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News from Mars

Posted by CmdrTaco on from the it-just-keeps-coming dept.

An anonymous reader writes "While the Beagle 2 may have been gobbled up by Mars--Eater of Spacecraft, the main part of the ESA's recent Mars mission is doing well. The Mars Express Orbiter has sent back some amazing pictures of The Grand Canyon of Mars (Valles Marineris). Yes, this is the same gigantic geological feature that was missed by Mariner 4, 6, and 7 but finally found by Mariner 9. In other news, the Spirit rover is getting ready to grind the rock Adirondack (picture)."

35 of 258 comments (clear)

  1. Image mirror by BWJones · · Score: 4, Informative

    The ESA site appears to be getting quite slow. A mirror of the large image of Valles Marineris is here.

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    1. Re:Image mirror by BWJones · · Score: 5, Funny

      Another one here, just in case.

      In case of what? This workstation hosting the image is running OS X. :-)

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  2. Re:Mars? by Aardpig · · Score: 4, Funny

    Is it good or is it not so good?

    That's 'whack', not 'not so good', YOU INSENSITIVE CLOD!

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  3. I'm getting ready to grind the rock too by corebreech · · Score: 5, Funny

    I just don't take pictures or issue press releases. Probably best that way.

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  4. OMG... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    OMG... that rock is like, a pyramid! I wonder what secrets it holds?!

  5. Press release is kind of funny... by JMZero · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...featuring famous landmarks on the surface of Mars 'as seen through European eyes'...

    I thank those noble European eyes that were sacrificed in order to make this European mission Euro-possible.

    It's ironic. By so blatantly highlighting the Euro-ticity of this mission, they sound very American.

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    1. Re:Press release is kind of funny... by Puls4r · · Score: 5, Funny

      Thank you for pointing that out. I was waiting for someone to do it - and you did in a much better way than I could of. Seems like the ESA has a serious case of American Penis Envy. Scratch that. The whole damn EU seems to have it. Why does every clipping have to mention how they are doing it "better" than Americans are..... Yeah ok. I wonder if I can find a part of Mars no one has mapped, look at it with my Telescope, then make some grandiose statement about how the ESA's piece of shit probe missed this or that particular feature.......

    2. Re:Press release is kind of funny... by Dark+Lord+Seth · · Score: 4, Funny

      Mars, as seen through various eyes:

      European: Look! We've boldly gone where the Americans have gone before!

      Chinese: Look! Maybe we can mine it an populate it just to piss of the americans!

      American: Look! It doesn't have a McDonalds! NUKE IT!

      Trekkie: Look! We're going to build a planet based space dock there!

      Conspiracy theorist: Look! That's where the aliens are! They're just using their invisibility rays!

      Slashbot: FIRST LOOK!

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  6. Spirit not that impressive...? by troon · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Check out Lunokhod, two Russian moon rovers from the early 1970s that drove around for months.

    Not to bring down the Spirit guys or their great work, but their talk of pioneering 30cm moves sound a bit dull compared with Lunokhod, or the Pathfinder. Also look at the Russian Venera probes that managed to return images from the surface of Venus, at temperatures hot enough to melt lead and pressures of 90 bar.

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    1. Re:Spirit not that impressive...? by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Informative

      Check out Lunokhod, two Russian moon rovers from the early 1970s that drove around for months. Not to bring down the Spirit guys or their great work, but their talk of pioneering 30cm moves sound a bit dull compared with Lunokhod.....

      Lunokhod had the advantage of a 2-second message turnaround time instead of the approx. 20 minutes one gets from Mars. Thus, Lunokhod did not have to carry a brain of any kind. Spirit can travel quite a distance on its own, making navigation decisions if one lets it. However, they are being cautious at this point in the mission. They are likely to get braver toward the end of the mission when there is less to lose.

      Lunokhod was just a RC car more or less. But still a bold craft for its time. I read that it took 5 guys to drive it.

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    2. Re:Spirit not that impressive...? by QuantumFTL · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not to bring down the Spirit guys or their great work, but their talk of pioneering 30cm moves sound a bit dull compared with Lunokhod, or the Pathfinder.

      Oh come on, you can't compare a an ancient real-time controlled rover like Lunokhod to an autonomous, self-navigating rover like Spirit. Spirit could easily run around all over the place if a human were driving it, that's not the challenge. The challenge is the navigation and safety aspects, and without a human controlling it one has to be very conservative.

      Also remember that sunlight is much dimmer out on Mars than it is on the moon, adn the gravity is higher, thus speeds tend to be slower.

