Gimp 2.0 Pre 2 Released

Paul Kucher writes "A second preview of GIMP 2.0 has been released. From gimp.org: "Lots of bugs have been fixed since the last release and you are encouraged to try the new pre-release. It is now available from ftp.gimp.org or from one of the mirrors. Plug-in authors, please consider to port your GIMP plug-in to the 2.0 API. Now is a good time to do that." I have posted some screenshots here."

Comments

What I don't like about the Gimp

[ObviousGuy]

Why don't they use a master window to contain all the other child Gimp windows? Every window floats free and disappears and reappears as application focus changes.

Taking a clue from Photoshop, the Gimp could be made much more user-friendly just by adding a simple window frame around all the controls and sub-windowing all the other windows.

Re:What I don't like about the Gimp

[SchnauzerGuy]

Maybe it is a (bad) design decision, or perhaps it is related to this: Adobe Sues Over Tabbed Widgets

Re:What I don't like about the Gimp

[caseih]

This is in part a design decision, and partly due to the traditional nature of the gtk widget set. Essentially there is no MDI in gtk, for good or bad. Part of the solution to address this multiple window out-of-control problem is the dock idea that they've come up with. I configure gimp to just have one window (the default is 2, but you can easily rearrange it into one) that has the tool palette and all the other things I need docked to it. It's very dynamic and customizable. Sections can be added, tabs added, etc. That one window is always on top. Then my picture windows float next to it. That way I get the best of both worlds. I don't need another application to take over my entire screen like photoshop does. I prefer the windows. Except for the fact that the dock thing can only be vertical (having it horzonal at times would be nice), I think this is superior to the photoshop-style ui.

Besides that, I've always maintained that anyone who runs apps full screen (which you pretty much have to with MDI apps) really isn't using a windowing system to their best advantage. MDI is rapidly falling out of favor. MS no longer uses it for many applications and MacOS never ever did. Tabs work well for most things, although images are better off in windows. Anyway, the interface on gimp is light years ahead of the old interface! Now if only glade could get a similar interface makeover.

Re:What I don't like about the Gimp

[Anonymous Coward]

I've always maintained that anyone who runs apps full screen really isn't using a windowing system to their best advantage.

I have to disagree here. Perhaps if you have some insanely large desktop it's worth it, but at 1024x768, there simply isn't enough room to have more than one productively sized window for most applications. All you end up doing is wasting the edges of the screen real-estate and cluttering the "background". Grabbing and resizing an image window in the GIMP is noticably slower for me if there's other windows behind it with their own window decorations to distract. What I usually end up doing is shoving all my GIMP windows onto another virtual desktop to "emulate" a proper window. It still sucks, only not as much.

Re:Is it time.. . .

[BlueEar]

My overall impression is that GIMP has been designed by highly qualified geeks, but geeks nevertheless. I think it would benefit immensly from a usability expert input. A number of solutions chosen is far from intuitive. While the overall capabilities of GIMP are excellent, it takes some getting-used-to time. Once the initial "who the hell thought that right click plus Ctrl is a natural solution for this operation" types of experiences are over, you might be pleasantly surprised by the power of GIMP. Overall, this is one software that I woulde definitely recomment reading books or tutorials before using it. Ah, and yes, I find that 1.3 series and now 2.0 release candidates have some improvements in usability over 1.2 version. Dockable dialogs and a much better menu systems just to name a few ...

Re:Not yet for Windows...

[jpsowin]

Since I just downloaded the pre2 release for windows and ran it, I will assume you are incorrect ;)

All you crazy Windows users an try this out (but be prepared to be dissapointed if you think it will replace p----shop) here.

Virtual desktops

[myzz]

The is no need for MDI, when you have virtual desktops - the virtual desktop itself is the one big window, where the Gimp windows will sit. The virtual desktop solution is also more flexible - you may put some other apps windows to the same desktop as Gimp ones, when you find it useful and the Window Manager can be configured to behave as you like. Only on Windows it is useful to have one big maximized window with small ones inside it, since it doesn't have the virtual desktops.

Re:Is it time.. . . [a bit OT]

[kelnos]

The lack of MDI is typical of Gnome apps. Now that I'm accustomed to Gnome it doesn't bother me.

that's interesting. i guess we just have different usage patterns - i absolutely _despise_ the MDI model that apps like photoshop impose, as most of the time the only natural way to work with them is to maximise the window, thus blocking out everything else i have on that particular desktop. it's not so bad for, say, a tabbed text editor, but when you have an app like the gimp that has several ancillary windows that you need to refer to often to use the app (the main toolbox, layer window, tool options windows), you need more screen real estate to handle these items. and when they all have to be contained within a single large rectangular container, you lose the option of having a funny-shaped container which leaves open 'holes' into which you can see the rest of your desktop workspace.

i dunno, just a personal preference. but from the interface point of view, i'd pick gimp over photoshop any day. i still agree, however, that there are several aspects to the gimp UI that aren't terribly intuitive. and photoshop certainly still has an edge in features (tho not being a graphics-savvy person, the gimp is more than sufficient for my needs).

Two editing styles

[digitect]

As I sit here reading comments, I'm struck by the two conflicting desires of the posters:

1. MDI v. window manager
2. Window mouse-clicking/virtual workspace-swapping v. Alt+Tab/Window list mouse-clicking

Perhaps we're using GIMP two different ways.

It appears those that do not want MDI want to be able to arrange their windows around the desktop leaving little areas to peer through to other apps in the background. This group likes to use the mouse to focus windows and may enjoy being able to swap to another workspace to preserve this environment.

Others of us (myself included) sometimes do graphics professionally for days straight at a time. We're in the environment 10-12 hours and may have 20-50 image windows open in one session, maybe 500 a day. (Such as when producing icons, or bullets, or thumbnails, etc.) In this case, having to select objects by visual means is almost impossible. There are enough windows to completely obstruct the background with frames alone. And who on earth would actually go to the trouble to physically arrange them all?! Instead, we prefer a single Alt+Tab or mouse click on the window list to switch away, and another to return to the graphic application environment. The MDI has it's own window list which aids in having to decide between different names and other applications in the same list. It also has its own separate Ctrl+Tab key combination to page between them.

I guess I'm tired of seeing the flames. Can't the developers simply acknowldege that there is more than one way to look at the UI and add the simple option to have MDI? Or is it really not that simple? Perhaps not. Is that why the option is being avoided?

Re:Two editing styles

[IamTheRealMike]

I guess I'm tired of seeing the flames. Can't the developers simply acknowldege that there is more than one way to look at the UI and add the simple option to have MDI? Or is it really not that simple? Perhaps not. Is that why the option is being avoided?

Your problem is solved by virtual desktops. MDI is not supported by most windowing systems that Gimp is run on (X, Quartz) .. in fact only Win32 does support it. MDI is a hack that doesn't allow you to use standard windowing widgets like the window list to switch between them. It's hard to implement. It's a limitless source of bugs. It's got terrible usability - even Microsoft doesn't use it anymore.

In short, if you want to have many windows open at once and manage them all, use virtual desktops - use many of them, if you like. Have each image you are working with on a different desktop. I've done this and found it works nicely, much better than MDI ever did.