Neural Feedback Training as Therapy for ADHD?

jamesh asks: "I asked Slashdot (anonymously) a while back about my daughter, who has been diagnosed with ADHD. The Ritalin has made a lot of difference but things are still not quite right, and she has developed various vocal tics (grunting, odd little noises, words and so forth... think Tourette's Syndrome, only not nearly as bad), which is one of the side effects of stimulant medication. She's now a lot less of an outcast and appears able to better interact with other kids, but we're still looking at alternate treatments. It may be the trendy new thing, but we've now started down the road of neural feedback therapy. Does anyone out there have any experience in this treatment? First hand 'I've tried it once and it changed/ruined my life' anecdotes would be great, but if you have a child, friend or acquaintance who has been through this treatment, it would be really useful to hear about their experiences." We also discussed ADHD treatments in another related Ask Slashdot but I don't see any mention of such a therapy in that discussion. Has anyone heard of studies or reports on patients of Neural Feedback Therapy?

"If you haven't heard of it, the idea is that by attaching sensors to the head, brainwaves can be measured, and by providing visual feedback, you can actually train your brain to regulate its activity. An ADHD person supposedly has a brain which isn't very good at keeping itself in 'concentration' mode. In a child, the feedback takes the form of a game or in the case of an infant, a pleasing pattern on the screen (an infant would probably be treated for sleep disorders, not ADHD, in case you were wondering). When the brainwaves are in the 'right' state, the game proceeds or the patterns get prettier. When the brainwaves are erratic, it all slows down.

Because it is a trendy new thing, it's been put forward as a possible treatment for many other things including sleeplessness, epilepsy and other disorders, but one of the better successes has been in the treatment of ADHD.

The whole thing sounds quite plausible, but it is also quite expensive. All of the stuff I've read has been either from the suppliers of the treatment, or from people trying to discredit it."

Comments

Not a disease

[__aavhli5779]

Pardon my ranting, but this issue hits rather close to home.

I'm of the opinion that ADD/ADHD is not a disorder, and should never be "treated". Perhaps having been prescribed various stimulant medicines which shortly turned into an addiction, which in itself transformed into dependency on methamphetamine (which I finally quit in March thanks to Rational Recovery) has influenced me in distrusting chemical treatment, the idea of treatment at all, and, most importantly, the disease model that most people seem to apply to Attention Deficit, but perhaps it is just from having been someone who could very aptly be described as the "Poster Child" for ADD.

Based on the experience of myself and many others, I have come to the conclusion that Attention Deficit is not a disorder inasmuch as it is a different form of thinking and interacting with the world which can have both its downsides and its blessings. We may have trouble in the standard school and work paradigms that most seem to be able to deal with successfully, but we also tend to be very insightful, creative, and interesting folks :)

I always call attention to the fact that many of our greatest minds, a perfect example being Albert Einstein, would today have been diagnosed with ADD, prescribed stimulants, and had the insights that they would have otherwise shared with the world snuffed out and replaced with mindless conformity.

Please consider changing your daughter's school, and adapting her environment to her very special mind, instead of trying to cram a square peg into a round hole and possible damage her intellect forever.

Re:Not a disease

[Creepy Crawler]

I've learnt the similar thing in school. Even before I was in kindergarten, I was reading magazines, newspapers and the like. There were, of course, words I wasnt sure of, but I figured them out between my parents and a dictionary.

Well, when I get to school in kindergarten, I blew everybody away. Most was starting on their ABC's and counting. I was pretty much bored to death. And I was ancy. Having a 'teacher' (I use this word very loosly) who was one of those high-strung IHATECHILDREN types didnt help much either.

Needless to say, they called in the psych people and demanded that they put me on drugs and psycho-therapy. My parents put their foot down hard and told them to fuck off.

What you have here is a teacher who wants all their kids to be is little blobs who sit down and shut up.

I learnt something else from that early age: School isnt the place of learning. Perhaps that also ruined me, as I never had to study to ace a test or somesuch.

Re:Not a disease

[Anonymous Coward]

I love the line about Einstein. We can say all kinds of theories about the dude because he's now dead, projecting anything on to him.

Proper treatment of ADD is *not* just enough pills to "calm them down". Proper treatment of ADD is a variety of coping mechanisms, with stimulants being one of them.