      And as for pathfinder, the rover had almost no science instrumentation, and it got stuck.

      I know comparing apples and oranges is a slashdot favorite, but please don't put down an engineering triumph because you don't understand the differences in mission parameters!

      Cheers,
      Justin Wick
      Science Activity Planner Developer
      Mars Exploration Rovers

    3. Re:Spirit not that impressive...? by mikerich · · Score: 4, Informative
      I think another major difference, was that Lunokhod was nuclear powered as opposed to solar/battery.

      Solar powered, there were solar cells under the lid. It used a polonium 210 source to keep it warm during the 14 (Earth) day long lunar night.

      Since at least one Lunokhod failed to make Earth orbit (February 1969) that means a lot of one of the nastiest radioisotopes known to man came raining back to Earth.

      Best wishes,
      Mike.

    4. Re:Spirit not that impressive...? by QuantumFTL · · Score: 5, Informative

      Is it true that spirit makes use of Java? Or does only the "client" software used to control it,use Java.

      Much software ON THE GROUND at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory is written in Java, but not software on the spacecraft.

      I wrote some of the software used for the mission in Java, and it worked very well for our purposes, namely due to platform independence and quick development time. We had a heck of a time with some of the GUI code, however.

      The rover runs VxWorks from Wind River. Very solid. Cheers,
      Justin Wick
      Science Activity Planner Developer
      Mars Exploration Rovers

    5. Re:Spirit not that impressive...? by ScottMaxwell · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Also remember that sunlight is much dimmer out on Mars than it is on the moon, adn the gravity is higher, thus speeds tend to be slower.

      And why is sunlight a limiting factor? Because, for political reasons, we couldn't put an RTG (radioactive power source) on the rovers. That leaves us with solar only, which is what leads to the limited speed and the limited vehicle lifetime. If we could fly an RTG on Spirit, we could make it last for years. Maybe we'll be able to do that with a future mission.

      As it is, I think we've done pretty well: we're going to drive a 384kg rover a kilometer (or more) and operate it for three months on just about the amount of energy it takes to power two light bulbs (~140W peak). And we're going to do it again with Opportunity, starting in just a few days.

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    6. Re:Spirit not that impressive...? by mikerich · · Score: 5, Informative
      The Russians sent, what, 9 probes to Mars in the 70s as well -- only one survived. And only for a few seconds at that.

      I make it seven.

      1. Kosmos 419 (May 1971). Mars orbiter intended to beat Mariner 8 to the planet. It reached Earth orbit but the booster failed to restart, it re-entered the Earth's atmosphere a few days later. The only positive point is that it did get further than Mariner 8 which ended up in the Atlantic.
      2. Mars 2 (May 1971) . Mars orbiter and lander. Reached Mars and deployed lander which entered the Martian atmosphere at the wrong angle and crashed. The orbiter successfully returned data for three months.
      3. Mars 3 (May 1971). The twin of Mars 2. The probe succesfully deployed the lander which touched down on Mars - the first craft to do so. Data was returned from the surface for 20 seconds - the reason for the failure is unknown - either the probe was toppled by a raging storm or there was a failure with the uplink to the orbiter. (The same storm delayed the return of images from the US's Mariner 9 orbiter). The Mars 3 orbiter failed to enter the correct Martian orbit and was put into a highly elliptical orbit. It returned data for almost three months.
      4. Mars 4 (July 1973). A Mars orbiter intended to serve as part of a fleet of four ships. It was damaged by radiation on the voyage to Mars and failed to fire its retro engine. The orbiter passed by Mars, taking some pictures of an astonishingly high quality (better than those obtained by the US to the time) and performed some work on the Martian atmosphere.
      5. Mars 5 (July 1973). The twin of Mars 4, but this one entered an orbit around the planet. It returned surface images before after less than a month. Again the images were superb.
      6. Mars 6 (August 1973). A heavy lander intended to use Mars 4 and 5 as relays to Earth. It entered the Martian atmosphere and relayed data to Earth during the descent. It is believed the retro rockets failed to fire and it smashed into the surface at high speed. Nevertheless, the Soviets were the first to make measurements of the Martian atmosphere, sadly much of the data was badly mangled during transmission.
      7. Mars 7 (August 1973) The twin of Mars 6, but this one didn't even land on Mars. For some reason the lander was ejected from the bus stage far too early and it missed the planet. Both stages went into solar orbit, neither returned any data.

