwroberts]

>> Most importantly, does it support Expanded and Extended memory?
> I *believe* it comes with a free DOS extender, so yes. It certainly has support for several (once-)common ones.

From the Open Watcom site:

"Free DOS extenders included!
Open Watcom C/C++ and FORTRAN includes a number of royalty free and Open Source DOS extenders right out of the box. Thanks to Tenberry Software's gracious donation, the original DOS/4GW DOS extender from Watcom C/C++ and FORTRAN is included royalty free with the Open Watcom compilers. Also included is the now free CauseWay DOS extender developed by Michael Devore. Both binaries are included as well as complete source code in the source archives. Finally we have also included the free PMODE/W and DOS/32A DOS extenders as part of the package."

--
Paul

Re:Why does this get put on the frontpage,

[vasqzr]

The Watcom compiler was a very popular DOS C/C++ compiler. Combined with DOS4GW from Tenberry (formerly Rational Systems), it was used to create many DOS games such as Doom. Traditional DOS compilers were only 16-bit tools whereas Watcom was 32-bit

SciTech scooped up Watcom's goods. They're also behind MGL, wxWindows, SNAP for Linux, Display Doctor, and GLDirect.

Back in the day....

[teambpsi]

This was THE compiler to use with RTLINK/plus to build protected mode video games -- okay, protected mode anything

and the only reason we used protected mode?

BIG RAM BABY

thanks to the (in)famous 640k 'barrier'

though to some extent i'm not sure how relevant the toolset is today....

DB?

[baldass_newbie]

Any chance of the DB going Open Source? Or is Sybase holding that too close?
I think that would be a great tool to have in Windows. Give MySQL a run for its money and could kill Access on the desktop.

Re:DB?

[hey!]

Any chance of the DB going Open Source? Or is Sybase holding that too close?

There's zero chance.

RDBMS is the core business at Sybase. They'd have to completely redefine the company and its businss model. Watcom C++ is something they ended up with by pure accident, and were wise to unload.

Watcom was acquired by PowerBuilder as part of the deal which got them Sql Anywhere (pretty much comparable and competitive with Interbase that begat Firebird). PowerBuilder needed a fairly robust database for the same reason Borland coupled Interbase with Delphi. PowerBuilder at one point threw Watcom SQL into some of their PowerBuilder configurations, and may have used parts of it in their native code generation. However, it wasn't really very key to their product strategy, it's just something they got with SQL Anywhere.

Sybase, during one of its more feckless management period, puchased PowerBuilder. I don't know why, probably so they'd have a RAD platform to compete with Oracles forms products. In the process the obtained SQL Anywhere (nee Watcom SQL) and Watcom C++.

SQL Anywhere was a secondary acquisition they got with PowerBuilder, but it actually (in some twisted way) made sense, since its low footprint allowed it to be deployed on mobile devices, giving Sybase a "small" database engine to compete with Oracle's "Personal" database, the way Adaptive Server Enterprise competes with Oracle's flagship database. They rechristened it Adaptive Server Anywhere (although they may have re-rechristened it yet again, since they seem to be very schizo about what they call this product). They also spun off a separate company to promote ASA in mobile apps.

Watcom C++ was not only not a primary consideration in the PowerBuilder acquisition, it wasn't even secondary. It doesn't fit in with what Sybase does, even in a wild flight of imagination. Furthermore, by that time even they had no illusions that they might compete with Microsoft in Win32 compilers.

So, in a rare fit of enlightenment, they opened the source rather than abandoning the users. One of the few product management decisions they've made that I agree with. It makes perfect, selfish sense: there's no value in maintaining the product, but they don't want to alienate customers. So just pass the buck to somebody who wants to maintain it, provide a little engineering help to extricate pieces with license problems, and write the expense off as PR.

Re:DB?

[larry bagina]

your logic makes perfect sense. Unfortunately, this is slashdot. They should open source their DB and make money by selling support contracts.

Re:DB?

[mobiGeek]

Which RDBMS do you mean:

Adaptive Server Enterprise

Adaptive Server Anywhere (formerly Watcom SQL)

IQ

Ah....MySQL and Access, you must be talking about ASA. I suspect it unlikely that ASA become open source in the foreseeable future as it is one of the key products of iAnywhere.

ASA is a much more feature rich and powerful replacement for both above mentioned database-like repositories ;-).

For those who don't know, ASA runs on a multitude of platforms (Palm, CE, Linux, Solaris, AIX, HPUX, OS X, and that MS-Windows thingy). It has very mature synchronization and replication technologies. [Note: I may be somewhat biased on the subject ;-)].