In fact, having ADD and being prescribed Ritalin, I have accomplished far greater things than I would have were I to not have been medicated. Now that I am on my own, I still have found it to be beneficial, both for work, and for play.

Re:Not a disease

[amishdisco]

I would steer clear of anyone with such a vehement position on this issue, as it is a serious one. To deny someone the benefits of proper medication is to bar them from realizing the full potential of their intellect. Yet be cautious, do your research, and examine other alternatives if undesirable side-effects overwhelm the benefits.

You may want to look into Strattera, as it lacks the addictive properties of other ADHD drugs. My only noticable side-effect on it has been a focused mind - something I've coveted for a long time.

Re:Not a disease

[RabidMonkey]

And maybe you should stop ranting like a tit.

I didn't get a 'fuck the system' vibe out of his comments - they were clear, consise and backed up with personal 'evidence'.

Just because you dont' agree doesn't make him wrong. Any more than it makes you are wrong because you think taking drugs makes you a better person.

And don't try and unload on me - I've done the drugs for ADD, and I hated myself when I was on them so I'd flush them and tell my parents I took them. I have since learned 'coping strategies' that the public health people used to teach me and they work just fine. I have learned to recognize that I am drifting out of focus and correct if I need to. I also let my employer know that I am prone to ADD and that I am in fact still working even if I look like I'm not.

I agree with the parent - drugs aren't the way to go. but if you feel they work for you, thats great.

But thats still no reason to be a tit about it.

Re:Not a disease

[MBCook]

THANK YOU.

I believe I posted something about AD(H)D not being a disease in one of the earlier Ask Slashdots. I firmly believe that it is not a disease. The fact is that AD(H)D is simply not the normal way people think or act, and as such has been labeled a disease; which prompts people to look for "cures" to the behaviors.

Now I wouldn't be at all suprised if neural feedback therapy would work, but I agree with the parent comment that it's not needed. I suggest you look into the parent post and think about whether you think your kid really is a problem, or it's just a "doesn't fit into the current education model".

First, I'd like to refer you to my pervious comment in the origional discussion. That said, I have one other thing. I would like you to read "The War Against Boys". Buy it ($14 I think), check it out at your library, whatever. Now I realize that your child isn't a boy, but one of the things that the book talks about is how public schools are becoming designed for "girls". By this I mean the classic little girl who always sits quietly and pays attention and such. Kids who do not fit this mold often have problems or are labeled troublemakers or as AD(H)D kids or other such things. I think an alternative schooling environment may be the best thing for your child. A perokial school, a private school, maybe there is even a school that specializes in AD(H)D kids in your area; because as you know they often just learn differently. I think reading this book might help you realize what I suspect is going on: you child doesn't fit the mold and so other people (school administrators/teachers for example) are trying to "help" you make her fit that mold. A quick look at the table of contents shows that I think chapter 7 is for you, but I could be wrong about that.

PS: If something above is unclear, just reply and I'll be glad to answer you. And if you /.ers out there if you disagree with me or think I'm an idiot, I'd really appriciate it if you'd just reply and tell me. I'll read it.

PPS: I said this in my last comment and I think I might have gotten modded down for it, but I'll say it again. I would suggest you call Dr. Laura and ask her about your situation. She's VERY good at helping you figure out where to go on issues like this. And I can garuntee she only has your child's best interests at heart when she gives you advice. She is a licenced Clinical and Family Therapist (I think that's the term), so she knows what she is talking about.

Re:Not a disease

[rjpcal]

I have to agree with the previous poster. Anything that affects the better part of 20% of the world's population isn't properly classified as a disorder.

The prevalence of myopia is about 25% among the adult population in the USA.

Does that mean it's not a disorder, that instead of wearing glasses we should have the other 75% be restricted to a minimum font size of 48pt (or preferably 96pt given my own ability to read my CRT from inches)?

Sure, one can argue whether it's better to view the ADHD or myopic population as falling inside one tail of a bell curve rather than having a qualitatively different 'disorder', but either way -- if there are treatments to improve the quality of life for those people, where's the problem in that?

