Currency Detection Discovered in More Products

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Currency Detection Discovered in More Products

Posted by CmdrTaco on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @07:12AM from the plot-thickens dept.

netbsd_fan writes "BUGTRAQ is reporting that anti-counterfeiting spyware is being found in more and more products. What is also interesting is that these products block fair uses of currency images which do not break the law. What incentive do printer manufacturers have to treat their customers like criminals? Is this a precursor to DRM in scanners, CD drives, and output devices?"

22 of 677 comments (clear)

Min score:

Reason:

Sort:

it's a test... by dirtyboot · 2004-01-20 07:13 · Score: 5, Insightful

It's actually just a test for the true roll-out, which will prevent the reproduction and distribution of the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
1. Re:it's a test... by Jucius+Maximus · 2004-01-20 07:28 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  I don't know if this is too new. One guy living in England told some me years ago that you can't photocopy currency on photocopiers. They just come out black.
  
  In all honesty, I think that something like this is a bad idea because it relieves governments of the responsibility of making currency that is hard to counterfeit. Sooner or later, someone hardcore (probably a crime ring) with their own equipment will come along and duplicate poorly designed currency, making a whole bunch of fake currency that is undetectable.
  
  This is the same as what's going on with the DMCA. People are afraid to reveal vulnerabilities they have found in software so the things go unpatched, and then someone with a very evil agenda will come along exploit the problems that were not fixed due to silly restrictions.
  
  The 'release now, patch later' doctrine is widely used in software ... but I would not want to see it applied in something like currency.
2. Re:it's a test... by Short+Circuit · 2004-01-20 07:51 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  I agree that it's a bad idea, but I disagree why. I don't like the idea of software I pay for not doing what I instruct it to do.
  
  From a government (and a practical) standpoint, however, it's a good idea. After all, when solving any problem, two prongs are better than one.
  
  --
  tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
3. Re:it's a test... by Safety+Cap · 2004-01-20 08:15 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  ~ you can't photocopy currency on photocopiers. They just come out black.
  That is an urban legend.
  My first job while in High School was working at a print shop. After hours, the printer (this 1,000 year old man who knew...everything about printing) would show me how to do all kinds of things. One day we made red one-dollar bills (so that if somehow we got caught, we'd only get 5 years instead of 20 :)) to see if we could do it. What we came up with was very close, and considering that we used last-century's technology, very impressive. After the experiment was over, we burned the results.
  If you want to get going with a major operation, you'd need plates (a home printer/professional printer can't get the fine dots that you get from plates) and a good supply of the special rag bond they use. The most important thing, and the hardest to reproduce, is the seal where they imprint two colors (green and black) in the same spot. Now with the watermark and embedded strip, you'd need to treat the paper to get those features before you printed the image.
  EVEN EASIER: (I've seen this happen several times) Take a twenty and a ten. Rip the short edges off (the part that has the denomination numbers) and swap. Now your bill with 70% ten and 30% twenty is a twenty. Take the rest of the twenty to the bank to get a new one (as long as it is 51%+, they'll do it), and use the franken-bill at a shop for $20 worth of goods!
  
  --
  Yeah, right.
4. Re:it's a test... by ePhil_One · 2004-01-20 08:35 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  But its new to the Slashdot home page, which makes it current and exciting news. Besides, pointing out that Canon refered to this feature in their marketing materials for their color photocopiers 8 years ago makes it difficult to pin on the Patriot act.
  The reality is they are trying to remove the temptation from the casual counterfiter, cranking out a few cheezy twenties on the office copier to stretch their paycheck a few more beers. Most of these dumbasses are too stupid to realize they're commiting a serious fedral crime, and that often they are just waiting for you to cross that magical barrier that makes it a serious crime.
  Sorta like the clerks skimming twenties from the drawer thinking they are getting away with it when management is waiting for the $$ amount to hit the "felony" level, recording everything on videotape.
  
  --
  You are in a maze of twisted little posts, all alike.
note design changes by geoff+lane · 2004-01-20 07:14 · Score: 4, Insightful

what happens when the note design changes?
Nothing new by Uber+Banker · 2004-01-20 07:14 · Score: 3, Insightful

What is also interesting is that these products block fair uses of currency images which do not break the law.

Just like most machines, they will minimise the chance of taking a fake rather than maximising not refecting a non-fake. They probably have some kind of level of statistical signigicance of 'error' they are happy with. New tech is not fool-proof tech.
Spyware? Wrong term I think. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-20 07:16 · Score: 4, Insightful

Is this software/hardware reporting back to someone that you're trying to duplicate currency? I doubt it, so it's likely not spyware. The incentive they have is simply to help the government fight counterfeit currency. Do you want your goods to be purchased with fake money? I don't.
Preemptive Obedience by Rhubarb+Crumble · 2004-01-20 07:19 · Score: 5, Insightful

The Germans have a phrase for this sort of thing - "Preemptive Obedience". Question is, who are they obeying, and why? Colour photocopiers have been around for ages and photocopies of banknotes haven't been a huge problem so far. So what's new?
Maybe this is another example of the kind of initiative that bureaucrats dream up all the time and usual get binned immediately, but are nowadays somehow seeing the light of day due to some "homeland security" paranoia. Like telling airline customers not to queue for the toilets in planes or whatever.
Who is serving whom? by Dutchmaan · 2004-01-20 07:24 · Score: 4, Insightful

We seem to be crossing the barrier from capturing and prosecuting criminals to restraining the general populace in order to protect the status quo institution...

At what point does the government go from serving the wishes of the people to the people serving the wishes of the government?

