Slashdot Mirror
Saturn V Fallen on Hard Times
n9fzx writes "The best remaining artifact of the Apollo Program, Huntsville's Saturn V, is 'pocked with pits and cracks, and patches of mold and mildew', having survived for forty years outdoors. Alabama's U.S. Space and Rocket Center is trying to raise a measly $5 million in order to preserve the beast, with $1.5 million in the kitty so far. Paypal, anyone?"
It should have been used! I assume this is a complete rocket and not a replica, and when the Saturn V's were in service probably could have been launched. It is too bad it was allowed to wither away. I assume that it was abandoned along with the other remaining Saturn V rockets when the moon program was suddenly terminated and the focus shifted to the low-orbit space shuttle.
We used to drive past that rocket whenever we would travel to visit family down in New Orleans.
It looks big in person... looked even bigger as a kid... truly an impressive sight.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
If Stephen Baxter could use the Saturn V for a one way trip to Titan, I see no reason why we can't use it for Mars instead! Baxter has even done the research :-)
And just for the record, yes the book does drag, but it also has a great story of a dilapidated American space program doing something heroic which I found a tale worth reading.
Oh wait, that doesn't make sense at all.
Too bad I don't have an extra $1.5M lying around somewhere. Maybe I could talk to Capital One about raising my credit limit? ;)
Anyway, it was truly a remarkable construction. Everything about the Saturn V was huge. From the buildings involved in construction to the enormous crawler built to haul the damn thing. We're talking an absolutely massive scale... In fact, according to the history channel's show Modern Marvels, the only human-produced sound louder than a Saturn V at lift-off is the detonation of an atomic bomb.
It is a historical irony that space exploration takes second place to mass destruction in decibel output, though. Perhaps that says something about human nature?
"To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit." -Stephen Hawking
Only has a Thrust To Weight of 1.5 (compared to >2 TW on a Eurofighter)
Weighed 5 million pounds fueled
Main engines burned for less than 2.5 minutes
Was travelling 6,000mph at burnout
Was slightly more fuel efficient than a Crystler SUV
Beep beep.
I really can't get my head around how a society could undertake such a massive project as Apollo, then fail to preserve the artifacts for future generations. Heck, I am a future generation. I was only one year old when the last Saturn flew. I've seen the Saturn V in Houston, it's really astonishing. I can only imagine what it would look like standing next to the LUT.
Slashdot monitor for your Mozilla sidebar or Active Desktop.
Actually, since you can see it while driving on the freeway, I think it's cool that it's outside. No need to buy a ticket to get in the space center. 1.5 million over 40 years isn't that bad. That's like a stock broker's income for the same time period, ignoring inflation.
This seems a lot of money to preserve what is mostly a large metal tube. What are they planning on doing that will cost that much? It's a museum piece so the components don't have to be kept in working order; it just has to look intact wherever they are visible.
Input error. Replace user and press any key to continue.
I used to work (until about 1.5 years ago) pretty much opposite the Johnson Space Center in Houston. They have a Saturn V outside there - I often took people who came to visit me to JSC, and we'd have a look around the rocket park.
It's an impressive thing up close. From our parking lot at work, it didn't look that impressive. But when you got up close to it, it was another story.
However, the Saturn V at JSC is also in pretty poor shape - it's corroded right through in places if you look closely. The white paintwork on the CM is badly cracked. Apparently, it also became a home for some owls (which is not a bad thing really).
The best artifact inside JSC is an Apollo capsule that went to the moon and back. You can actually (or could when I was last there) touch the heat shield - it's neat touching something that's been to the Moon and back. When you look at it closely, with its primitive electronics and its small size, you wonder how they ever did it.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
Twenty years ago that may have been the case. But it is extremely easy to imagine a robot with stereoscopic high definition cameras beaming data back to earth to virtual reality helmets.
Alot of space travel fanboys are going to say "it's not the same as being there."
Maybe not, but these people need to get a sense of reality. Former astronaut (and senator) John Glen estimates it will cost one trillion dollars
Does Bush have a sense of reality? "He wants to build like a space station on the moon, and then from the moon, he wants to launch people to Mars," David Letterman observed. "You know what this means, ladies and gentlemen? He's been drinking again."
Really though, it's like his other programs. He announces it, but only throws a token bone to fund it. He expects others down the line (as yet unknown how) to fund it, but he wants to take the credit early on. Smart politicing in a campaign year. The 1 billion a year extra for Bush's mars initiative is great if you are going to build the rocket out of paper mache' and not much else.
Incidentally, his father announced the exact same thing when he was president, so this is nothing new either. Look where that went.
Also, any number NASA gives you to accomplish something, multiply it by three to come up with the actual cost, as they never are able to keep a program on budget.
The only reason to go to mars would be because it's "neat" to go. But the reality many people decline to admit is that it would bankrupt this nation if we were to throw all the money at NASA that they would need to do it.
I say that we need to "make do" with "neat" robots.
And as congressman Barney Franks smartly noted "If they want romance, let them buy Danielle Steel books. It's much cheaper than going to Mars."
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
Having fond memories of the Huntsville Space and Rocket center from my youth, I recently went with my wife and a friend. We were shocked to find the entire place in utter disrepair. Most of the rockets on display outside (including the Saturn V) were visibly rusted with many completely rusted through in spots. Most of the paint was either flaking or so sun-damaged that it would come off on your fingers with the slightest touch. Not only was the rocket park essentially a scrap heap, but the museum seemed to be now devoted almost entirely to military technology. One exhibit, the "future warrior" exhibit was particularly disturbing. I hate to think that one of our country's biggest sources of pride has shifted from scientific progress and exploring frontiers to the presumption that we are a bunch of badasses who can annihilate anyone who crosses us.