Re:Not a disease

[canadian_right]

Would you tell someone with diabetes to stop taking insulin because you don't think it is a "disorder"? Of course not. But as soon as someone has a problem with their brain then it must be a lack of will power, or moral degeneracy. Couldn't possibly be an organic problem.

That said, it is best to combine proper training, coping mechanism, and other therapy with the drugs. And don't stick with the first drug you try. A good Doctor will arrange to try a few different drugs to find the one that is most effective with the fewest side-effects. Also, arrange for a "drug holiday" once a year if it is a "mild " case. Many people are more able to cope without medication as they mature and learn more self-control. But don't feel bad if you (or your child) have to continue with drugs all your life. You wouldn't feel bad if it was insulin.

Re:Not a disease

[jamesh]

Analysis of a 'typical' ADHD brain shows one part of the brain going really slow, and another part going fast (sorry, don't know the actual names of them off hand). The theory is that the fast part is going fast to compensate for the slow part, but in doing so causes the 'problems' we associate with ADHD.

Stimulant medication, so the theory goes, speeds up the slow part, thereby allowing the over compensation to stop and the brain to function 'correctly'.

You site a few examples where ADHD is a positive thing, but completely ignore the fact that for some people it is an incredible disability. My two year old daughter has more sense than the seven year old when it comes to day to day tasks.

I respect and value your input as someone who has been treated with stimulant medication. But maybe you didn't have ADHD, but were in fact a smart kid who was just full of energy. It is fairly obvious when someone is taking a too higher does of ritalin. And for someone who doesn't have ADHD, any amount is too much. Seriously, if you don't have ADHD, ritalin will make things worse. One of the things we were told about neural feedback is that we'd have to watch her ritalin dosage, as once her brain patterns move towards 'normal', the amount she's on now would probably be too much.

Albert Einstein is dead. And i doubt you knew him personally. He may well have been given stimulant medication if he were a child alive today. It may well have numbed his mind (if he didn't have adhd), or it may have turned him from super genius to super-duper genius... maybe he would have finished that grand unified field theory thing he was working on. The fact is though, we'll never know, so bringing it up is just a little pointless.

I am pretty sure that all the examples you can find of stimulant medication causing problems, are cases where adhd was not the correct diagnosis. I would love to not have my daughter taking Ritalin, but it's the lesser of two evils at the moment and I will argue with anyone who says it doesn't have its place. For some people it's the difference between happiness and being able to interact with people, and the horror of social isolation.

Re:Not a disease

[jamesh]

It is not unreasonable for a teacher to want the kids in their class to shut up and sit down. Just because you know everything doesn't mean that half the class is desparately trying to understand what is being taught. A kid who takes up 80% of a teachers time because in class is one thing, a kid who does that but already knows it all is purely wasting the teachers time, and depriving everyone else of an education.

I got very self centered about this somewhere along the way. If I was bored in class it wasn't my problem. It was somebody elses. I guess i've come to realise that school _is_ a place of learning, provided you are able to learn at the prescribed rate. I wish i'd had the presence of mind at that age to just say to my teachers: 'I can sit at my desk and cause a distraction while you ramble on about stuff I already know, or I can finish my work, sit down out of the way and read a book quietly. How do you want it?'.

Re:Not a disease

[Afrosheen]

First off, fitting in is overrated. Many of the luminaries, great scientists and great leaders stuck out from the herd based on their own merits. Many of them never fit in anywhere, and thus took paths that branched from the average person.

Believe it or not, we're not all created equal. Some people are more 'gifted' than others in many different ways. What society and hack psychologists perceive to be a sickness or disease can be a great asset with the right application.

Unless you kids are autistic, don't fuck with them. If they can't pay attention in class, put them in private schools where the curriculum is more challenging. Nine times out of ten kids who screw around, draw and doodle, clown around instead of getting work done probably aren't being challenged. I know, I was one of these kids. When they finally did some standardized testing the school system discovered that kids like myself were 'bright' and were bored with average work. Once you get into something more advanced and difficult, you pay attention and do work.

I have issues with the current American school system still, because it aims to average the students out. Rather than having some dim and some bright bulbs, they all glow with the same intensity. Also most public schools promote regurgitative learning rather than comprehensive skill sets. Hence you get students that cram before the test, pass it, but don't understand what they've learned. School becomes trivia, and trivia is rarely interesting or engaging.