      So a pretty depressing story for the Soviets (especially compared to their successes on Venus), it has been suggested that a good number of the failures were caused by solar radiation eating away the microchips in the probes causing them to die or malfunction. Certainly when you think of the longer flight times to Mars than to Venus it appears to suggest that it was something going on in-flight that caused the failures.

      Having said that, they did achieve some successes and I can only imagine the elation of Mars 3's controllers when they started getting that first grainy image of the Martian surface - only for it to suddenly stop.

      Best wishes,
      Mike.

    7. Re:Spirit not that impressive...? by ScottMaxwell · · Score: 5, Informative
      Is it true that spirit makes use of Java? Or does only the "client" software used to control it,use Java. Does it have an OS and if so which/or what type? Does it use a RTOS or Linux or a BSD?

      We do use Java to write the rover command sequences. I wrote the software, RoSE (the Rover Sequence Editor), that we use for that; RoSE was also used to command both spacecraft in cruise.

      RoSE is part of a suite called RSVP, the rest of which does 3-D visualization, simulation, and playback. Our 3-D stuff is very, very cool (I feel OK about saying this because I didn't write that part :-): we do kinematic simulations as the rover drives across the terrain; you can see it articulate realistically. If you've watched the press conferences, you've probably seen one of our playbacks. That visualization stuff is all in C and C++, though, not Java.

      Java is also used upstream of RSVP, to do image browsing and to plan science goals for the sol. That's Maestro's role.

      The rovers themselves run VxWorks, a well-known real-time Unix variant that's used a lot here at JPL.

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    8. Re:Spirit not that impressive...? by ScottMaxwell · · Score: 3, Informative
      RoSE is part of a suite called RSVP, the rest of which does 3-D visualization, simulation, and playback. Our 3-D stuff is very, very cool (I feel OK about saying this because I didn't write that part :-): we do kinematic simulations as the rover drives across the terrain; you can see it articulate realistically. If you've watched the press conferences, you've probably seen one of our playbacks. That visualization stuff is all in C and C++, though, not Java.

      I should clarify that RSVP as a whole is used to write the rover command sequences now that we're in surface ops, not just RoSE. RSVP provides a visual editing environment for command sequences, so that you can (for instance) mark a spot in the virtual 3-D world and tell the rover to go there. This adds a command to the sequence just as if it had been added in RoSE.

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      ``Life results from the non-random survival of randomly varying replicators.'' -- Richard Dawkins
    9. Re:Spirit not that impressive...? by ScottMaxwell · · Score: 4, Informative
      Why only 3 months? Do the solar panels become too damaged to generate electricity or is the battery toasted or what? Just curious.

      There are several problems, some of which interrelate. You touched on a couple of them. Things that I can think of offhand:

      • Dust builds up on the solar panels, and they stop generating (enough) power. The developers experimented with various mechanisms to avoid dust buildup and/or to remove the dust, but never got anything satisfactory. Perhaps a future mission will have some fix for this; Spirit and Opportunity will tell us more about the properties of Mars's dust, which may help.
      • The batteries can be cycled only so many times before they stop working.
      • Mars gets farther and farther from the sun (which also starts to move north in the sky), further reducing the amount of solar power available.
      • As the available energy declines, the rover has a harder and harder time storing up enough energy to keep itself warm at night. Eventually, the internal components are subjected to sufficient cold that they fail. (Interesting fact: the rover parts that most need to be kept warm live in its main body, that shiny gold box. It's called the WEB, or Warm Electronics Box, for that reason.)
      • There are limits on the lifetime of the rover's motors.
      • This is unlikely to be a limiting factor, but radiation may destroy vital electronic and computer components.

      There are probably many other conditions; I'm not a hardware guy. I just drive 'em. :-) Per my original point, most of the problems can be mitigated by using RTGs, though some would have to be attacked in other ways.

      Spirit and Opportunity will not reach sol 90 and immediately shut down, of course. Instead, they will slowly degrade, like a human body entering old age. It will be a matter of morbid curiosity to see what goes first. It makes me sad to think about it.

      --

      ``Life results from the non-random survival of randomly varying replicators.'' -- Richard Dawkins
  7. Adirondack? by twoslice · · Score: 3, Funny
    grind the rock Adirondack

    Since when did NASA scientists stop calling rocks after cartoon characters. The last visit to Mars we had Scoobydoo, Popeye and Barnicle Bill. Those names were really scientific sounding too...

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  8. From NASA with Love... by JoeLinux · · Score: 3, Funny

    How sweet!

    I was bored....

    JoeLinux

  9. Re:Mars environment by CGP314 · · Score: 3, Funny

    I am lazy(don't want to google), but I also thought it would be interesting for other people to know. But what is the envirnoment like on Mars? Oxygen? Gravity? High/Low temps? etc..