One thing that stikes me every time I drive through southern states (North Carolina,South Carilina, Georgia, Alabama,etc) is the compete lack of public self-respect. Especially on the major highways. Each state has tons of sites to see and even sites woth seeing, but you wouldn't guess it from the highway.
Instead of seeing the museum as an expense they should view it as a moneymaker ($tourism). Alabama politicians must be just plain stupid to let the U.S. Space and Rocket Center fall apart. Maybe the federal government should step in and confiscate these national treasures?
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
Why, if the rocket is owned by the U.S. Government (I believe the rocket is owned by NASA and leased to the center) and the Rocket Center, which is owned by the State of Alabama on U.S. ground (Marshall SFC / Redstone Arsenal), are they going to private sources for funding of this restoration? There is a little thing called taxes which are already diverted to the center.
... older kids went to "Space Academy") when I was there was the oldest piece on the training center floor. I kid you not, it was so badly wired that it caught fire inside the electrical panels (the structure was hand-built and mostly wood and wires). No, not just once ... but at least 3 times just while I had kids in it (and I watched one of literally dozens of teams most weeks). The answer was always to evacuate the kids, put out the fire, replace any bad wires, and open it back up for the next time. I'm not kidding ... the place should have been shut down by the fire marshall and sued by parents. And yes, we brought this to the attention of management on a regular basis as did the maintenance staff.
...
Also, it is largely the Rocket Center's fault that things got so bad. I worked there for 2 years as a counselor about a decade ago and the condition of the exhibit then was the same as it is now (minus another 10 layers of paint and mildew/moss/etc). Guess what their idea of maintaining the exhibit was to go out every year and paint over the past year's mildew with a new layer of paint. Anyone who knows about paint, mold and mildew will realize what decades of overpainting will do. I'm sure that covering the exhibit with a simple structure like a tent-roof, while expensive, would have cost less than $5m when they first set up the exhibit, even counting for inflation since then, especially if they had leveraged their relationship with the army engineers on Redstone Arsenal.
Of course, the USSRC had very short-sighted management throughout the time I worked there as well as for at least a few years before and after I left. They continuously had smaller exhibits break down and their maintenance was horrible. They had great exhibits, but didn't do a good job of keeping them up.
Other examples? Sure:
* The simulator used for Space Camp (elementary age
* Most of the other rockets in the park have a similar problem and undergo the same painting "refresh". The difference is they are mostly upright and so it is not as visible (and they're alot smaller). Except for their shuttle mockup, which is going to have the same issues in a few years as the SV exhibit.
* The Shuttle tank usually has pennies and pencils stuck in it from kids tossing them into it. They usually clean them out about once a year. Not sure what the solution for this would be, but even a sign saying "hey, please don't deface this exhibit" would have been useful.
* The "centrifuge" exhibit/ride continuously broke down. It sometimes was down for a week or more. It was very popular, but instead of getting a real overhaul one year they just shut it down and scrapped it.
Additionally
- Space Camp programs, during the years I was there, brought in a tidy profit. However, the museum was in such disrepair that it was a loss center. So, instead of Space Camp programs being able to expand and fix things properly, money was diverted to the museum to keep it afloat.
- During the years I was there it was standard practice to lay off everyone they could during the holiday months. While this is practical it also had the add bonus (to the center) of marking all of us as Seasonal employees. This meant that we didn't have to be paid benefits.
- Along with no benefits, even though some counselors had been there for years, there was also no overtime. Think that being scheduled for 80+ hours a week (a few of us worked 2 programs, and I know of at least 4 people including myself who -averaged- 80 hours in the summer and sometimes hit 100 hours
It is more productive to voice thoughtful opinions (reply) than to judge (moderate) others.
This is getting out of hand... /. thread, I've read about Saturn V rockets in Houston, Orlando, Huntsville, and Kennedy Space Center.
In this
(I saw the one at KSC last summer... spectacular and very well kept. Bigger than I imagined.)
I thought there were 3 Saturn V rockets, from Apollo 18, 19, and 20.
Can anyone clarify??
Thanks.
$7.95/mo, 200 GB disk, 2TBxfer, MySQL, PHP, RoR.
Estes still makes and sells a Saturn V kit, but a small outfit in CO sells a bigger version, with instructions in MPEG video form on CD-ROM:
http://www.apogeerockets.com/Saturn5.asp
I spent one evening in the mid-90's at the Kaffeeklatch--Huntsville's premiere blues* emporium. Ended up sitting with a few folks who after a sufficient quantity of alcohol, voluntereered that they worked in the space program, and that their undertanding was that in addition to the hulks on display at the Huntsville museum and elsewhere, there was supposed to be *another*, complete Saturn/Apollo system, carefully mothballed and maintained in one of the huge underground bunkers at the Redstone Arsenal. The idea was that if something unexpected happened (like the Russians going to the moon and setting up a weapon of some sort), the US could, on about six months' notice, get someone back to the moon. Just once. Seemed at the time like just about a wild enough story to be true.
*For those who've never been to that part of the country, you bet blues is alive and well in the heart '0 Dixie. Seems to have become color-blind as well. As an example, go check out Microwave Dave and the Nukes
How is that at all relevant to the fact that we need to service Hubble now? It's not like the costs of servicing it (which is supposed to be a regular thing) and the costs of launching a replacement are even comparable. NASA even admitted that they aren't refraining from servicing Hubble for cost reasons. We will lose Hubble if it isn't serviced, and then we would have nothing until 2010, assuming that the successor is even launched at all. In fact, at one point Nasa even stated that they want to bring it down in 2006.
Why is losing Hubble now and banking on an uncertain replacement better than just keeping it up there, doing useful work?
Disclaimer: IANAL. This post is, however, legal advice, and creates an attorney-client relationship.