I hope I have 'gifted' children, because I'll understand them and hopefully will be able to challenge them in ways they'll later appreciate. They won't get hours of television; they'll get books, technical manuals, things to build. I'm not anti-television or anti-entertainment, I just believe that the way I taught myself was valuable and want to give my offspring the same opportunities.

Experiment

[Mieckowski]

I've actually tried the sofware, as I have an uncle that's into this stuff. I couldn't seem to "train" my brain waves in the short time I tried it, though. And those sensors pressing on your head HURT after a while :(

Doctor

[dedazo]

My man, you need to talk to the doctor. Doctor. Several of them, if you want. But you're not going to get much wisdom from a bunch of people who start their posts with "IANAD".

Seriously, I'm sorry this is happening to you and it sucks, but go talk to someone who knows how to help you. Please.

Stop Ritalin

[(eternal_software)]

I don't know about the Neural Feedback Training, but I'd suggest finding an alternative to Ritalin ASAP.

There are many studies out there about the inefficient conversion of ALA To EPA and DHA in people with ADHD, leading me to believe that pumping your kid full of stimulants is a (very) wrong answer.

Try Mercola.com, which has some very informative articles on ADHD. As a start, make sure your kid isn't having a lot of sugar and caffeine (ie drinking fruit juices and soda).

Done the drugs, chose something better

[RabidMonkey]

Let me start off by saying thank you to the poster for not settling for a drug treatment. I am a very very outspoken anti-drugs for ADD person. As a child (starting at 4) I was diagnosed as ADHD (1982, so not in the middle of the 'every kid has ADD' phase). I would only sleep for a couple hours a night and the rest of the time I'd just rummage around my room, tearing off wallpaper, throwing things around or generally harassing my parents.

They put me on ritalin when I was about 6 after giving up on training me, and found it didn't work - it actually made me more hyper.

Thats when they moved me to Dexadrine. For the americans out there, it's the same drug some people use to lose weight. It immediately worked, helping me focus and not be so wired.

The downside was, I was moody and depressed. I was anti-social and angry a lot. but I was 8 and people didn't care really. They wrote it off as depression because my parents broke up. But when they took me off the pills for the summer, life was grand again. I was energetic to a fault and had lots of friends. Come school time, back on the drugs and back to quiet, boring, socially acceptable me.

Fast forward to highschool and I'm still on the stupid things. September was great, I'd start taking the pills and wouldn't eat for a weak (about the only upside to em, great weight loss). But around that age you start to become more self aware and I realized that I hated myself because I wasn't really me. I took these stupid pills every morning and I became who my parents and teachers wanted me to be, but I wasn't really me. I didn't laugh as much, I didn't talk as much, but I got good grades.

Around grade 11 I said 'fuck this' and started to not take the pills. Then my parents started threatening me and grounding me if I didn't take them. So I'd pop them in my mouth then spit them out. Then they started to check my mouth to make sure I swallowed them. So I found a new trick - you could pull apart the gel caps and all the little balls of medicine inside would fall out. So I'd quickly dump them on the floor or sink then take the pill. That worked well and I started to feel more like myself.

Except then my grades started slipping.

So thats when I turned to the psycho babble they'd been teaching me at my semi montly sessions. They called it 'coping strategies' and taught me how to recognize when I wasn't behaving well or focusing like I should. Instead of just throwing pills at the problem, they put me in control of my life and said 'these are the tools to make things better for you, but you need to do them'. They made me responsible for my behaviour and grades.

So I started with them. At this point I can't identify what I do, but my friends will notice when I *click* in and out of focus now. Apparently I'm much better and I can recognize when I'm having ADD moments. Sometimes I have ADD days. I've learned to work with instead of against the ADD. I now run dual monitors on my PC so I can do more than one thing easily. my desk has lots of distractions on it, but they're all little. I can jump from work to a distraction for 30 seconds to give my brain a break then back to work. I can focus much better now that I've learned these skills, and I dno't need pills to make me work well.