    Here is the last two lines of your post entered in google, except with `environment' spelled right, you lazy bastard.


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  10. Re:Mars environment by Stud1y · · Score: 4, Informative

    temp is between 5-15 degree's celsius. here's a fact sheet, i tried to post it here but it said there as too many "JUNK" characters... fact sheet here

  11. Re:ESA is not very clever. by morcheeba · · Score: 4, Informative

    If you fly lower, you'll make more orbits per day, making the images zip past the camera even faster. With a pushbroom-type sensor such as this appears to be, this can actually lead to worse resolution in the direction of travel. But, being closer would make the perpindicular direction a little better -- it's all about compromises.

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  12. euro != uk by Rhubarb+Crumble · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I thank those noble European eyes that were sacrificed in order to make this European mission Euro-possible.

    It's ironic. By so blatantly highlighting the Euro-ticity of this mission, they sound very American.

    I think you're missing the point. I think it's a dig at the UK, who hogged all the publicity with the (UK-built) Beagle lander, which then turned out to be a turkey. This is them pointing out that the rest of the mission, designed on the "continent", works just fine.

    Remember that, especially in the UK, the "opposite" of european isn't american, it's british. "Fog in channel, continent cut off" and all that.

  13. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 5, Informative

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  14. Re:Ah yes... The MAIN mision... by VdG · · Score: 5, Informative

    No. Mars Express was always the main mission.

    Beagle 2 was a last-minute afterthought, built in a hurry, on a shoestring. It also had a very limited mass-budget, so that it could piggy-back on the same launcher.

  15. Mars ate Beagle 2.... by tUrBzY · · Score: 3, Funny

    and now Beagle 1 is eating up our computers!

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    --tUrBzY
  16. Mars Mission... by BigJimSlade · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...the most expensive computer wallpaper generating space mission ever.

  17. Re:Fake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    The top part of the picture is the actual image. The part along the bottom is a 3D rendering of what it would look like to a low-flying plane.

    You can see both images seperately on this page.

  18. Re:Grind a rock in Arizona desert by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Informative

    if the purpose of these landers is to discover water or traces, why didnt they land at the poles where some people are convinced there is water instead of landing in the middle of a desert

    They are there to solve a mystery, not just find water. The crater area of the landing site LOOKS likes like it used to be a lake because it is filled in like a dry lake and because it has (now-dry) river-like channels flowing into it. What made the channels? If Mars used to contain large lakes near the equator, that is an important find. It could mean that Mars was once more Earthlike.

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  19. I hope they have audio gear! by CaptCanuk · · Score: 4, Funny

    I hope they have audio gear on that expensive digital camera just in case that rock says "Owww! Stop grinding me!"

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  20. Re:Taking bets now by sharkey · · Score: 3, Funny

    All they did was paint the Moon set from the '60s red, and are taking pictures as we speak.

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  21. Re:Ah yes... The MAIN mision... by Tonytheloony · · Score: 4, Informative

    ok... since some people still seem convinced that beagle 2 was the main point of the misson, check this news release from ESA dating back to 1998 where they endorse the initial mars express payload:
    News release
    No mention of beagle 2. "Possibility left open of a small lander"...

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  22. Re:Speed by dekashizl · · Score: 3, Informative
    From Athena Science RAT Technical Briefing:
    The RAT is a diamond-tipped grinding tool capable of removing a cylindrical area 4.5 cm in diameter and at least 0.5 cm deep from the outer surface of a rock. This operation takes about 2 hours for a dense basalt.

    From NASA/JPL info on Rover and wheels:
    The rover has a top speed on flat hard ground of 5 centimeters (2 inches) per second. However, in order to ensure a safe drive, the rover is equipped with hazard avoidance software that causes the rover to stop and reassess its location every few seconds. So, over time, the vehicle achieves an average speed of 1 centimeter per second.

    So moving one meter takes very roughly ~100 seconds (about a minute and a half). Grinding takes roughly two hours. But grinding is just grinding, and you still would want to do some science after that. Also consider that moving will generally be interrupted by other delays such as taking photos. Check the link in the sig below for all kinds of info and links on this type of stuff.

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  23. How about pictures of the old Viking probe? by MongooseCN · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Didn't this rover land near the old Viking probe sent down in the 70's? How about sending the rover off on it's last mission to get a picture of the Viking Probe? NASA could see how the probe has held up all these years. NASA would also get mad props too. :)

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