Thinking about that old stuff...

[JMZero]

...really puts in perspective the rate of change in computers. It's been a long time since I thought about what I was going to use extended memory for, or strategies for getting a block right on a 64K line (for use in DMA) without wasting space. I suppose in a few years, it will sound just as hokey to be thinking about how you were going to connect to a database.

I didn't know anyone on the BBS's that had Watcom (or knew much about it beyond its memory setup), but most of us wanted it (everyone noticed it in the Doom load screens). Perhaps having it available will usher in a new wave of retro programming from my generation.

Well, there's always GCC ...

[Chromodromic]

... if you're a code masochist.

Maybe I'm going out on a limb here, maybe I'll be the lonely voice in the wilderness, but for general purposes outside of a learning tool, I can't stand GCC. Why? There are so many reasons, I just don't know where to start.

I hesitate a little to say this because everyone seems to speak so highly of it, at least everyone that I've ever heard. But I'm sorry, the Emperor has no clothes. Whenever I start a compile on GCC I can go downstairs, have dinner, watch an episode of the Simpsons and come upstairs to check on its progress, where the same compile on Borland (yes, I know, it's PROPRIETARY), or for that matter MSVC will have been done for quite some time. And with fewer complaints, moans and bitches from the compiler. And yes, I know full well that those moans and bitches are important, yadda, yadda, and maybe if I watched my warnings and cleaned my code, yadda, yadda, but call me crazy, call me wacky, I just like it when a compiler does its job and shuts up, unless it really has something important to say.

Watcom is great, open, cross-platform, and cool. Do yourself a favor and use it. Just do it -- no! NO! Zip! Zip it! Shut! Zip! Zippity zip!

Re:Well, there's always GCC ...

[larry bagina]

it's unfortunate that valid criticism gets censored. Pretending gcc shits diamonds won't make it so.

Fact is, gcc uses more memory -- a LOT more memory -- than most other compilers, especially when optimizing. That makes it much more likely that you'll have to hit the swap file, which of course, kills your speed.

Another problem is GNU make, while more flexible and powerful than the make systems for borland, msvc, etc, is also much slower. If you use something like jam instead, you'll see build times drop significantly.

Re:But is it usable?

[91degrees]

Lots of people seem to agree with you, but for some reason, I've never worked out what it is that it doesn't do. Personally, I'm quite fond of it. The main reason for this is I'm a screen space miser, and It's one of the few IDEs that comes with a full screen editor.

Re:Why would someone use Watcom rather than GCC?

[zozie]

Compared to current gcc's it's
* a very fast compiler (compile-time speed)
* that produces very compact code (in terms of size)
* so the generated code *may* even be faster than gcc's (if a loop just fits in the cache), despite the fact that gcc has quite a few more years of optimization improvements now.
* it also feels more native on non-UNIX platforms
(whatever that means ... gcc on Windows has a ported feel, some people don't like that, some others don't mind or like it)
* can generate 16-bit code, useful for bootloaders (and FreeDOS :)
* even supports "far" (48-bit) pointers in protected mode
* all in all very good for embedded and driver work IMHO

on the other hand GCC is much better now in terms of standard compliance (in particularly C++); OW is slowly catching up a bit, has a more extensive warning system, supports SSE(2), custom Athlon and p4 optimizations, profile guided optimization, supports many other CPUs,
etc etc.

Not really "open" source

[some guy I know]

Unfortunately, the site has some really annoying webcode that prevents me from downloading it.
I'd have to either enable JavaScript, which I refuse to do, or spend 15-20 minutes decoding the JavaScript and making my own fake responses, which I also refuse to do.
Does anyone have any mirrors?

Re:But is it usable?

[mobiGeek]

Sybase bought Watcom years ago because they wanted Watcom SQL

Actually, Sybase acquired Powersoft in 1995 for its application development tools (e.g. PowerBuilder). Powersoft had acquired Watcom in 1994 specifically to add an RDBMS to their product line.

There were industry rumours of Sybase dropping SQL Anywhere (formerly Watcom SQL, now Adaptive Server Anywhere) early on after the 1995 acquisition, but nothing beyond apparently.

The ASA engineering group (Waterloo Ontario) and ASE group (Dublin California) have worked together on joint projects, but the two products remain independently architected and developed. The main joint task forces seem to work(ed) on adding T-SQLisms to ASA and on the IQ product.