So, the moral of this story is that pills aren't necessary. They inhibit your mental and social and emotional growth by turning you into a little robot. I found that I could actually feel myself in a little tunnel when I took them and things seemed duller. Teaching coping skills is, I think, the key. Teaching your child how to recognize when they're not paying attention is the first step, then teaching them how to focus when needed, and let their mind go when not needed. If this Neural Feedback Training does that (and it sounds like it does), then go for it! Don't spare any expense ... just think of it as being amortized over the life of your child ... just pennies a day!

Asking a doctor...

[Erratio]

There are several posts in this conversation saying that jamesh should just ask a doctor. Obviously their advice should be heeded (and the more diverse qualified opinions the better). Keep in mind that most doctors will not recommend the type of treatment that he's asking about, at the very least since it's their ass on the line. Also ADD is an interesting thing to ask a doctor about since their opinions are probably as diverse as the people in this discussion. I would recommend findind a doctor that's slow to prescribe.

I think he knew what he was asking for in this forum.

You're conclusion uses faulty logic

[rtilghman]

I have acute ADHD. When I was last tested (in college) I came out with like 17 of 18 characterics or something. I have been off and on various medications over the course of my life, including ritalin and dexadrine.

The problem with your argument is that it mistakenly assumes that treating the symptoms of a way of thinking and brain activity (loss of attention) inherantly involves the loss of any creativity n the same person. Essentially you draw an conclusive connection between two characteristics with NO evidence to support that conclusion.

According to your logic a "life of the party" guy who gets treatment for alcoholism will no longer be fun or interesting, because it is the alcoholic "party guy" component of his personality that makes him interesting. Isn't it possible he is an outgoing and interesting person who happens to be an alcoholic? And that he will STILL be so, sober or not?

What if many insightful and inventive people happen to have ADHD, but not all ADHD people are insightful and inventive? Isn't it actually both possible and likely that treating the lack of attentiveness will allow a truly creative person to concentrate on and further develop the creative ideas he comes up with?

In my experience I have found that this is the case. I am, like you state, a fairly creative and insightful person. I'm the kid who disassembled teh family television to figure out how it worked, who learns a new technology in ten minutes to help someone else, etc. When I take a methamphetamine like ritalin or dexadrine it just allows me to focus VERY deeply into whatever i am doing. Instead of doing something else every 30 minutes I can sit and churn out the same thing for like 3 hours at a go.

Yes, there are side effects, and I SPECIFICALLY don't like ritalin very much (it makes me feel like I'm tripping and makes me very socially uncomfortable). However, for someone whose productivity is that of a gnat without it the treatment offered by Meths is a god-send.

I'm sorry if you have an addictive personality and you fell into a hole as a result of a meth prescription. However, I see that more as a personal problem you had and not an indication of the merits or general problems associated with methamphetamines. Ironically the only people I've seen who get addicted to meth drugs are people who AREN'T ADHD positive (like some of my friends in college). ADHD folks usually couldn't care less.

-Rick

Re:ADHD is not real.

[Erratio]

I think the problem with ADHD which somewhat invalidates is that it's far too broad. 10 different people with ADHD could have 10 different causes, 10 different collections of symptoms, and 10 different ideal solutions yet they're too often lumped together and treated the same way. That's why so many people in this discussion are able to say "I have ADD/ADHD and my situation is different from everyone else's". And that's why so many people that were treated for it wish they never had been.

All idiocy stops here... I have taken this therapy

[MarineAir]

Hello,

First, let me start off by saying that I have in fact taken this "feedback" therapy, or, more accurately known as EEG/EMG biofeedback therapy.

A little background information on ADHD... trust me, I've done my homework on this as I have the condition. The strongest medical explaination of ADHD (which encompasses the former ADD... more later) is a rapid decline of oxygen metabolism in the prefrontal lobe during periods of thought requiring concentration. This kind of conditition can lead to two forms of ADHD: inattentive and overactive... I happen to fall into the former category. Basically, EEG waves can be measured through the skull/scalp in the picovolt range by use of an amplifier connected to a small probe stuck to the scalp by use of electrolytic gel similar in consistancy to vaseline. When EEG signals are filtered, they can be separated into waves in the .1 second duration and .5 second duration. ADHD individuals show a marked amount of "slow" wave amplitude over "fast" wave amplitude.