Take a good and careful look.. this is erosion of freedom at work... Sure maybe it's small and relatively painless.. but then, that's why they call it erosion,
mountains and molehills by circletimessquare · 2004-01-20 07:26 · Score: 3, Insightful

drm will affect millions of computer users in myriad ways: drm is seriously scary

not being able to copy your $20 bill will affect what... 5 avant garde artists?: yawm

--
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Re:note design changes (anticounterfeit mania) by G4from128k · 2004-01-20 07:32 · Score: 5, Insightful

I wonder if more images will incorporate these anticounterfeiting circles? CD covers, web photos, and books could all incorporate this simple design.

What happens if someone puts the circle design on their webpage images? Does this prevent printing, copying, etc. web images?

Circle mania could get very interesting.

--
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
Re:This = good by randomdef · 2004-01-20 07:33 · Score: 3, Insightful

This comes across as total bullshit to me. a 14 year old makes a shit copy of a bill and his teachers, parents, judges and lawyers and etc cannot come up with a better solution then to lock the kid up for 7 years? did he set someone on fire in the process or are you just outright lying?

come on, even in this post 9/11 age we arent locking kids up forever for stupid kid mistakes.
"Do not copy" symbol by Animats · 2004-01-20 07:39 · Score: 5, Insightful

What happens if someone puts the circle design on their webpage images? Does this prevent printing, copying, etc. web images?
Effectively, there's now a standard symbol for "do not copy". It needs to be better publicized, but it's out there. Soon we'll see it on everything.
1. Re:"Do not copy" symbol by tepples · 2004-01-20 07:52 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  There has always been such a symbol:
  
  . . SYMB0L. . . SY. . . MB. 0L. . SYMB. 0L SY. MB. . . 0L SY. MB. . . 0L SY. . MB0L. SY . MB. . . 0L. . . SYMB0L. .
  
  dumb lameness filter...
2. Re:"Do not copy" symbol by adrianbaugh · 2004-01-20 08:15 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  So can you get copier paper with this symbol in a watermark? It seems that would be an excellent way for companies to make it significantly harder for confidential memos (etc.) to be photocopied and leaked to business rivals or the press.
  
  --
  "'I pass the test,' she said. 'I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel.'"
  - JRR Tolkien.
Actually, YOU report in... by temojen · 2004-01-20 07:45 · Score: 4, Insightful

Suddenly, the expensive printer in your office starts printing every image (but not text) in fluorescent green. It has plenty of magenta toner, plain paper, a surge suppressor, etc. It's having the same problem with both Windows and BSD or Linux computers, so you know it's not a driver issue.

So, what do you do?

You call tech support to find out you need to do a firmware upgrade, remove the network card, turn the printer off & back on, while holding a button, turn it off, replace the network card, turn it back on, and calibrate it 3 times.

Have this same trouble ticket a few times and I bet they'll notify the RCMP, MI-6, FBI, or whatever it is in your country.

All because someone at your office was "playing" with a new logo design, that happens to include a scanned image of the "great pyramid" on the US dollar bill.
Wrong signals by unoengborg · 2004-01-20 07:54 · Score: 3, Insightful

If people gets used to that law is something that is guarded by technical devices and not by moral and ethical standards of the citizens, we are on a very dangerous path. If peple are forced to follow they will find ways to break it, just for the feeling of freedom it would create.

--
God is REAL! Unless explicitly declared INTEGER
Re:Oh grow up by Mr+Guy · 2004-01-20 08:03 · Score: 5, Insightful

Boy you are going to get the IP police on you about this one.

Downloading MP3's is NOT a federal crime, for very many reasons.

1) It pisses me off when people leave out the words "without distribution permission". I know why people do it, but the net result is it allows people to label an entire class of LEGAL activity as being shady. For example, absolutely nothing stops me from recording my wife singing, encoding it in the MP3 format, and sharing it. There are plenty of bands (insert rant about commercialized music and better alternatives) that have authorized distribution. MP3 != stolen

2) It's not a federal crime. It's a violated contract. These are civil court infractions, not federal violations.

3) The difference between a civil dispute and a federal crime is quite large. As in the difference between at most a fine and years of jail time.

The parent poster was absolutely right. People forget what a REAL crime it is and ruin their whole lives. You'd honestly be better off stealing a candy bar than forging a $5 to pay for it.

--
Never confuse volume with power.
Re:All ready slow! by Total_Wimp · 2004-01-20 08:26 · Score: 4, Insightful

That's what makes using DRM (which this is, basically) vs. using open source such a battle. You can't simultaneously have modifiable source code and un-modifiable DRM.

Possibility 1: Because open source flourishes, DRM will be marginalized.

Possibility 2: Because DRM flourishes, open source will be marginalized.

Possibility 3: There is no possibility 3. One or the other is going to be slowly die down to irrelevance. Right now open source actually seems to be winning. I hope it stays that way.

TW
Re:So What? by hopeless+case · 2004-01-20 08:48 · Score: 5, Insightful

The problem isn't that this is stopping people from printing images of currency, but that it is establishing the principle that it is ok for the government to require programmers to put crime detection / phone home features in their software.

Do you see the problem now?

The "right" being infringed here is very close to speech. The right to write/run software of your own choosing without having to ask the government if it is ok first.

You would consider it a big deal if the government required you to get their approval before publishing an article you had written, wouldn't you?

The phrase prior-restraint comes to mind.
Re:Is it? by poot_rootbeer · 2004-01-20 09:06 · Score: 4, Insightful

Say it with me everyone: THE DMCA WAS SIGNED IN 1998 BY YOUR BOY BILL CLINTON.

Now YOU escuche y repita:

JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE DISLIKES GEORGE W. BUSH DOES NOT MEAN THAT BILL CLINTON IS "THEIR BOY".