Someone mentioned earlier in the post that he was unable to alter his brain function in a short period of time; a just statement. I attended therapy for nearly 3 weeks after diagnosis before seeing any kind of large changes in brain activity while concentrating. The excercises used started off with concentrating on an object in a video monitor to mentally "push" it along... and later was changed to academic study of exceedingly boring material. As my scores improved, so did the quality and depth of the notes I wrote during a timed interval of study.

Now, coming down to it. ADHD is usually a male-dominant trait, passed from father to son... explaining the vastly larger amount of males with the condition.

I specifically did NOT choose drug therapy as it would have prevented me from service in the Marine Corps. Simply put, I'm a rock in a traditional education environment, but continue to score in the 130 range with reputable IQ tests. My doctor in fact was the person who encouraged me to satisfy my "thrill seeker" personality (which is somewhat common in ADHD individuals). Since my diagnosis, I continue to be a United States Marine, having endured training such as aircrew school and SERE, and now get to fly around in KC-130 tactical aerial refueling aircraft as a Crewchief/Flight Mechanic. I have also attained my private pilot's license, parachute jump license, and have started racing a stock RX-7 in autocross. Major "Pappy" Boyington of the Black Sheep squadron was also of the ADHD personality. What can I say? It feels good to go fast.

It is my firm belief that your daughter does NOT need stimulant therapy, and would benefit from the somewhat unconventional EEG biofeedback therapy. If you contact me privately at my email address, I will be happy to converse with you over the phone about my doctor and how to contact him for more information.

Hope this clears up any doubts you had about this somewhat unconventional therapy method

Cheers

Life is a disease

[Trolling4Dollars]

With the amount of people out there doping up to try and avoid every sign of being human, I would definitely consider a second or even third opinion on the ADD diagnosis. I seriously hope that there has been more than one opinion. I can't say because I don't know your situation.

If my folks would have taken me to a doctor as a kid because I spaced out on the gym floor, I would surely have been diagnosed with ADD. But the real truth is that I wasn't a jock.

Going back to my first statement (about people doping up for everything under the sun), think about it:

1. I've got a few age lines in my face. Solution? Inject toxin just under the skin to make it swell and fill in the wrinkles for a few months!
2. I've got reflux (probably the fallout of too many antibiotics and a bad yeast infection in the digestive tract) disorder. Solution? Get the purple pill that costs an arm and a leg and I will have to stay on for life lest my symptoms get worse.
3. I'm going bald. (Hey... we all get old eventually) Solution? There's just too many to go into, but I'll point out that the list of side effect for Propecia is mind boggling. Especially the one that says to not even TOUCH Propecia if you are pregnant!

I'm not denying that there ARE people with problems out there. I'm not even saying that this guy's kid may not have problems. But let's step back a bit. Back to the time when kids were allowed to be kids. When they didn't have to "perform" in a certain way by a certain age lest they be considered "freaks". Hell... most of us were considered "freaks" but I think we fared pretty well over our lifetimes. Haven't we? The first thing I would say is that this child may just normally be less social and more introverted. Is that REALLY a problem? Do we REALLY need to drug people who just don't get on well with other people?

The other thing is the expectation people place on their kids these days. And the ridiculous level of activity kids are expected to be involved in. (Baseball, Soccer, Football every F*cking day?!! WTF?!) Kids should be allowed to do things like sit in the backyard baking mud pies or making snowmen. They should be allowed to make "chemistry sets" with water, food coloring and old bottles. They should be free to dig holes in the ground in hopes that they will reach whatever it is they believe to be on the other side. But most of all they should be allowed to dream. Because those dreams will take them farther than any drugs they are getting pumped into them.

Easy to say if you don't have it ...

[adventuregeek]

Both myself and my S.O. have been diagnosted with ADHD and find that the "your just":

A. Undiciplined
B. Lazy
C. Just different
D. All of the above

(take your pick) explination really fustrating. You really don't know what it's like until you've been in our headspace.

Now as for medication. I agree in a perfect world being intellegent and ADHD would be great. We could be the thinkers, excentric scientists and artists. Unfortunately we live in a world that demands that we "stay focused" and have great "organizational skills", so the practical considerations must be taken into account.

That being said I belive there is an over diagnosis in children (hey kids are a real PITA and can be hard to manage) and an under diagnosis in adults. I wasn't diagnosed until I was 31 since I have found many ways to cope and be successful.

Oh look something shiny ...
(couldn't resist that one)

Different theories

[SdnSeraphim]

It is facinating reading all of the different theories revolving around the two camps. ADD/ADHD IS real and ADD/ADHD IS NOT real. The is not real have "helpful" ideas such as: Turn off the TV. Kids will be kids, let them be. It causes Tourettes, addiction, panic attacks, dumb children, more idiots, drug society. The hardest falsehood to overcome is the one that is only partially or potential true. For example, Tourettes syndrome can be aggrevated by Ritalin. However there are children taking it to alleviate the symptoms of the syndrome. The other concerns are all possible, but not ALWAYS a problem. Many people who say it does not exist do not have it themselves, and do not know someone suffering from the affliction. I was totally anti-drug, anti-ritalin before I met my wife. She was diagnosed while before we were married. I was against her taking Ritalin (she was still in college). She, fortunately, disagreed. Her school performance inproved dramatically as did some associated conditions such as depression and anxiety (depression because she was failing and anxiety because she could not change it no matter what she did or how she studied). She is not addicted, in fact hasn't taken it for quite a number of years. She developed some coping skills that were as important as the ritalin. As with most medicine, it works for some people, dramatically. For some it works without major side-effects. For others who have this affliction, let us hope there is an alternative. For those that don't have this affliction, let's hope they or there parents have a clue and not medicate something that is normal. However, to say it doesn't exist is mere elitism from those that are not afflicted. Something along the lines of a white person living in a majority white country saying there is no racism simply because they don't experience it.

Re:Not every ADHD sufferer agrees with this statem

[FsG]

and my mother wasn't being driven crazy by an overactive 5 year old

I think this hits at the heart of the problem, and the real reason such drugs are being overused nowadays: 5 year olds are supposed to be overactive. From the time they can walk, all non-human mammals are running around, playing/fighting with one-another, etc; this is extremely important, as those that don't get regular exercise and learn precise muscular control will soon become prey.

21st-century humans, however, are being put in school at extremely young ages. When they're supposed to be running around, getting exercise, and having fun, they're forced to sit in classroom and stare at a book. Naturally, the teacher can't do her job when the kids won't sit still, so the school will pressure the parents into giving these drugs to their kids.

Damn right 5-year-olds get distracted, and why shouldn't they?

Over diagnosis - the problem

[spoco2]

"That being said I belive there is an over diagnosis in children"

And this is why, I think, there are so many of the comments you hear... because there are so many 'problem' children who are just labelled as having ADHD to explain disobedience.

My parents were foster parents for many years while I lived with them, and they were often sent the 'problem' children as they were seen to be excellent in handling them. I remember one girl in particular who came to us labelled as having ADHD and a 'handful' and unable to focus or be handled.

Within ONE WEEK my parents had her happily ensconsed reading books, playing with toys etc. for ages at a time with no drugs, no fancy methods... just good old parenting, and a firm hand where required. (I don't mean physically a hand as such, I mean sticking to your ground when you say things like "No, you can't have that" or such things... not giving in to demands etc.)

So very many cases are like this, and it's THOSE cases that cause you the grief... I can't help but have the same feelings about most ADHD diagnosed kids because just so many of them have nothing wrong, it's just a convenient out for parents... which is wrong of me as there are real issues at hand here, but until doctors stop throwing the label about willy nilly, the stigma will remain.

Re:Do you realise Ritalin is Speed?

[sigwinch]

In the case of someone who has ADHD, they lack a certain brain chemical. Ritalin replaces that brain chemical to normalize the level in the brain and help with ADHD.

I'll believe that shite when I see a comprehensive proof, including gene sequences, protein morphologies and chemistries,and a comprehensive simulation of the brain in question. Given that placebo tends to have an efficacy rate around 30% for mind-altering drugs, anybody making statements about chemical imbalances is talking out their ass. The drug clomipramine causes some people to have orgasms when they yawn. What, those people were low on the come-when-you-yawn neurotransmitter?

Truth be told, nobody has much of an idea WTF happens to make the brain do anything, nonetheless what causes it to do odd things. "Research" involves randomly cooking up new chemicals in the lab and seeing what they do to living brains.